Wanting to be here - Hoke vs. RR.
This actually spawned from a response to one of the earlier posts, but I wanted to give it a little more space to breathe. Up front, I'm an RR supporter who felt he was shafted, but I'm cautiously optimistic about Hoke being a decent guy down the line. Also, I will admit to disagreeing with people who attacked RR in years past, though only if their comments lacked substance and were merely seeking a reaction.
For all the people complaining about how Brian's take is going to "alienate" visitors to this site because of his negativity toward the Hoke signing, I counter that the blind devotion I'm seeing about Hoke from everyone is turning me off a bit. The guy was a meh choice that may very well work out, but saying all this "but he loves UM" crap doesn't hide the fact that he is a risky hire and brings into question Brandon's handling of this situation.
And for all the people trumpetting Hoke wanting to be here as some major point in his favor, do you honestly think RR didn't want to be here as well? The guy has been busting his ass for 3 years here under near-constant scrutiny from local and national media personalities, from a faction of the fanbase that hated him from the moment he was hired, and who had to revamp a team that was dangerously shallow in depth at various positions. He suffered through the same losing streaks everyone else did, and this is from a guy who won over 100 CFB before he came to UM. He recruited reasonably well, brought an innovative offense to the school, groomed the B1G offensive POY, and honestly was making strides on offense. Sure his defenses sucked and he made some dumb mistakes, but every coach in America has his flaws, and RR just kept plugging along and tried to fix them. Whether or not you agree with the measures he took to address them, the guy is a good coach and was doing the best he could.
He wanted to be here as much as anyone, but Brandon decided he needed to go so the change was made. He didn't leave UM - UM kicked him out. So stop it with the argument that RR didn't care about being here - I'm certain he wanted it to work out, and is probably pretty beat up that it didn't. He deserved better than this, even if it meant being let go weeks ago.
As for Hoke, I'm very happy that he is excited to be here - after Harbaugh and Miles thumbed their noses at the school, it is reassuring to know that somebody out there wanted to coach this team. But wanting something really, really bad doesn't mean this was a great hire on paper, or promises future success down the line. When RR was hired, people questioned whether or not a guy with a somewhat-limited coaching resume at smaller schools (and yes, people crapped on the BE since it was created) could step in and succeed at a competitive school like UM in the B1G. But now with Hoke, a guy with even less experience and a less impressive record at "worse" programs than RR, any comments about how this is a risky choice are labelled as flippant and caustic because the guy really cares about the school and "since he's the head coach, you have to support him." It is this hypocrisy that drives me crazy, even if it is human nature (and something I'm as guilty of as anyone else).
Listen, there are many reasons to be happy with Hoke: the guy has coached in the B1G before, he seems more offensively adventurous compared to other Carr disciples, his most recent track record shows a coach on the rise (even though the Ball St. season was definitely a fluke), he sounds like a good recruiter who has connections in talent-rich California, and he will bring a focus on defense that has been missing the past few years. But implicitly devaluaing RR's dedication by saying Hoke is dedicated to the program isn't fair to either them or the discourse that needs to happen.
January 13th, 2011 at 12:40 PM ^
I was pointing out that RR and Hoke both wanted the Michigan job, but it was for different reasons.
January 13th, 2011 at 11:37 AM ^
Agreed. This site has turned into a rivals board in the last couple of days.
It is perfectly fine to analyze the hire, the resume, etc.
So far the head coach has given a damn fine speech. I'm glad it got most of you to blindly follow him, but I am going to "let him coach his first game" before I do.
He needs to hit the fucking recruting trail hard though, like yesterday.
January 13th, 2011 at 11:40 AM ^
He'll be fine; he's probably touching kids as we speak.
January 13th, 2011 at 11:43 AM ^
That was weird and I did laugh. Especially given his face looks odd when he gets emotional. He almost looked like he smiled when he paused after he said that. I cracked up.
January 13th, 2011 at 11:47 AM ^
I hope he wasn't hitting the recruiting trail hard, yesterday.
(I know what you meant....)
January 13th, 2011 at 12:51 PM ^
He is allowed to call and write to recruits.
January 13th, 2011 at 11:38 AM ^
I still kind of wish RR had another year, but what's done is done and I'm ready to move on and support Hoke. There's no question that RR wanted to be here though; he all but got on his knees and begged for another year at the Bust.
January 13th, 2011 at 11:42 AM ^
RR broke down crying and sang Josh Groban, if that doesn't express "want" I don't know what does.
