Warren on GERG (i.e. Better than last year)
For those of you who don't (at least partially) blame Shafer for our horrid defense last year... Maybe Warren can add some insight...
Michigan DBs helped by Robinson's system
August 3, 2009 10:15 AM
Posted by ESPN.com's Adam Rittenberg
As the last line of defense, Michigan's cornerbacks and safeties have a heightened sense of accountability.
There will be times this fall when Donovan Warren or one of his secondary mates either must make a play or watch six points go up on the scoreboard. But first-year defensive coordinator Greg Robinson has crafted a scheme that minimizes the plays when a defensive back gets left alone on an island.
After a season when Michigan's defense often felt deserted, it's a welcome change for Warren.
"Coach Robinson's all about playing to your help and not just playing your game alone," Warren said. "You have to play to your help. That's what defense is all about."
Warren, a true junior who enters his third season as a starter, will be playing in his third defensive scheme this fall. Fortunately, Robinson's system reminds him of the one employed by former coordinator and current Eastern Michigan coach Ron English, who remains very popular with veteran Wolverines defenders.
Like the rest of the team, Michigan's back four struggled last season, finishing ninth in the league in both pass defense (230 ypg) and interceptions (nine). Warren is one of the Big Ten's most-experienced cornerbacks, but he'll be surrounded by youth this fall. Michigan loses corner Morgan Trent and safety Brandon Harrison, and safety Stevie Brown has moved down to linebacker this fall.
"We have a lot of unproven guys and guys that haven't been on the field," Warren said.
If Robinson's system works correctly, Michigan's young players won't be feeling green too often.
"It's using your leverage and knowing where your help is and what guys can do to you in certain situations," Warren said. "Coach Robinson, he breaks it down so much more mentally, so you know what to expect."
August 4th, 2009 at 11:46 AM ^
the key to our defenses going forward. We control the line.... and pressure the QB, our LB's and DB's will shine. I believe we did not control LOS very well, and with poor Safety play.... our LB's and DB's did not have support they needed to succeed.... ie... Warren saying "playing to the help".
August 4th, 2009 at 11:46 AM ^
Warren being a Cornerback would obviously like to have help and not be on an island by himself. I am glad to hear that the schemes are reminicent of Ron English as I believe this to be a positive.
Nothing like a year of Shafer to cleanse the palette of the sour taste that English left in our mouths before RR came in.
August 4th, 2009 at 12:09 PM ^
where this is blamning shafer, warren was hurt most of last season, of course with a new season you are going to say that things are better...
ron english was great with the kids becasue he was a motivator, not becasue of his schemes...
continuing this "blame shafer" is getting pretty stupid... espically since robinson's 3-4 and his zone blitzes are a LOT like shafers...
not to mention the fact that shafer was all about leverage, and still is...
August 4th, 2009 at 12:29 PM ^
the minus point to me please?
not really sure what the minus and plus is all about...
about the different schemes...
RR said
Rodriguez said the addition of former Syracuse head coach Greg Robinson as Michigan’s new defensive coordinator has been a smooth transition. He said the changes from last year’s schemes run by Scott Shafer, will be “subtle.”
“Greg’s big improvement has been in his line of communication with the players and the rest of the staff,” Rodriguez said. “He’s done a great job.”
meaning he has more experience, and has the faith of the the other coaches.. still dont see where shafer is being blamned for anything...
kids are buying in to Robinson, thats great, he has a big time resume to fall back on...
August 4th, 2009 at 12:33 PM ^
First, I may be wrong, but I don't recall defensive players saying last season that things would be better.
Second, you are missing a major point of what Warren said - that Robinson explains things much better, makes his overall scheme a way of understanding defense rather than just a type of defensive scheme. Warren is saying that things will be better because of a better understanding in addition to different schemes, not just because of different schemes.
Third, within his statements is a comparison with last year, an implied comparison between Robinson with Shafer - with a more favorable opinion of Robinson, like it or not. But a making comparison does not automatically mean assigning blame.
