UM-MSU Snowflakes Thread

Submitted by kb on February 12th, 2013 at 10:33 PM

It is probably not too early to start this up.  I love the team and the success they have had this year so far, but in order to go far in the tournament they've got to step it up.

The lack of physicality on this team is a noticeable issue - they have gotten eaten up inside by teams with a halfway decent big man.

Trey Burke is the only one who can create offense for others.  No other players can penetrate to the hole with regularity.  You slow Burke down and Michigan suffers. 

You're not going to get very far on jump shots alone.  Take it to the hole.

EDIT: The defense is average at best.  Get in front of someone and cut off drives to the hoop...PLEASE.

Enough said.


kevin holt

February 12th, 2013 at 11:34 PM ^

I actually think our OOC schedule was one of the best. Maybe not at the top, but Pitt, K-State, and NC State have all been solid teams. MSU played Kansas (overrated) and UConn, and lost to Miami which now looks a lot better but still doesn't count as a win.

We'll be fine. Stop sinking the ship guys.


February 12th, 2013 at 11:26 PM ^

Horford is done. Bielfeldt or bust. Morgan is still banged up, really questionable having him out there. Robinson is a shell of himself. He's having THJ's first two seasons bundled into one. Don't have to worry about him going to the NBA. THJ could probably stick around too, he'd be the face of the program next season. Just a sloppy game overall. Obviously, we are not this bad, but you have got to question Beilein's ability in this big road games.

Penn State-Illinois-Penn State? That's just what we need right now.


February 12th, 2013 at 11:29 PM ^

since the Bradley game. We shy away from contact at all costs. Sparty has been good for so long because they play physical. Tonight, we looked like we would even lose a fight to one of Tommy's soft-ass teams.

Honestly, are there any B1G teams we would win a fight against? Maybe Northwestern? Maybe.... We are soft, soft, soft.


February 12th, 2013 at 11:32 PM ^

A common meme when we look bad is that we have major contribution from freshmen. True and noted.

But at the same time, I ask where we can actually expect to grow? I doubt Stauskas will magically get good at defense by the end of this year. I doubt GRIII grows up to play the 4 against physical teams by the end of this year. Then we probably lose Burke and THJ at the end of this year. Gone with them is essentially the entirety of this team's shot creation on offense.

I know I'm all gloom and doom and preparing for my flamebait ending thought, but until we start cloning McGarys and Burkes, I fear that we've seen this team (and future teams with this core of players) hit its ceiling.


February 12th, 2013 at 11:35 PM ^

One: MSU easily played their best game of the year - they earned it tonight.

Two: No conference allows as much hand checking and bumping as the Big Ten (except the ACC's allowance for Duke).  The tournament will open up some space.

Three: This team is playing game 4 of an obscene 4-game stretch.  This team looked tired.  Go lose at Wisconsin 3 days ago the way these kids did and see how you show up at your next game - on the road.

Four: No team in the conference has had a stretch like this.  State has near the equivalent with 2 at home and 2 away.  If they're better than 2-2 in that stretch, they'll have deserved the regular season crown.

Five: all the big ones are at home the rest of the way out - and there's only 2.  And the next 3 games are cake-tastic; a change to get healthy.

They'll sweep their way to the finale against Indiana for a chance to share the crown. That one I'm not predicting.  And Belien is tough to prepare for - we are not the most upsetable team in the country.  Barring injury, I still expect a very good March

Spontaneous Co…

February 13th, 2013 at 7:10 AM ^

Defines the "problem" with this squad. I can tell you how I hoped they would respond. I can tell you how team with a championship mentality would respond. vWith toughness, determination and a sense of urgency. With a better understanding of just how important every possession is in these big road games.

You can let that Wisconsin game beat you twice or you can use it as a valuable teaching moment.


February 13th, 2013 at 11:27 AM ^

Let this be a learning experience for them. They'll evaluate how they handled this stretch and find ways to better handle it next time. Frustrating as hell to lose to our in-state rival, but at the end of the year no one cares who won the B1G. This isn't football: there is a real post-season. If we learn from this gauntlet experience and improve for the big dance, then we're better for it. If not, ehhh not so much.

Always remember: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS


February 12th, 2013 at 11:36 PM ^

What I wouldn't give to still have Stu and Novak on the team.  The Wolverines lack leadership and the on-court smarts of experience.  I just don't get the sense that Burke or Hardaway understand how to steady a game when things begin to spin out of control.  I have no doubt that the freshmen are mentally worn out after this stretch which means they must rely even more on Hardaway and Burke to keep the game broken down into pieces they can handle, instead within the first few minutes they looked helpless against an avalanche they saw rolling their way. 