January 13th, 2011 at 11:48 AM ^
Well said. I think one thing to add to that is one of the main things people are using to extoll Hoke's virtues is that the players seem to love him and, I'm making an assumption here, the team chemistry that will result from this. I have two responses to this.
1) Team chemistry was most definitely not the problem in 2010. I can't remember liking a team more or feeling that a Michigan team had as much chemistry as they did this last year. The results may not have been where we wanted them, but dammit they enjoyed each other and playing. It made it a ton of fun to root for them, as I'm sure we can all agree.
2) Being a rah-rah players love me coach isn't the only way to get to that level of team chemistry. Bill Parcells could get players to run through walls for him because they wanted so badly to prove him wrong. He was incredibly negative and just plain mean to his players, and the ones that stayed continually say how much they love him and how much it motivated them.
That's not to say I want a coach like Parcells, at least in terms of the way he handled his players. My point is more that there are multiple ways to motivate the players. The thing we should be looking at is the success the coach has. Rich Rodriguez didn't have problems motivating the players to play together. He was very successful on that end. Brady Hoke appears to be someone that can do the same thing.
So in those terms, things will stay the same. That's a good thing, I think we can all agree on that. To me the focus should be on his actual ability to coach football, not just constant "he's a good guy!" or "I want to play football after hearing him talk!".
January 13th, 2011 at 11:48 AM ^
it's great that hoke wants to be here. but i don't know that it wins games. at the end of the day, he has to win.
January 13th, 2011 at 11:56 AM ^
He has to win. Yet he doesn't have a chance to do that for, oh, another 8 months.
So we're going to sit around and snark and hold it against him for 8 MONTHS that he should have to win before we can be excited about the program he's building?
January 13th, 2011 at 12:01 PM ^
More likely we're going to bitch about the hiring process for a few months, and the choices for staff - and then focus on recruiting, and then suffer the long draught to Spring Practice ...
January 13th, 2011 at 12:04 PM ^
He's not "snarking", he's just saying Hoke has to win.
For the record, when asked how Brady Hoke can unite the factions, James Hall didn't get all gushy and silly; he simply said, "He'll do it by how the team plays between the white lines on Saturday."
That's not snark, that's just how it is.
January 13th, 2011 at 3:49 PM ^
I think Hoke is what RR was always looking for, a diamond in the rough.Not the prettiest or fastest but just a smart,dedicated, hardworker who can instill confidence in others.To all the RR supporters,let it go.I backed RR too but towards the end it was downright embarrasing.He had his chance, and for alot of different reasons he failed.If you can't land a consistent 4 star athlete and have to rely on diamonds in the rough like he did at WV, then your going to look like he did.Which is two of the worst defenses ever to go along with a special teams that looked the same. I, for one, am ready to see some defense being played, being physical,and pounding the rock.Not hoping a few gadget plays will work, being absolutely perfect(especially in bad weather) with execution.And when it doesn't work, the coach speak ad nauseum.The Carr era certainly wasn't perfect but at this point I'll' gladly take that over what we've just witnessed.Hoke is here for all the right reasons.It was said when offered the job, he gladly accepted,never mentioning money for one.Miles and all these other big names are in it for the big payday.Hoke said he'd walk to AA and I believe him.Hell I think he'd work for free also, he loves Michigan so much. As far as recruiting, sure RR would land a few nice recruits each year but all in all, he gambled on a ton of guys who didn't and never would have worked out.Davion Rogers? Really.A 6'6, 200 pd. DE, in the big ten.I'm optimistic with this hire because I think Hoke can really sell the program, not some half-hearted coach speak trying to sell some shiny new gadget you don't really need.I'm all in for some real football.
January 13th, 2011 at 12:12 PM ^
The love for the school and the program that BH showed yesterday was important. If he gets that excited and emotional talking to a room full of reporters hidden behind cameras, I have to imagine that he has the ability to be fairly compelling in a family room with a recruit and his parents. I'm certainly not a salesman, but I have to do my share of convincing of others in my job. I know that I am much more successful in convincing others when my heart is in what I'm pitching. RR grew to embrace Michigan and our traditions and busted his ass (as far as i can tell) to give us his best, but it isn't the same as what BH presented. What I took away from BH yesterday, was an enthusiasm that has the potential to be infectious with all constituents. Assuming it is well received by recruits, it could be a pivotal component of his ultimate success, Obviously, that's a big if, but I think it is shortsighted to simply dismiss what we saw yesterday as just good PR.