EDIT: I assigned you neither + nor - points
August 4th, 2009 at 12:43 PM ^
of a player in a new system NOT saying that things were better this year than last...
the EXPLAINING is done by the position coaches, not the Dcordinator, who has very little contact on a day to day basis with players that he is not coaching directly.
im not sure on the whole implication thing, you are much smarter than I. but could it be that warren is trying to justifiy why he had a sub par season? if the corners and safeties and Lb's would have be able to play their responsiblities better last year, then shafer would have been able to do more of the things he had wanted to do, instead of trying to scramble to find ifanswers... also the position coches, who were not on board with shafer from the begining (why would they, some of them had better resumes than he did) had a lot to do with the problems of comunication break downs...
shafer is def. a great teacher of the game, something i have a little bit of knowledge about... but things just didnt go right last year.
August 4th, 2009 at 12:52 PM ^
the entire season last year which is why he was sub par. He didn't need to make something up about Shafer. You may like Shafer and that is fine, to each his own, but in terms of a DC at UM last season it was a monumental flop. No debating that.
debating that...
last year was bad, but shafer was caught in the middle of a lot of things that he shouldnt have had to deal with...
im not saying your an idiot for thinking otherwise, nor am i belittling your opinion, i would appreciate the same...
he isnt making up anything..
i would hope he would say that this year is going to be different...
August 4th, 2009 at 12:57 PM ^
I think your overarching point about a breakdown of the whole system, of communication and relationships, is a key to understanding what happened, and correlates with RR's emphasis on finding a replacement who would get along with the other staff and bring everyone together. Which correlates with his praise of Robinson as having done that.
I agree, last year there was a system-wide breakdown that perhaps had its genesis in the communication (or lack thereof) among staff and among staff and players - rather than in the quality of a defensive scheme. Contexts are created through relationships among people, and perhaps Shafer is a good teacher, just not in the relationship-created context he was in.
pretty good at teaching his schemes at wmu, and stanford...
and was a hell of a secondary coach at ill.
it just takes a couple of years, and commitment to implement a new defensive philosphy... espically comming in off the heels of a hugely popular dc like english was to his players...
he just didnt mesh with RR's guys, and thats fine...
i think he would have been successfull eventually at michigan.
Grob has a lot more expereience in comming into new situations, and sometimes you need someone with a bit of a resume to convince kids that you are for real...
if robinson has a bunch of success this year, it will be becasue of his players nto becasue of his new schemes, which are pretty standard.
August 4th, 2009 at 12:57 PM ^
see how things turn our for Shaffer and Syracuse and GRob for Michigan.
I see your point that obviously Warren (and all D players) will speak positively about the new coach, especially after a sub-par year as a Defensive Unit.
I believe that RR said Warren was actually injured for much of the season and toughed it out, so he wasn't at 100%. I'm sure Shaffer knew this and adjusted accordingly (it's not like we have/ had a stable of great DBs).
I did notice is that Shafer had the CBs playing 10 yards off the opposing WRs last year. I recall this happening on short yardage situations last year, i.e. 3rd and 5. I remember pulling my hair out, yelling at the tv, "why are the corners 10 yards off!?" This was, of course, followed by a 5 yard pass and a first down. The corners were put into these positions, positions to fail, and I found that "gameplan" to be ridiculous. This happened multiple times and I guarantee the corners were told to play off and not "up" on the receivers. I won't argue any other points since I feel they've been discussed accurately, but felt I had to bring this up.
corners are deep players...
but early in the year corners were playing tight, and were getting burnt, espically when the safeties were late...
shafer had to abandon a lot of his schemes as players were not able to perform the tasks...
However...
And I'm NOT blaming him, but is it not also the DC's job to come up with a scheme that his players are actually capable of executing?
Or was there just NO hope whatsoever for our defense last year?
Can you tell us what the defensive players last year were capable of executing?
They suck playing press coverage. They suck playing 10 yards off. What's the option that works?
They seemed to me to suck equally at all coverages. They did not discriminate.
I just find it odd that he seemingly had the talent to run his defenses at WMU (and Stanford), but not at Michigan.
thats why shafer ad to change a lot of what he was doing.. that and the fact that it takes time to install a zone blitzing pressure man scheme....
if i blame shafer for anything its for not sticking to his guns and loosing faith in his stuff when things got rough.. things got rough anyway, might as well do your thing, unless of course he was forced out of his thing by his staff and RR..
