UM/OSU 2017 Refs - 10 questionable calls

Submitted by Matte Kudasai on November 28th, 2017 at 10:42 AM

https://youtu.be/iKJOBtLNQ3o

1.) Holding on Hudson? - TD Drive - Also, is Winovich being held?

2.) Holding on Bredeson? Ref was 25 yards away - Klatt disagrees

3.) Schoenle blocked in back

4.) Glasgow blocked in back

5.) Spot on O'Korn?

6.) No call on Interference against DPJ - Klatt calls out ref again

7.) Blatant hold against Hurst - The mis-call of the game - TD Drive

8.) No PI against McDoom?

9.) Cheap hold on Cole - Klatt says poor call

10.) Holding against Winovich?

 

If someone can embed, please do so.

Comments

war-dawg69

November 28th, 2017 at 11:51 AM ^

I think it is time some Michigan fans get an agenda. If officials are flat officiating any games with a bias or agenda there fate could and should be met with severe consequences and I would be lying if I said I have a problem with that.

I have even more contempt for the idiots who revue plays. Those fucks can't get it right with slow motion. Wisconsin game DPJ left foot on the ground before the right and clear as day on video. How the fuck does the big ten officiatting defend that bullshit. It is in every game those clowns get it wrong.

Look at the guy in charge of big ten officiating. Flat out looks like a tree jumper. Ya I trust that guy.

diehardalum

November 28th, 2017 at 11:03 AM ^

Warde needs to take this video along with the statistical chart of calls in favor of and against our team under Harbaugh to the BIG and demand some answers.  At the very least there needs to be a push for some  new rules put into place with regard to officials for next season.  Combined with last year, it sure looks like the bias has gotten out of hand.  Never the less I have every confidence in our coach to rise above this and win in the future.  Go Blue!!

True Blue Grit

November 28th, 2017 at 2:08 PM ^

trying to work with the Big Ten office.  Harbaugh tried taking this on himself and we're seeing the consequences.  The refs are clearly biased and it's hurting Michigan.  But, there's no way Michigan should accept this BS, as it's horribly unfair to the players and fans.   And it throws into question the validity and credibility of the outcome of games.  Of course, it would be logical if Delaney took a leadership role on this and made a decision to revamp the whole referee program including weeding out the clearly incompetent ones and providing better training to the ones with some ability.  But the most important thing would be to create a serious review process of officials each week that is at least somewhat transparent, to establish accountability.  Right now, you see some of these ass clowns making bad calls almost every week and there they are in next week's games.  

bluesalt

November 28th, 2017 at 10:48 AM ^

On our final TD drive, there was defensive holding on second down in the red zone. The TV broadcast didn’t reset downs — I never saw a view of th chains to see if they did on the field. But before the TD, which should have been on second down, but the TV said was third down, Harbaugh was holding up three fingers, and I interpreted that as him questioning what down it was. The box score says that the first down was given — anyone know what actually happened on the field?

UMAmaizinBlue

November 28th, 2017 at 10:58 AM ^

This is the case. While at the game, the refs made no indication of a 1st down, announced nothing to the crowd, and the board seemed to indicate 3rd down, then maybe 1st, yet the chains on the sidelines didn't change down to "1". I honestly think this was a SNAFU by the refs, and luckily for them we scored and took the guesswork out of the whole situation.

Either way you slice it, this was a very odd sequence in the game that is becoming the new normal for the B10.

uofmdds96

November 28th, 2017 at 3:36 PM ^

that we were not given the first down, they were holding up fingers consistent with the chains.  Later when defensive olding was called against us, the ref announced "automatic first down".  I was losing my shit in the stands! (edit) now reading the below rule clarification, I have found my shit.  Not a fan of the differentiation in the calls.  But, luckily it did not matter.