January 13th, 2011 at 12:12 PM ^
Ny Times Freakonomics Blog: Just because you love your job doesn't mean you're better at it.
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/10/love-your-job-that-doe…
January 13th, 2011 at 12:14 PM ^
Nothing remotely good Michigan-football related has happened since what, the Purdue game? I think people are just looking for something to rally around, and our best hope so far has been a good introductory press conference.
I really hope Hoke works out and brings us back to prominence, but I don't think there's any denying how poorly Brandon botched this whole process. He backed himself up against a wall and couldn't really conduct a 'national search' because of how long he waited, and if there were better options to consider, we'll never know. We'll support what we have, and it may work out just fine, but Brandon's risks in the process backfired.
January 13th, 2011 at 12:25 PM ^
I always thought that RR had aspirations of the NFL. At least somewhere in him. I think that when he first came here he felt like it was for the betterment of his career and he looked at the job as the step before he went pro. Over time I have no doubt that he wanted to stay because he loved the University. I assume that RR will end up somewhere in the Big East soon and will do well there at some point, and will learn to love that university as well. There is no doubt that he works his ass off and will continue to do that in the future. I wish him all the best.
January 13th, 2011 at 12:36 PM ^
To be fair, virtually every coach entertains ideas of being an NFL coach - that is the pinnacle of the profession, and most guys are hyper-competitive and strive for that. Harbaugh would have been gone in a year or two if wooed, and most elite coaches at least entertain the idea. RR probably wanted to be a pro coach at some point, just like Hoke would if an NFL team came to his door and offered to triple his current salary.
January 13th, 2011 at 12:38 PM ^
I remember last season when DB came in and was sitting in coaches meetings, and watching film with RR. At the time it was viewed as a guy who wanted to really see and evaluate the program. I honestly didn't have a problem with it because we had a proven coach. RR I don't think was negatively affected by this, however....
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<br>If DB is sitting in coaches meetings with Hoke and watching film with him, I'm not convinced Hoke will be able to do his job affectively. Personally, I think DB is a control freak and wants to have a coach he could put is his finger on and have ore control than with RR.
<br>Anyone else find DB actions in regards to this concerning?
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January 13th, 2011 at 12:44 PM ^
*slow claps*
January 13th, 2011 at 1:11 PM ^
I love the passion that Hoke has about UM. But to question RR's passion would be ludicrous. Culture played a role in RR only getting 3 years, but win/loss record is the ultimate measuring stick. Hoke will get a 4th or 5th year, because of his cultural advantages over RR.
The one item Brandon mentioned about data involved a correlation between failure and dropping a coach in the middle of a foreign territory. RR was dropped into the Mid-West, with no ties. FAIL
Bo had Midwest ties. WIN!
Tressel had Midwest ties. WIN!
Exceptions that defy the correlation:
Saban at LSU, no ties, yet: WIN!
Urban Meyer at Florida, no ties, yet: WIN!
Neither of these two had ties to that area before being dropped in the middle of SEC country.
However, I believe "culture" is a much more powerful factor at UM than at UF or LSU, where "just win, baby" is the culture. We just have more history and more pure love for MEEEESHIGAN than any other program. Just look at the attendance. Just look at the integrity of the program!! (football...not basketball so much)
With all that said....if RR gets a good DC and leaves him alone....Hoke is still in San Diego. Winning would have overcome the "culture" barrier. But the losses, coupled with the "culture" issue was too much to get RR a 4th year.
The "culture" advantages Hoke brings are significant, but they won't overcome the win/loss record in his 3rd and 4th season. I think the "culture" advantage alone may buy him a 4th or 5th season, even if his record is comparable to RR, but a consistent loser will get canned, especially at UM, no matter how big a "Michigan Man" he is.
January 13th, 2011 at 1:18 PM ^
I think Brandon was trying to distinguish coaches who had a passion for Michigan in particular, as opposed to guys who would gladly come here if you put the right number of zeroes on their contract.
Obviously, once RR got to Michigan he gave the program every ounce of passion that he was capable of. Nobody has questioned his effort or commitment. But at the time he came to Michigan, he was frustrated with the lack of investment in the program at West Virginia. He was looking to move up to the next level, and the Michigan job happened to be the one that opened up at the right time. Had Michigan signed Greg Schiano, he would have given the identical passion somewhere else.
On a subtle level (and I am not saying I agree with this), Brandon is saying that RR’s passion was not necessarily for Michigan, but merely for “something better than West Virginia.”