Especially when you consider that the offense continued to stick by the spread (when it clearly didn't have all the correct personnel pieces in place), and maybe even started to show some improvement towards the end of the year.
i thought i was the only dude yelling at the screen for someone anyone to play closr the the line whenwe had them at 3rd and 5 and no one is within 10 freiken yds. maybe shafer felt he didn't have the talent to put some one on the line in case they got juked and then ran for a big play, but a 1st down is still more time spent on D. that's why i think the improved offense should help as much as anything.
is that Greg Robinson has been intensely studying game film from last year and learning. He needs to understand better than anyone where things went terribly wrong on D and where things were right. Then devise defensive schemes and coach up players as best as possible to shore up those problem areas. The D needs to be substantially better this year. Part of that will come with (hopefully) being on the field less.
this is from Maize n' Brew's media day summaries:
Switching to the 3-4 Defense Rodriguez said that Michigan will run a base 3-4 but also play some 4-3. The switch to the 3-4 is partially to counter the spread nature of the new offenses that the Big Ten is shifting to, but also on the recommendation of Greg Robinson, his new DC. When Robinson came in, Rodriguez told us that he did a thorough evaluation of the players, depth, and positions. Robinson then came to Rodriguez and said "This is what I have, strengths and weaknesses. Let's put in a package that fits them." As a result, Michigan is implementing the 3-4.EDIT: here's the link http://www.maizenbrew.com/2009/8/3/973706/big-ten-media-days-the-take-a…
is why michigan ran a lot of 3-4 okie last year, even though he is a 4-3 guy, that looks a lot like robinsons 3-4 that has been identified (mistakenly) for a 4-3 under
Some idiot gave gsimmons a ( -1 ) for this? Seriously, this sort of idiocy is going to drive the knowledgeable commenters from the board.
Stop dissing someone just because you may not like their position; what he stated was not exactly arguable.
Actually Gerg has clearly said he sees no reason to evaluate last years film because that isnt his defense nor his players. Some of those players left so a lot what he could be seeing is going to be moot because the personel is now different. He has stated that he is constantly studying spring film for hours on end. Apparently some of his players have walked into his office to tell him to stop working because that is all he does is watch game film and take notes. Im an insider so i cant give any links.
Keep this inside info coming. Thats what makes this board special.
Yeah, he has been watching a ton of film of the Spring Game. But how do you explain that he said after watching last years game films, that he said Mouton was the best LB we had last year?
i've read somewhere (maybe here) that that is excactly what he has been doing. he hasn't been out there recruiting so that he can watch film.
August 4th, 2009 at 12:14 PM ^
I heard that Scott Shafer hobbled Donovan Warren with a sledgehammer and a woodblock before the first game.
He also forced Stevie Brown to do whippits and sprayed mace into Obi Ezeh's face.
That would explain what he was doing during all that time he wasn't teaching them how to play defense.
Stevie Brown to whippit...wait, wait, my bad. I'm thinking of Larry Harrison, Jr.
August 4th, 2009 at 12:16 PM ^
I've read where a couple of guys have said that what they're doing now reminds them of what they did under English. I think this is good simply for the fact that they sound pretty familiar w/ what they're doing. Obviously we'll all be looking for more success against the spread than they had w/ English...
August 4th, 2009 at 12:28 PM ^
overall, I like this perspective. In regards to English and his scheme's inablility to stop the spread, I think that as our offensive players get better at running the spread the defense will inevitably become better at stoping the spread (they will see it every freaking day in practice). I would imagine it was hard to prepare for Dennis Dixon when we had steve threat/Nick Sheridan living the dream as a spread option scout team quarterback
August 4th, 2009 at 12:34 PM ^
I agree. But I also think the defense is getting a facelift so to say. We're recruiting more athletes instead of big, huge, hulking players all over the place.
i would agree with this as well
bill williams football coaches coach mentor to grobinson said to me last week "football games are won by players making plays"
pretty crazy eh?
August 4th, 2009 at 12:50 PM ^
Defensive coordinator Scott Shafer steps in as Rodriguez has his feet propped up -- between two laptops and just below an HDTV mounted to a wall..
Rodriguez's staff is filled with coaches who were with him at previous coaching stops, most recently West Virginia. Shafer has no connection to Rodriguez or the Wolverines..
"Because I'm new, what do we call a double-edge pressure?" Rodriguez asks..
"Cats and dogs," Shafer says.
Just so I'm clear, before we even get into Shafer's "scheme" versus Robinson's "scheme":
Did Shafer "scheme" to have Warren get burnt by Golden Tate, miss the tackle, have Trent in the complete wrong place to help, and have Stevie Brown over-pursue to miss the tackle?