Squash34

November 28th, 2017 at 11:56 AM ^

Not to mention that I don't think they reset the play clock after the long wr screen got them to about the 6. I have not re-watched the game, but live it sure seemed like they tried to hurry up to catch the buckeyes off guard and had like 7 seconds left.
I'm pretty sure they never waited for the chains before starting the play clock.

UMAmaizinBlue

November 28th, 2017 at 11:31 AM ^

I've no problem wiht a rule called correctly, but the fact that the team/Harbaugh, the fans, and the board operator had no idea what the down was means that not a single official felt it was necessary to announce that this particular brand of holding is NOT an auto-1st down. 

If anything, at least tell the damn coaches.

IndyBlue

November 28th, 2017 at 11:40 AM ^

Wow that's an awful rule.  So they're going to penalize the offense by not giving them a first down even if the holding caused the QB to not throw the ball (i.e. the receiver couldn't get open because he was held, better to not throw to a guy who isn't open than risk an INT, assuming the QB doesn't know the flag is thrown).

LeCheezus

November 28th, 2017 at 11:10 AM ^

What a strange sequence and I'm puzzled there hasn't been any clarification on this.  Is there a type of defensive holding that doesn't result in an automatic first down?  I've never heard of that.  Klatt also said something along the lines of "No automatic first down" but then didn't provide any explanation why that would be.  Doesn't matter in the end because we scored on "3rd" down, but still very odd.

 

Edit: Poster above me just answered question

814 East U

November 28th, 2017 at 10:52 AM ^

I am sick of playing the ref blame game. One of our biggest plays should have never happened because we snapped the ball after the play clock hit :00. I am sure OSU fans could find a lot of plays as well.

The JOK spot sucked and the DPJ call was beyond crazy. We had the ball with 2+ minutes for the win. We did not get it done. We gave up how many 3rd downs to Haskins? The 3rd and 13 was par for the course vs. OSU. Metellus dropped INT. If we focus on the plays and not the calls you can figure out why we lost. Officiating is just terrible across the BIG and the country. Quite frankly, I have just accepted that.

lhglrkwg

November 28th, 2017 at 11:45 AM ^

I've seen people talk about holding penalties but that's it.

I know I have the tendancy to immediate forget when we get a favorable call, but hold a grudge for 10 years if there's an unfavorable one. I'd need to see someone objectively go through this year's tape to make sure OSU wasn't screwed a bunch too before I grab my torch and pitchfork (even though it sure seemed like the refs disproportionately boned us)

ChuckieWoodson

November 28th, 2017 at 12:43 PM ^

1. The holding calls OSU/UM 17-0 last 3 years (even assume it's 17-2, 3) still completely out of whack.

2. The holding calls not called on OSU in BIG play (2 in last few years only)

3. BIG officials reviewed 2016 UM/OSU game and claimed there was ONE missed call after the review.

4. Holding calls on opposing Olines against UM last 2 years.

I agree there is certainly a bias that "we're the one's that are getting screwed" by the calls as you completely and accuratly point out.  But after awhile as this continues to pile up, the data really does seem to back up our concerns.

 

pescadero

November 28th, 2017 at 2:26 PM ^

1. The holding calls OSU/UM 17-0 last 3 years (even assume it's 17-2, 3) still completely out of whack.

 

Because it isn't the actual number.

Actual numbers of offensive holding calls over last 3 OSU games:

Michigan - 2
OSU - 1

 

For accepted penalties, all defensive and offensive holding:

Michigan: 4

OSU: 2

 

4. Holding calls on opposing Olines against UM last 2 years.

 

Holding largely isn't called on anyone.

For 2017:

 

Michigan opponents have been called for holding 8 times.

0.66 per game.

Ohio State opponents have been called for holding 9 times.

0.75 per game.

 Alabama opponents have been called for holding 3 times.

0.25 per game

charblue.

November 28th, 2017 at 5:19 PM ^

at the right time.

