Urban Meyer calls out Herman/Muschamp
Urban Meyer took issue with Tom Herman this week after making a comment that seems to place blame on the fact that these aren't "his players." Meyer also mentioned Muschamp, as he was the coach hired after Meyer stepped down, and Muschamp had similar things to say. Now in Herman's case, he is replacing another Urban Meyer disciple in Charlie Strong who was a Florida DC for 4 years.
His point is, once you sign the contract, and take over the team....they are YOUR guys. I agree with this sentiment, and it seems like a built in excuse for new coaches. I can't help but think that Harbaugh agrees with Meyer on this one.
EDIT: How many coaches in the last 20 years have won a NC in the first 4 years with their new team? Carr, Tressel, Saban, Miles, Meyer, Stoops, Fisher...not sure how long Dabo has been at Clemson. You HAVE to win with "inherited" players.
September 7th, 2017 at 9:20 AM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 9:20 AM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 9:24 AM ^
FUCK Meyer.
September 7th, 2017 at 9:23 AM ^
Fuck osu.
That is all.
September 7th, 2017 at 9:48 AM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 9:51 AM ^
I think it depends on a couple things.
A) If a coach comes into a situaiton where there is just no talent (Harbaugh, first year at Stanford) then he can coach up what he has but he has to recruit his way out of the hole. I think then its valid.
B) the second is if you (in my opinion make the mistake of) hiring a 'scheme' coach; RR bieng a spread guy; Mooch being a WCO guy, Mouse Davis being a R&S guy; Hoke being a Manball guy...
often these coaches *need* a specific type of player. Small and fast slot recievers for the R&S. Giant linemen for the Manball types, Denard/Pat White QB's for RR.
Without these type of guys, they fail. Mooch couldn't make Harrington work, or even better. I don't think he tried. RR trying to run Zone Read with Threet was painful. Hoke and Gardner...
Take all of those situations and put Harbaugh in there. I don't think he wins right away with the Lions, but I bet he tweaks the scheme to something that will work, with the available guys, and coaches them up as much as possible. Harbaugh after Carr is likely much less of a transition for the offense, and I bet the defense doesn't fall into a hole (I'm really confused by RR's inability to get a good defense). Harbaugh after RR makes Gardner a better QB and maybe stabilizes the line situaiton.
Just my opinion.
September 7th, 2017 at 10:02 AM ^
I completely agree that once you are the coach, they are "your players." You can't blame losses on guys who were there when you got there. You work with the guys you have. So I would say that Urban Meyer is spot on.
I also agree with space coyote that it takes time to build a culture. You do the best you can when you get there, and coach up the guys who are there. But it takes several years for guys to understand what you are trying to do, and to do it reflexively. Imhe, this is a strength at Iowa and Wisconsin. They have a culture that players buy into. And you recruit the best guys for your schemes and culture that you can going forward.
It struck many of us that when Harbaugh came in, some of the guys playing on the offensive line talked about how much more they were learning. Their ceiling was limited, but they improved massively over where they were when they began. And now that we are beginning to see JH guys playing on the OL, we will see a fair amount of improvement.
The one caveat is that Meyer walked into a great situation with the cupboard stocked. He should at least acknowledge that.
Lastly, you can want to beat OSU with hating Meyer.
September 7th, 2017 at 10:03 AM ^
"Always remember that when you point a finger at someone else there are always three pointing right back at you." Wise Advice.
September 7th, 2017 at 10:06 AM ^
See Rich Rodriguez at Michigan.
September 7th, 2017 at 10:41 AM ^
But even Bill Belichick would struggle there (at least winning at the level their fans want). The Big 12 style is dragging them down. It doesn't prepare them for the hard nosed non-con teams that can play defense and run the ball. But elsewhere Meyer is mostly right, you have to win with the hand you're dealt because those guys get the ball rolling in recruiting
September 7th, 2017 at 10:39 AM ^
I mean end of the day... he didn't convince our Sophmore co-starter from previous year QB to stay with our program. That was the number one recruit that RR missed on and it hurt us big time in his first year and with who we could recruit down the line. He adjusts his offense a bit and we keep Mallet and go 8-4 or even 6-6 the whole thing plays out differently.
September 7th, 2017 at 3:42 PM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 10:41 AM ^
I actually agree too - when you take over that program, someone else's players become your players, and you can sit there and argue about how they aren't right for your system perhaps, but they are your responsibility regardless of what you ultimately intend to do with the program. That's a leadership thing, and I don't remember anyone worthwhile in a management-type role saying, "Well, these aren't my guys" when they take on a group of people.
September 7th, 2017 at 10:42 AM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 10:47 AM ^
Probably could've pointed out that those weren't "Durkin's guys" who hung 51 points on Texas in his second year as the coach.
September 7th, 2017 at 10:59 AM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 11:07 AM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 12:53 PM ^
So it's not as if he came in brand new to coach "someone else's" guys.
September 7th, 2017 at 2:16 PM ^
Lloyd was Moeller's defensive coordinator, and since the defense was the strength of that '97 championship team, those were basically his players even moreso than they were Moeller's.
September 7th, 2017 at 11:08 AM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 11:24 AM ^
I don't like Urban Meyer but I respect him. The guy is a great football coach.
September 7th, 2017 at 11:51 AM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 11:56 AM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 12:13 PM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 12:57 PM ^
I agree with Meyer's general sentiment that coaches shouldn't complain about the players they inherited, but if I remember correctly the bigger complaint Muschamp had with the players he got from Meyer was that there were discipline issues he had to deal with. Meyer and his whole "Circle of Trust" BS or whatever won a bunch of games, but like Strong had to do after Brown left Texas, there were cultural issues to address.
September 7th, 2017 at 1:00 PM ^
The biggest point for me is that you disparage the kids and even any holdover coaches or staff. When Harbaugh was hired, all you heard was "wait until he gets his guys" in there. Part of that was from a scheme standpoint, but the primary sentiment is that the players are not good enough.
I had to face a coaching change in baseball and that's the exact feeling I had. I had to fight get past the feeling that I wasn't good enough, because all I heard was how bad the previous staff was and how they had to start over with us. Eventually, the point was made that the talent was there, but the coaching/discipline was not. Coaching changes are just tough on everyone and the ones making the $$$ should know that best.
September 7th, 2017 at 2:05 PM ^
In fairness, Urban inherited teams that were in pristine shape from a talent perspective when he took over at Florida and at Ohio State.
But in general, I agree with Urban: it's classless and whiny to say anything that even appears to blame the previous regime or its players for losses. Just take your lumps, deliver your standard coachspeak lines about how coaches and players all need to step up, and move on.
September 7th, 2017 at 4:27 PM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 5:23 PM ^
September 7th, 2017 at 6:32 PM ^
Carr wasn't brought in from outside. He was the DC. They *were* his players already.
...and Dabo Swinney didn't do a lot of winning his first four years.
September 9th, 2017 at 8:09 AM ^
September 9th, 2017 at 8:43 AM ^
Two things that I agree with regarding Meyer.
1. I had read, when Meyer was at Utah, Michigan was one of the schools he had in his contract that he could leave without penalty. In other words, Michigan was on his "wish" list.
2.His comments regarding Herman was spot on. I never once heard Harbaugh make any mention of "Hoke" recruits, lack of talent or the cubbard being bare regarding QB's (and it was). No, he went out and got Jake Rudock and developed "his" players in "his" image. No pixie dust needed.