Did Shafer "scheme" to have Obi Ezeh run to fucking Siberia instead of appear marginally close to the ball carrier on the numerous 50+ yard runs we had?
Did Shafer "scheme" for Jacob Stewart to not break on a single pass, ever?
Did Shafer "scheme" for the worst tackling Michigan's recent history?
Did Shafer "scheme" to have possibly the poorest pass coverage linebacking corps in the nation, as evidence by the 7 billion teams that ate us alive on mid-range slants, which then forced the safeties up, which then allowed teams to bomb over our head?
We can talk about "schemes" and who is to blame all we want, but it doesn't change the fact that Donovan Warren, Morgan Trent, Stevie Brown, Brandon Harrison, John Thompson, Obi Ezeh, and Jacob Stewart, 95% of the time, played poorly.
As a HS DC I know would say, "Jimmy's and Joe's instead of X's and O's".
ooohhh...BOOOOO, negative point!
How is anything I said not true?
because im still fixated on figuring out who the fuck jacob stewart is.
Whoooooops. Charles Stewart.
I argued above for a system-wide breakdown rather than assigning blame to individuals, but your analysis here begs for a re-analysis that does assign blame to an individual - but in a much more logical direction than you chose. You cite 8(!) players who were at fault for our poor defense, but ignore the one commonality - Shafer! What did all 8 have in common other than playing on a certain side of the ball and wearing certain colors and a certain helmet? Ummmmm....right, they played under the same DC. It is silly and illogical to assign blame to each individual player rather than their commonality - 8 causal factors rather than 1.
It is silly and illogical to assign blame to each individual player rather than their commonality - 8 causal factors rather than 1.
One could argue that it's silly and illogical to assign blame to the person who's not on the field fucking up.
What do Charles Stewart, John Thompson, Obi Ezeh, Morgan Trent, and Stevie Brown have in common over the course of their careers? Being not very good at football.
Thompson got benched by Lloyd and was beat out by luminaries such as Austin Panter and Marrell Evans last year. The team found any way possible to keep him off the field.
Stevie Brown played poorly under English, and played poorly under Shafer. So did Stewart.
Check out the UFR's for Ezeh with English as the DC - he was bad. Like he was last year.
Furthermore - the team last year could just plain not tackle. All those guys spent YEARS under Lloyd/English. If you don't want to blame them for their tackling difficulties, why heap all the blame on the 4th person who seems to have failed to teach them to tackle?
I was critiquing your assessment rather than stating my opinion that Shafer was to blame. I think is was a system-wide breakdown. My posts above make that clear. But I stand by the argument that, if you want to assign blame to people, assigning individual blame to certain players is silly.
Why is assigning blame for what happens on the field to the players on the field "silly"? I don't understand.
For the record: I don't think Shafer was a good hire for the following reason:
Rodriguez and he clearly had a hard time communicating with each other, and Rodriguez clearly was comfortable with him. When the defense started struggling, RR didn't trust Shafer to figure it out - he seized control. If that's the case, he likely shouldn't have hired Shafer in the first place.
... and when you consider Warren's statement of being on an "island" it offers some insight (not proof) that we may have been watching 11 guys on islands rather than a cohisive defense. That is theh DC's fault. Therefore, I "blame" him (and,yes, Gene... maybe my opinion is "stupid")
So... if the schemes are the same (for arguments sake) then this scheme with 11 players relying on each other for help is much better than this scheme with 11 players on islands without knowing if, or where, their help is.
this scheme with 11 players relying on each other for help is much better than this scheme with 11 players on islands without knowing if, or where, their help is.
Yes. I'm positive that's what Shafer's "Scheme" was. That's why Rodriguez hired him.
you are going to be on islands..
isnt that what we wanted a blitzing pressure defense?
then once it became apparent that michigans corners couldnt handle those islands, shafer had to adjust again, and play off..
when your safeties are terrible, you are going to feel like you are on islands...
when your lbs' cant help you on vertical releases, you are going to feel like you are on an island...
we had to blitz to get pressure, and we couldnt cover when we blitzed...
When the hell did we blitz last year? Maybe I was accidently watching Deleware all season and am confused... but we never blitzed the Strong Safety and seldom sent Obi up the middle. Maybe others will correct me, but I'm stating "UM 2008 rarely blitzed". All the qb pressure was disigned to come from the front 4 --- primarily Graham.
This year we will blitz... a lot.