The Top 10 Recruiting Programs During the Rivals Era (2002-2016)

Submitted by M-Dog on

 

This is an interesting link I found while poking around for other stuff:

https://uga.rivals.com/news/do-rivals-rankings-really-matter-

It lists the Top 10 recruiting programs during the Rivals era from 2002-2016.

The author uses a methodology similar to the way the AP Poll comes up with rankings: 1 point for the Team ranked #25 (according to Rivals), 2 points for #24, 3 points for #23, and so on. 

He then adds up the points for each year from 2002-2016 to come up with this list of Top 10 recruiting programs  during that timeframe:

Top 10 All-time Rivals' Team Recruiting Rankings (2002-2016)

Rank

Team

Rivals' Points

1st

So. California

308

2nd

Florida State

283

3rd

LSU

275

4th

Georgia

271

5th

Alabama

270

6th

Florida

263

7th

Ohio State

246

8th

Texas

242

9th

Oklahoma

234

10th

Auburn

226

 

Michigan did not make the list because of various coaching-change stumbles during this timeframe.
  
The good news is that recovery is clearly possible . . . Alabama only had a top-25 recruiting class just twice from 2002 through 2007, and only once did it finished in the top 10.  I’d say they’ve recovered nicely.
 
The most noteworthy item of interest about this list:  Every single team on this list except chronically under-achieving Georgia has played for the National Championship.
 
Eight of the ten teams have played in multiple National Championships.  Every team on the list except Georgia and Oklahoma has won the National Championship (and Oklahoma did win it in 2000).
 
Stars do matter.
 
If Harbaugh keeps recruiting in the Top 5, we are going to play for National Championships.  Plain and simple.
 
The author then goes on to compare the list with teams’ performances in the final AP poll to see who has under-achieved and over-achieved versus their recruiting performance.  Spoiler alert:  Tennessee is the biggest under-achiever, Boise State is the biggest over-achiever.
 
Have a look at the link, it’s interesting stuff.
 

alum96

January 31st, 2017 at 3:50 PM ^

I wouldn't say all had top 10 coaches

Of the 9 non Georgia schools, Saban was at 2 (LSU/Bama) and Urban was at 2 (OSU/Florida).  There are your top 2 coaches in CFB.  That knocks out 4 schools.

Despite the hate, Boomer Sooner is considered a top 5 coach....certainly at his peak and still top 10 now. 

What Bowden did at FSU is legendary - their 30 year run is up there with the type of things Osborne did at Nebraska.  Top 5 coach.

Pete Carroll both cheated and was an excellent coach.  So that's 7 of your 9 non GA coaches.

I don't think Auburn had a top 10 coach really, nor do I consider Mack Brown a top 10 coach.  They both had a singular talent at QB in Cam Newton and Vince Young respectively.

Starz matters ... so does coaching.  If you don't dominate in those 2, then you need to have a transformational type QB.

 

stephenrjking

January 31st, 2017 at 1:20 PM ^

Mack Brown was a great recruiter, but it's hard for me to say that he was a great coach, and he's the best that Texas can offer. Not sure Auburn has had a great coach, either--depends upon what you think of Gus, I guess. Seems to me that this emphasizes how important recruiting is to a coach's success, more than anything.

M-Dog

January 31st, 2017 at 2:15 PM ^

I thought the same thing.  It's easier to win championships with top-10 talent and middle-50 coaching than it is to win championships with middle-50 talent and top-10 coaching.

Saban was not winning NC's at MSU.  Erickson and Schellengberger were not able to replicate their Miami success at non-Miami recrutitng-level programs.

I suspect that if you took half the coaching staffs on the OP list above and put them at middle P5 schools, they would have no more success at those schools than the coaching staffs they replaced.

 

Winchester Wolverine

January 31st, 2017 at 1:19 PM ^

There's many variables linked to a dynasty like Alabama's. But one can infer that top 5 recruiting classes and elite coaching are the top 2 factors determining the consistency of success. I believe that one feeds the other. Recruiting and coaching, coaching and recruiting. Talent, in my opinion, is ingredient X; the lifeblood of any program. Of course there are the occasional exceptions. Perhaps elite coaching is what got the ball rolling for 'Bama, but the uptick in recruiting shortly after is what kept the ball going. Successful recruiting equals consistency. As long as the right staff is there to coach them. I believe that programs will be inconsistent with just one of the two big factors.

DualThreat

January 31st, 2017 at 12:14 PM ^

Thanks for posting.

