turtleboy

May 30th, 2011 at 9:46 AM ^

So does this mean Tressel has broken their streak of head coaches getting fired? I think it should count with all the others personally. For in depth analysis lets go to theexpert panell....

BluTom

May 30th, 2011 at 12:08 PM ^

I'm glad he's gone because we simply couldn't beat him.  But this situation should not have cost him his job.  Maybe a reprimand for lying in addition to the suspension and fine.

readyourguard

May 30th, 2011 at 12:42 PM ^

I am positive that somewhere out there on the internets exists a graphic or picture that accurately depicts an appropriate response to your statement.  Something along the lines of ......... are you fucking kidding me?

wolverine1987

May 30th, 2011 at 10:50 AM ^

I see this repeated quite a bit on the blog, and I just don't see it. "All their success was due to cheating?" I'm as happy as the next guy that this has come out, but I in no way see how M fans can believe they wouldn't have been 9-1 against us anyway. Take Pryor and the other 4 out of last years game and we still would have lost, and I dare say the same applies to the two years before that. I agree that what he did goes down as cheating for sure, but that doesn't mean he didn't outcoach and out-recruit us either.

M-Wolverine

May 30th, 2011 at 11:13 AM ^

And who knows how many other players who were receiving illegal benefits were ineligible, do I think we would have won more games? Yes. Heck, TS alone killed us, he was one of the guys receiving stuff. You act like before the last 3 years they were killing us, when there was a lot of close games. Take away a few of their star players, could that have been the difference? Yes.
<br>
<br>Recruiting is a lot easier if players know when they come to your school they don't only get to play for a great team, but get cash, benefits, cars.... There's a reason people cheat- it works. And it's no coincidence that a lot of teams that have had success at a greater than normal rate have been found to be dirty.

wolverine1987

May 30th, 2011 at 11:31 AM ^

are for benefits for players already in the program. The only recruiting type violations alleged are the Pryor car thing, and The Ginn funneling players for money. The first I believe, the second has no evidence. I'm not making definitive statements here, but IMO they out-recruited us and out-coached us, and in no way do I believe they wouldn't have won, for example, last year, even with all 5 of those kids out of the game. And I don't believe they were killing us pre-RR, but I know they won the first game of Tressel's tenure against us when we clearly had superior talent. And IMO he out-coached LC on the field as well.

BigBlue02

May 30th, 2011 at 11:55 AM ^

So you are suggesting that new recruits know nothing of improper benefits before they get to Columbus, they just all head there and are pleasantly surprised when they step on campus and can get free cars and they can sell their stuff for thousands of dollars worth of tattoos? There is a reason all of this is illegal. It is much easier to be a great coach when you are coaching top talent.

wolverine1987

May 30th, 2011 at 12:19 PM ^

they benefits available, if we follow your line of thinking and say players knew of them prior to committing, were no different than benefits they could have gotten (the top players) at many other schools. Most college football followers IMO would agree that there was nothing unusual in discounted cars at many schools (not ours). Therefore, IMO little advantage was gained.

wolverine1987

May 30th, 2011 at 1:33 PM ^

is that there isn't any evidence for it. I'm not saying that there is no way that Tressel cheated to get players there, but if you call the Pryor car thing evidence that many other top players went there because of benefits, you are making a large assumption. And it is far too easy for us as M fans to make ourselves feel better by saying yep, that's why we lost. Its tougher to say maybe we got beat for awhile.

jmblue

May 30th, 2011 at 3:47 PM ^

Before Tressel arrived we consistantly had better talent then OSU.

This is definitely not true. From about 1993 onward, John Cooper's OSU teams were absolutely stacked with talent. Think Eddie George, Orlando Pace, Shawn Springs, Big Daddy Wilkinson, Bobby Hoying, Andy Katzenmoyer, Joe Germaine, David Boston, Terry Glenn...

M-Wolverine

May 30th, 2011 at 12:01 PM ^

http://genuinelysarcastic.blogspot.com/2011/05/dotting-lie.html

You don't think that when kids hear "hey, Clarett got all this cash, etc., you can too", that's doesn't make recruiting easier? You don't pay a guy to come here. You tell a guy if he does come here, he's going to get paid.  It doesn't even have to be the coach. It can be a high school coach...a booster...whoever. To certain kids that sounds a lot better than "come here, you'll work hard, never get a dime beyond your scholarship, and become a better person". Some it's "how do I get PAID?"

Do I think that a game we lost 14-9, with Clarett breaking one for the first TD, when he should have never been eligible makes a difference, rather than being "outcoached"? Yes. Do I think that a 2005 game where Troy Smith almost single handedly brought them back against us, as well as tore us up in 2006, would have ended differently if he hadn't been allowed to play? yup too.

That alone would have made us 4-6 vs. him. Very respectable, especially when you count the last 3 years.  Lloyd would have been 4-3 vs. Tressel, with massive injury playing a big part in one of the losses. And we'll probably never know in some of the not so close games (2004, 2009) how many other players were getting stuff as Smalls and others have said, that would have made that talent advantage non-existent when they weren't allowed to play because they were taking extra benefits.

wolverine1987

May 30th, 2011 at 12:22 PM ^

and again, I'm not making a definitive statement. I just think that it's the wrong lesson for Michigan football to learn, as we try to return to the elite, that the last 10 years didn't really happen because OSU cheated. We were surpassed, and IMHO not all of it was because some players got improper benefits.

M-Wolverine

May 30th, 2011 at 2:42 PM ^

But enough of it to make a difference. No one is saying if they didn't cheat we'd have been 10-0 against them. But it'd be a lot closer, we'd have been closer to being "elite", and it would be easier to obtain if the recruits we were trying to get from Ohio (who we used to regularly get) weren't getting more from OSU than we can offer. It'll never be equal, because there will always be programs that cheat. But every one that gets knocked down for it, that's a good thing.

Logan

May 30th, 2011 at 10:51 AM ^

I don't like that he has that record against us (although some of those victories may get vacated) but I can sleep peacefully knowing that every facet of his program was built on cheating and coverups. I'd rather play against a coach on a level playing field. Its a great day for us and for college football!

ryebreadboy

May 30th, 2011 at 9:03 AM ^

I just saw that; this is crazy.  I wonder if there's a lot more dirt expected to come out in that SI article than we originally thought.  This seems an odd time for a sporadic resignation.