Torn on O

Submitted by Ajcoss on December 28th, 2018 at 11:38 PM

With all of these rumors with Pep going away after this bowl game, anyone worried our O does very well and we keep him around for 19? I am never gonna root for our team to do bad, but I don’t care if we score 60 and 500+ yards. Don’t want him back next year.

Anyone else torn on offensive outcome tomorrow and what that means for Peps future if we do really well? 

Comments

bamf_16

December 28th, 2018 at 11:41 PM ^

For the UM fan base, Pep Hamilton is the boogey-man.

 

It's sad, and I think a lot of people who otherwise would consider themselves, "grown ass men" need to grow the eff up.

bamf_16

December 29th, 2018 at 9:18 AM ^

Yes, because being torn about rooting for your team to do well is the sign of being a "realist."

 

Why is it the false choice? Why can't the OP and like-minded folks say/think/write that they want Michigan to blow the doors off Florida and at the same time be better on offense next season too?

 

Then we can have the debate about how to go about doing that, whether it be a college coach with a better track record of success in the college game, a more streamlined play-calling approach, etc.

 

God damn simpletons spewing nonsense and then framing it like they're the smart ones, the "realists." Give us a break.

Ajcoss

December 29th, 2018 at 11:01 AM ^

What? You just spewed for 4 paragraphs basically saying we can have really nice things today, but find someone better next year? Or Pep will magically start throwing to all of our playmakers? 

How often does someone get replaced when you finish with a bang? Once in a while, but shows you the torn mentality. Do we as fans want greatness today, so maybe mean more of Pep in 19? If you wanna be better next year, I can’t imagine you think that’s with Pep here. 

bamf_16

December 29th, 2018 at 1:47 PM ^

"an NFL dude who was let go by the Browns"

 

As part of fan base clamors for the NFL dude who was let go by the Jaguars.

 

Why is being fired by the Browns such a huge sticking point? That franchise fires coaches left and right. Now if he were fired by the Steelers, a franchise famous for NOT firing coaches, that'd be different.

 

But too many who post here are too stupid to realize this.

big john lives on 67

December 28th, 2018 at 11:44 PM ^

This is pure stupidity. How about you root for the team and let Jim Harbaugh handle who will run the offense?

This is and always will be Jim Harbaugh’s offense as long as he is the head coach. He is way more qualified to select those who will coach it than any on this blog. 

 

NorcalBlue

December 29th, 2018 at 1:20 AM ^

I call bullshit Clarence.  Can you really not see a difference between that O and this one?  The eye test isn't even close.  Play action on 3rd and 8, snapping the ball with 2 seconds left on the play clock, with long developing routes coupled with marginal Pass Pro, down late in the 4th - PEP bread n butter.  Junk.  

Why do guys like you continue to give PEP a pass at $1m per year?  What has he done, in your eyes, to deserve that kind of bank?

atticusb

December 29th, 2018 at 11:01 AM ^

Ok, so let's take this breakdown and go with it... Michigan wins a lot of games, but struggles against top notch competition in games of national significance.  As exhibit A, simply take our OSU+Bowl records over the last decade or so, including Harbaugh's tenure.  The options are:  (1) change something at the coaching level, or (2) don't. As a fan/alumnus I'm surely entitled to an opinion on this regardless of my expertise. As a mgoblog reader, I'm also entitled to voice that opinion (Thanks Brian, Seth, et al.!) You don't like the "get rid of Pep" opinions, so let's hear yours!

Is it your opinion that a coaching change should be made at some level? Do you think a coaching change on the offensive side should be made? Do you think a change in the "overall strategy, tempo, game plan, etc" coaching domain should be made... or a change in the "details" of the running or passing game?

If you don't believe a coaching change is appropriate or necessary, do you believe that there is anything that can be done to enable the team to "break through" the glass ceiling of OSU and other nationally significant contests, or is our recent history of lots of wins, but perennial also-ran status the new status quo?

For me, Don Brown got eaten alive at Indiana and OSU, and I'm concerned a bit... but still confident that Brown knows what went wrong and has ideas on how to fix it, and will make those adjustments moving forward. On the offensive side, I don't think Michigan's point total against OSU is all that revealing... (1) Purdue scored a ton on them, and look what just happened to Purdue--so it's not like it's hard to score on OSU. (2) The real problem to my eye was that the offense couldn't stay on the field (that is, keep the defense off the field) when it really could have helped. And (3), though 39 is a lot, it was nearly enough to keep up, so it's not like the offense was covering itself in glory.

In the end, I believe the running game and overall offensive line play improved *dramatically* with Warriner appearing on the scene. This highlights, to me, the importance of Asst coaching *within* Harbaugh's offense. In comparison, I see little effective use of our highly touted WRs, I feel that the TE usage is weak compared with years past, and I see very little creativity in route design to confuse or take advantage of defenses.  This last point, to me, is striking, as watching the running game develop this year it is easy to identify *a host* of little play design elements that go a long way to defeating defenses even before the mano-a-mano battles begin.  It's exactly this creativity in details, as you put it, that is my argument for why Pep Hamilton is a weak link in the Michigan coaching attack.