My biggest hope is that this drubbing embarrasses and pisses them off enough that they figure out, like I posted previously, how to play with a "get-the-fuck-off-my-court" attitude.  More than anything, that's what State brought tonight.  



February 12th, 2013 at 11:42 PM ^

David Brandon needs to have a chat with JB... Uneccaptable to loose to ur rival like this, taking Burke out was like when MSU took out Denard in football.. Take out the main players and we are done, shit our pants

Spontaneous Co…

February 13th, 2013 at 7:00 AM ^

This is 100% true and infuriates me. The whole program got embarrassed tonight. I wanted to believe this game would be different but I should have been honest with myself. Against a physical, athletic team that gives max effort with the best Coach in the country, we had no chance.

If you've ever been to an Izzo practice and compared it to Beileins these outcomes would not surprise you.

There is a HUGE difference in intensity and that carries over to the games. Our intensity the past few years was player driven and those players are gone.

Don't get me wrong, I love Beilein and these players may grow into great competitors, but they aren't right now and so we'll cower in the corner while the more intense teams pound us.

I hate to say it but it is not a coincidence that OSU, MSU, Wisconsin and IU all had great games against us. They play harder and we're terrible on defense.

If Izzo or Coach K had our players I have no doubt that we'd be a lockdown defensive unit. We are not too small to accomplish that. These players just have to care more. Until then, we'll be a talented team who wins every game except games against teams that play defense. Defense gives us the heebie jeebies


February 12th, 2013 at 11:46 PM ^

What i dont get is that when osu and msu play us, its like their fuckin championship game they give all they have, we play just like its another game, both BB and FB.. WTf there is no more hate from our side anymore, i dont know if its the coaches or the players.


February 12th, 2013 at 11:47 PM ^

was outcoached in the last two games.  The offense has been terrible, it's the same pick and roll play 90% of the time and if that doesn't work the ball just gets flung around the arc until someone jacks up a shot.  Movement toward the basket, both with and without the ball is nearly non-existent.  Thus we draw no fouls and we can't score for shit unless we're scorching from the 3pt line.   I can't understand how Beilein is unable to get this group to score.


On defense, well, I think the problem is more systemic. Beilein's 3-heavy system depends on a four who can shoot threes.  Unfortunately, three-point shooting and rebounding are not commonly found in the same player (praise be Novak).   To over come that you need either (1) a dominate 5 to control the boards; or (2) a lot of hustle and gang rebounding by perimeter players.  Lately, we've got neither.    The lack of shot blocking makes  on-ball defense of the upmost importance, although I don't see anything in Beilein's system that would tend to a lack of shot-blocking, except maybe hesitancy to foul.  The on-ball defense has been horrible, but that's completely on the players, not the system. 

I'm not sure it's fair to blame the problem on the team being a "finesse" team on offense, since you can have a "finesse", which I suppose means non-post based, offense without having horrible on ball defenders.  Both the Heat and Spurs run what would be considered a finesse offense, but their defenses are very good.   But notice that the forwards on those teams, namely Kawahi Leonard and LeBron, are good rebounders.  Our forwards, GRIII and Stauskas, are pretty shit rebounders (but good 3pt shooters) and I think that's part of the problem.  The other part is just lazy on ball defense.


February 13th, 2013 at 12:08 AM ^

The offense is what is so frustrating to me.  It's like you said they're either doing a 3 man weave on the perimeter or pick and roll on the perimeter.  Do not they not have any set plays to free someone up?  No one is moving without the ball.  They rarely if ever throw the ball into the low post.  For a coach that is supposed to be really good with the x and o's, you'd think he'd come up with a few tweaks here and there over this tough stretch.


February 13th, 2013 at 12:37 AM ^

I don't know if I'd call them a "finesse" team.  I think of them more as a team that likes to get out and run, led by a PG who can fly and makes good decisions in transition.  Slow them down with a physical, in your shorts type defense though and they grind to a halt.  I don't understand this though since JB is known for his offense.  It's as if he threw all of those concepts out the window when he saw what Morris could do with a pick and roll.  I don't know if that's on Burke, if the freshmen have yet to grasp what has been described as a difficult to learn offense or what.  This team cannot seem to think beyond one pass and from what I know of the offense that JB brought to Ann Arbor it was about multiple decisions on each pass, depending on what action they got from the defense.  I don't see them thinking the game like this at all.