Regarding Boise State, I often wonder if they are really overachieving or if the talent they are recruiting is just not heavily scouted by the services.

 

I Like Burgers

January 31st, 2017 at 12:23 PM ^

I think Boise State was just much, much better at coaching and developing talent than anyone else in the Mountain West.  Gave them a better path to 10+ win seasons, and then berths in big bowls.  And once they were there, Petersen is every bit as good of a coach -- if not better -- than the Bob Stoops of the world, so with a month to prepare for the game, Boise did very well.

Boise State did recruit a few 4-star level players, and set a few guys to the NFL, but I don't know if the amount of 2/3/4 star guys they sent to the NFL was any better or worse than a typical program.

Winthorpe. Louis III

January 31st, 2017 at 12:39 PM ^

"I don't have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you."  I agree that playing 8 games against the Mountain West put them in a great position to be ranked every year just based on record alone. They also benefitted from a (at the time) cutting edge offensive system installed by Dirk Koetter and refined by Coach Pete. 

M-Dog

January 31st, 2017 at 12:25 PM ^

I think it's a system thing.  They are starting to fall off some with the coaching change.

Oregon is another team that has benefitted from a system.  They have played in 2 NC's despite not consistently recrutitng in the Top 10.  Problem for them is that people have started to figure out their system.

MotownGoBlue

January 31st, 2017 at 12:48 PM ^

Not to take anything away from what Boise has accomplished (impressively, in a short period of time) but playing in a weak conference has helped their overall win-loss record tremendously. It's clear they've had good coaching and managed to poach quite a few under-the-radar kids out of California. However, if you place that program right now in a P5 conference I think they'd struggle to go 7-5/8-4 most years.

stephenrjking

January 31st, 2017 at 12:37 PM ^

It starts with coaching. They've gotten some good players, but what all-world monster player do you remember carrying Boise State to unexpected success? There aren't any. They've had some good QBs, but nobody that would set the NFL on fire (Kellen Moore was their best product, wasn't he?). It does help that there's a lot of space out there, pretty far away from the focal points of college football. The west coast is a place where they can scout and find players without the big boys out east moving in.

The conference helps, too, obviously. They were the best team in their conference by a country mile, which allowed them to rack up the wins while scheduling a big game or two to strengthen the resume. Since a lot of P5 teams wouldn't touch them, they would wind up playing a mid-level team like VaTech quite a bit, acquiring a respectable win or two.

They performed about as well as a team in their position could perform. Now that the coach is coaching at Washington, Boise is receding back to the pack while UW looks like a power for the next decade.

schreibee

January 31st, 2017 at 1:38 PM ^

Wait - isn't saying Boise doesn't really overachieve, they just find under-scouted players just a backdoor way of saying starz aren't everything?

If the services are missing guys (they can't be everywhere, right? They stick largely to known areas of talent, population) - and a couple of schools are consistently finding guys who outperform their rankings, then those are who I'd personally describe as the best coaches.

That list is led by Chris Peterson, and unfortunately includes Dantoni (or did for a decade anyway). That list most definitely does not include Brady Hoke!

Posters on this blog have said that for college football, coaching is recruiting. Way too simplified. We'd all like 25 5* every class, and so would all our rivals, But it's how those #150-400 ranked guys perform - specifically outperfom/overachieve - that will decide who wins conference titles and gets in the CFP. 

Well, that and nice cars....

stephenrjking

January 31st, 2017 at 12:20 PM ^

Poor Georgia.

I don't know that this numerical methodology is the best one for this sort of evaluation, but it's decent for its purposes. And the results are telling in a lot of ways, including a pretty fair exposure of Michigan's mediocrity through much of this period. 

It's actually pretty startling how good USC and FSU are rated. FSU in particular, while winning a title a couple of years ago, has had a lot of really humdrum years despite perpetually strong recruiting classes. USC has also been mediocre since Pete Carroll left, their recent Rose Bowl win being something of a return to prominence.

stephenrjking

January 31st, 2017 at 12:40 PM ^

That factor is so disproportionately important that it gets lost in a larger field of numbers here. Dominant QBs are huge difference makers. It's a big reason why Clemson, which is not on this list now and not really set to be on this list going forward, has achieved what they have. 

I thought Denard or Devin could have been that guy. I wonder if a better coach could have made it happen. Maybe a better coach will make it happen in the near future with someone else.

ChiCityWolverine

January 31st, 2017 at 12:43 PM ^

USC seems to be one of the programs least affected by a poor season or two on the field in recruiting. LA always plays to kids nationally, and it is very difficult to go head-to-head with the Trojans for a kid from SoCal that they want. It's a uniquely strong mix of program tradition, weather, academics, and NFL production. 