Bottom line: I believe we can break through the OSU/Bowl/top competition glass ceiling, but it will require continued adjustment by Don Brown (I feel pretty confident he can and will), and it will require the kind of step forward the running game saw this year in the passing game... and I do not see evidence that Pep Hamilton is the Asst Coach best equipped to enable this improvement.

StirredNotShaken

December 29th, 2018 at 12:26 PM ^

Personally, I think Harbaugh should find a more modern thinking OC and hand him the reins. I do not like Harbaugh's conservative approach to the offense nor his play calling by committee. It's Harbaugh that learned the gospel of three yards and a cloud of dust from Bo, not Pep. The point that Clarence and I are making is that firing Pep and bringing in someone else to be in the exact same role as Pep (i.e. executing what Harbaugh wants) won't change things. We are stuck with this offense either until Harbaugh leaves or he has a change in philosophy and modernizes his approach. 

victors2000

December 29th, 2018 at 9:28 AM ^

I get what you're saying and I agree adjustments need to be made; this offense should be more efficient against better teams. It works just fine against teams with less talent but with a team with better or equal talent, not so much. Personally, I like the offensive philosophy but the pass game could use a few tweaks. Heck, toss some into the run game too. I think we should make the opposing D have to prepare to defend the whole field and the I don't think we do that right now.

UMxWolverines

December 29th, 2018 at 2:53 AM ^

That offense wasn't that great because we had no running game to compliment the passing game. Take a look at that year's numbers:

Darboh: 57 catches for 862 yards

Chesson: 35 catches for 500 yards

Butt: 46 catches for 546 yards

And that's with a mediocre QB. It was even better the year before with a pretty decent QB in Rudock.

Our highest catch total this year was 39 by DPJ. He would have 60+ in the right offense, and if he doesnt next year it will be a crime. 

1VaBlue1

December 29th, 2018 at 8:43 AM ^

So you're complaining about the offense not being good at running, and then crowing about how many catches the WRs had.  WTF?  You can't rip it apart and praise it at the same time.  The whole cake eating thing...  

Basically, all you're doing is complaining about shit you don't like.  Whining like a little bitch.

UMxWolverines

December 29th, 2018 at 9:51 AM ^

Yeah that's exactly it...I was complaining that we had no run game in 2016. Not that our offense would have been damn near unstoppable that year with a running game to compliment the passing game which was great. Instead of relying on trying to jam it down everyone's throat this year which clearly didn't work. 

JonnyHintz

December 29th, 2018 at 5:01 AM ^

I’m not sure we recall the same offense... Rudock was terrible at hitting his receivers in stride downfield, and Speight was no better...

I’ll give you that the playcalling seemed a bit better and the passing routes made sense and didn’t take too long to develop, but Shea is no worse (id actually call him better) than Rudock/Speight at hitting guys in stride, especially throwing the ball downfield. 

bluepalooza

December 29th, 2018 at 6:21 AM ^

The last 4 or 5 games in 15, Rudock was lights out.  Late in season he threw some of the best timing passes we have seen under Harbaugh. I can recall him throwing to receivers before they were in their break and throwing them open.  Early in season, he missed a ton of open receivers. It takes timing to develop a downfield passing game.  One more season with Harbaugh will pay huge dividends for Shea and Michigan offense.

chunkums

December 28th, 2018 at 11:44 PM ^

Other than Yoder, are there credible rumors floating around about Pep leaving? What's the source?

I want us to win tomorrow and to look good. If Pep lights it up with what is essentially the 2019 offense, maybe he deserves to stay.  

bamf_16

December 29th, 2018 at 9:32 AM ^

Speaking of Yoder, he apparently said yesterday that Harbaugh is looking at interviewing as many as 10 (?!) coaches whose primary job would be play-calling.

 

I'm seriously hoping today looks a lot like New Year's Day 2008 when a Michigan offense that seemed dormant much of the season came out with new looks and utilized the offensive talent it had.

 

Of course, if that happens a lot of us will be uber excited going into the 2019 season, and a bunch more seemingly will just bitch about why it wasn't there all season.

Ajcoss

December 28th, 2018 at 11:52 PM ^

Few of the guys on here pretty connected have mentioned it a few times in random topics. Guys who have provided inside scoop before. Plus, Yoder lol. He’s the voice of Michigan Sports HAHA. 

TennesseeMaize

December 28th, 2018 at 11:52 PM ^

We’re going to look amazing tomorrow because the defense was embarrassed by Ohio State. They’ve had a month to get pissed, cycle through the stages of grief, and return back to fierce anger. Florida will have -14 yards and 0 first downs at halftime. The M offense will be on the field all day to tinker around with different combinations. 

victors2000

December 29th, 2018 at 4:38 AM ^

Losing Devin is huge, we aren't going to replace his production with 'Other Devin'. Losing Karan is probably the other loss that can't truly be replaced, but with respect to the other departures the 'next man up' will do fine. The rest of the team that won 10 straight games before meeting up with a talented Ohio State team in the Horseshoe, is there. The Peach Bowl isn't the 'shoe and the Gators aren't the Buckeyes. We might not look quite as good as we did during the streak, but I don't think we're going to look like crap.