February 12th, 2013 at 11:48 PM ^

No shouting or suicide drills. Just make the point that until you stop being so soft , your name is not going on a UM jersey. Kicking PSU's butt doesn't count either. Beilein must in his own way get these boys to grow up.

And does anyone think Hardaway is ready for the pros?


February 12th, 2013 at 11:49 PM ^

Let's lick our wounds and get back at it. Nothing like Penn st. to get ya back on track. MSU took the first of four at home, the season isn't over yet.


February 12th, 2013 at 11:59 PM ^

I think the biggest issue with this team is that when they need important buckets they don't have many options and especially inside. Trey Burke is a baller but he cannot beat teams by himself.

Another issue I see is a lack of physicality and want to play tough on both ends of the floor. It almost comes off as an attitude problem. I notice way too many easy buckets inside the paint and too many second chance points. I know coach B's teams have never been known for defense, however if we could buckle down and play great defense we would be almost un-beatable. I'm not ready to give up because we're so young and the 5 game stretch we just went through was brutal as hell. Hopefully we learn from it and become better for it. Go blue.


February 13th, 2013 at 12:18 AM ^

We played worse than the refs tonight. The refs would have been an excuse if the game was single didgets. What happend to our awesome offensive plays and back door cuts. It's almost as if Johnny B has assumed now that he has talent he can get away with stagnet offense

Hey on the bright side it can only go up from here


February 13th, 2013 at 12:33 AM ^

It's probably no coincidence that at least right now the top 3 teams in the conference standings (IU, MSU and Wisky) have the 3 biggest road wins in conference play - IU in Columbus, Wisky in Bloomington and Sparty in Madison.


February 13th, 2013 at 12:35 AM ^

If we're playing this poorly at NCAA time, we're going to need a fortunate draw to make it out of the first weekend. I wouldn't put a nickel on this team right now.


February 13th, 2013 at 12:40 AM ^

Anyone still feel the need to argue with me about this team not being on the Fab Five's level? I knew people here were highly overrating them on here when they thought this team would even stand a chance.

Feel bad for the team regardless. MSU played one of their best games in a long time and Michigan played terrible.


February 13th, 2013 at 1:49 AM ^

I was at the game in the middle of the inbreds. Don't give up yet on this team, still a lot of Big Ten Season and Tourney time left to bounce back from a 2 game meltdown.


February 13th, 2013 at 3:31 AM ^

  • Team didn't win a single loose ball tonight.  The 10 day stretch obviously had them on fumes tonight
  • Played the tough stretch with their most experienced big man barely able to contribute.  Love him or hate him, we all knew they needed JM against MSU's inside game
  • Whine much?  I know I do.  But the first 4 minutes of the 2nd half, the whistle took this game from a 10 point game to a 20 point game very quickly with Burke's terrible 3rd foul call (is that a foul on Nix every time he puts a 'gentle' shoulder into a defender to move him?) and Payne landing on Stauskas on the pump fake.  I have always believed 2 or 3 bad calls, timed right, can change a close game into a blowout.
  • In a world where UM, MSU, Ind, OSU, Wisky, and Minn don't lose at home and beat everyone else, UM and MSU are still on pace for 4 B1G losses and another shared title.


February 13th, 2013 at 6:10 AM ^

The only thing I take away from this game is I watched in Phuket, Thailand and my sling box connection was awful so I missed big chunks of the game. Even that crap game couldn't ruin the beauty of this place.

College basketball can be impacted by player emotion and state had a lot more. That is disappointing. I still expect great things from the team this year. I don't have an analysis as to why but I think Robinson gets a second wind and the coaches come up with the right adjustments. Or maybe too much sun is messing with my logic.


February 13th, 2013 at 7:40 AM ^

I really think that this 2 week stretch was the worst possible way the schedule could have played out. For a young team looking to build/maintain confidence, the fact that they were on the road for 3/4 with the middle game a killer against OSU meant there was no breather, no time to recover, etc. Now the onslaught is over, however I think their confidence has been affected in a way that a more spread out schedule would not have caused.

It's not an excuse, the B1G schedulers weren't trying to screw anybody, just bad luck imo


February 13th, 2013 at 8:05 AM ^

Wait, so are we complaining that the coach that we stole from west Virginia can't coach defense, struggles against top competition and has a team that appears to fall apart in the heart of the B10 schedule?