M-Dog

January 31st, 2017 at 1:00 PM ^

Plus, it's really just them and sleep-walking UCLA as the close-by schools in an amazing area for talent.  All the other top competitors for that talent are many hours away.

Florida and Texas have amazing talent too, but there are like 20 top programs withn 3 hours drive competing for it.

 

alum96

January 31st, 2017 at 3:57 PM ^

Mid 80s Bowden to mid 00s Bowden was among the best runs in CFB.  Late 00s Bowden was like late stage Carr for sure.

I also think people underappreciate Jimbo Fisher a bit.  As we saw here it's not just about getting talent, you need coaching to get those 10-11 win seasons he does annually.  Things have fallen off a bit here the past 2 years but if they find any QB play this year they could be in the top 3 this year.

Jimbo Fisher (ACC) (2010–present)

 
2010 Fisher 10–4 6–2 1st Atlantic W Chick-fil-A 16 17
2011 Fisher 9–4 5–3 2nd Atlantic W Champs Sports 23 23
2012 Fisher 12–2 7–1 1st Atlantic W Orange 8 10
2013 Fisher 14–0 8–0 1st Atlantic W BCS NCG 1 1
2014 Fisher 13–1 8–0 1st Atlantic L Rose 6 5
2015 Fisher 10–3 6–2 2nd Atlantic L Peach 14 14
2016 Fisher 10–3 5–3 3rd Atlantic W Orange Bowl 8 8

 

MotownGoBlue

January 31st, 2017 at 12:45 PM ^

I'd like to see this chart in a composite form. ESPN, Scout and Rivals (I think MaxPreps had rankings in the early 00's) weighted equally and then 247 factored in from 2010(?) on...

schreibee

January 31st, 2017 at 1:45 PM ^

As an avid fan and consumer of all things Michigan football, i can hazard a pretty fair guess -

we'd be just below that top 10 recruiting cutoff in the OP, and not too far above Tennessee in the most disappointing results table. From '02-'14 at any rate.

Pretty hard to get any reliable data from Harbaugh's recruiting classes yet, but we can readily see the value of great coaching. How many Hoke players are about to cash in thanks to Jim Harbaugh taking this job?!

alum96

January 31st, 2017 at 4:07 PM ^

UM usually comes in #5 to #15 the past few decades in a typical class (excluding the tiny classes). And in the past 20 years they have mostly underachieved.  ND & UM have been almost parallel programs in many ways the past 20 years.  Former Midwest dynasties living off the past and churning through coaches trying to find their way.

ND, UM, and GA have all had moments of brilliance but I'd say have all been major underachievers the past 2 decades - and TN has just plain underachieved.

TX for all the Mack Brown hate had a decade of double digit wins every single year from 2001 to 2009.  And hit the crown with Vince Young.  Since 2009, it's been very mediocre.

BlueinOK

January 31st, 2017 at 1:58 PM ^

Even with some of those bad classes with transitioning coaches, Michigan has to be close to being in that top 10. Unless Rich Rods's last few classes were worse than I remember. 

M-Dog

January 31st, 2017 at 2:26 PM ^

If they slid that 2002-2016 window a few years backward or a few years forward, we'd easily be in the Top 10.

That 2002-2016 time period just happens to catch us at our worst:  Lloyds last few slowing-down years, the Rich Rod fiasco, and Brady Hoke who started strong recrutitng-wise but then fell off as it became clear he was not going to make it.

If you looked at, say, the preceding 15 years from 1986-2001, we'd be at 6th or 7th.

M-Dog

January 31st, 2017 at 4:40 PM ^

For reference, here are Michigan's recrutitng class rankings for the '90s, per Lemming:

 
1990:  Top 10 but not Top 5
1991:  #1
1992:  #7
1993:  #2
1994:  #3
1995:  #10
1996:  #10
1997:  #5
1998:  #1
1999:  #8
 
That's a pretty damn good run in a ten year span . . .      Two #1 classes, five Top 5 classes, and no class not in the Top 10.
 
Some people say that we were beating Ohio State all those years in the '90s with inferior talent, but that's a myth.
 
Ohio State, per Lemming:
 
1990: #3 (Emfinger)
1991: #?
1992: #6
1993: Outside Top 10
1994: #2
1995: Outside Top 10
1996: #1
1997: Outside Top 10
1998: Outside Top 10
1999: #4