Making more plays is a direct result of what is called or not called. So, for example, if you say that Jordan Glasgow was in fact tackled in the endzone and three offcials saw it and called it, how come Michigan wasn't awarded a safety and two points? Make more plays or have the officials interpret the play so getting more points is imperative based on the call.

If you take away the option for two points and another possession based on the call you did get but how it's interpreted changes the outcome, then you have to keep making more plays to get the points you might have gotten if the calls were simply made based on the actual result of how you played the game.

In other words, are you supposed to overcome your opponent and the officials in every meaningful game in order to win The Game?

Credit812

November 28th, 2017 at 12:18 PM ^

does not mean you are absolving our team from blame for the loss.  There were plenty of things that we could have done better.  But the officiating was horrendous, and for the second year in a row in this rivalry, it was deicdedly to our detriment (the whole :00 playclock thing is quite common in most games, as delay of game is usually called about a second or so after the playclock expires.)  There's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

war-dawg69

November 28th, 2017 at 12:21 PM ^

There is a big difference of missing things and having an agenda. If you think in the osu game last year there was no bias by the officials you must take a lot of medication or really don't care. They called one meaningless penalty against them the whole game. They gave osu the crutch they needed and with the spot the game. If you are good with that you really are not a Michigan fan and could care less about things being right and on the level.

I can't stand poor officiating at any level and any game. I guess these games should not even matter and there should just be particpation trophies for all the soft people and will call it good. Poor officiating decides way to many games, but we are discussing a flat out agenda when it comes to this one game.

Yes Michigan needs to help themselves decide there own fate. They did not make the plays that needed to be made, but when guys like Mark May who really does not even like Michigan saying there is something rotten, I think it is time to take a side or just stay out of the way.

Do not have a lot of respect for non combatants or conscientious objectors when it comes to football fans.

814 East U

November 28th, 2017 at 12:32 PM ^

If you have time to analyze every penalty and non-penalty in all of Michigan's games then have it. I think you will simply find that BIG officials blow. The 2016 OSU game was quite odd. I will admit to that. I am not sure there was an agenda (unless the refs did not allow M's defense to tackle Curtis Samuel on 3rd and 20+).

JBB probably could have been called for about 50 penalties in the last 5 games. You don't seem to mind overlooking those.

jsquigg

November 28th, 2017 at 4:04 PM ^

I actually can accept honest mistakes.  What I can't accept is what happened in The Game last year.  What I can't accept is a conference rolling in dough and they can't afford to put referees out there who are properly trained and have a history of being fair.  If the job isn't lucrative, make it lucrative.  It's impossible to eliminate any bias, but the conference should bend over backwards to try to eliminate the perception of bias.  Referees should also, in every sport, have to answer to the press.  That should be mandatory, because if one of those Buckeye cowards impersonating refs would have had to answer for their decisions, it may have changed how they checked their bias in game.  Officials shouldn't be subject to abuse, but that doesn't mean they should be granted immunity.

Brhino

November 28th, 2017 at 12:26 PM ^

Remember, here is the official procedure for the official in charge of calling delay of game:

 

1. The official watches the play clock.

2. When the playclock hits zero, the official stops looking at the play clock, and looks at the players.

3. If the ball has not been snapped, the official calls delay of game.

 

The action of changing attention as described in step two creates a lag between when the play clock shows zero and when the penalty will be called.  This creates freeze frame situations in which the clock is shown to be zero, the ball has not been snapped, but no penalty is assessed.  

This happened to both Michigan and Ohio State at least a few times in the game.

Wolverine 73

November 28th, 2017 at 12:38 PM ^

People miss calls. On the other hand, I think some Toronto guy was reported on mlive today to have added it up, and we have had two offensive holding calls on opposing teams in the last two years of Big Ten play. OSU has had eight. On the other hand, we have had the best pass rush in the league with the most sacks. Now, you certainly would expect teams to be holding the better pass rushers more than the weaker ones. The numbers don’t make sense.