Toney Clemons changes his tune
After helping to throw RR and UM under the bus, Sam Webb catches Toney Clemons on Denver radio singing a differnt tune. Clemons admits RR had to undertake a rebuilding process and wishes UM the best. So, I suppose the good news is no bad news. Worth a listen I suppose considering these dog days are long.
http://www.wtka.com/index.php?fuseaction=home.podcasts_sel&id=6455
Oh wait, that's probably for Justin Boren... nevermind.
Too late.
Father, mother, uncle, one of the CU coaches, somebody told him to either be conciliatory or shut his pie hole.
Either that, or he sees what a clusterfuck CU is under Hawkins, and he's now realizing that RR ain't so bad after all.
whether he goes to the NFL or goes out into the working world as a professional in something else, it never looks good to an employer when they see that you have publicly trashed someone you use to work or play for.
Toney Clemons is not going to the NFL.
Breaston is the one that told him to shut his pie hole, guarranteed.
Guess he should have thought of that before spouting off to reporters.
He didn't withdraw what he had said so he's still dead to me.
...too late.
fuck him
Until he apologizes/makes a retraction, I don't care what he has to say. Even then, I don't know. The damage has been done.
The damage has already been done, son.
Someone in practice knocked some sense into him. Never talk bad about the family.
Toney went to Colorado where Dan Hawkins is in the hot seat going into his 5th year with a 16-33 record. Me thinks that Toney realizes that the fieldturf isn't always greener on the other side and that he went from a bad situation to a worse one at Colorado.
bitch.
Come on guys, take it easy. I mean the kid's already getting his punishment (playing at Colorado).
More like:
He chose to play at Colorado where the QB is the coach's son and is not a D-1 caliber football player.
and the backup QB that replaced him isn't any better
It's the Big 12! Clemons, if you don't like Sunday film, go play intramurals, brother.
Not for very long
If you don't speak the truth don't speak at all. Too late but you are forgiven.
I still hope he gets Kobe'd out there in Colorado. His whiny ass was the catalyst for all the crap we've dealt with over the past few months. In a lot of ways, he is a bigger Benedict than Boren.
The catalyst for all this was a whiney Lloyd Carr who threw a tantrum when Mike DeBord didn't get hired as head coach
Everyone controls their own mouth. He didnt have to say anything, it was his free choice no matter what was going around him. The old line - If you dont have anything nice to say, then STFU - rings true here.
Could you imagine if Mike DeBord was hired as Michigan's head coach after Carr left? Oh my god.
I was going to imagine it, but then I decided I'd rather just shoot myself.
Liar!!
I agree. Fuck Toney Clemons... dude is a little bitch with a seriously over-inflated sense of his own talent.
I still hope he gets Kobe'd out there in Colorado.
Deep breaths.
...still not working.
....must.....correct.....assholes....on.....Internet.......
ARRGHHHHHHH
PEOPLE CLEMONS LEFT WITH HIS HEAD HELD HIGH AND ANSWERED TRUTHFULLY AND DESERVES RESPECT BLLLLLLARRRRGGGHHHHHH
I'm not sure if this is an attack on me?
If it is...
I'm just thinking about what Kobe did in Colorado, that this guy can be referring to. He got knee surgery. Does this guy want Clemons to have knee surgery? No...that seems odd.
He's beaten the Nuggets some. Does the poster want Kobe to beat the Nuggets? Unlikely.
He got in trouble for allegedly raping a woman. Does he want Clemons to get in trouble for allegedly raping a woman? That's sort of messed up.
Or, wait - maybe be wants Clemons to be on the RECEIVING end of the "Kobe". Does he want Clemons to get surprise-sexed? That's pretty messed up too.
That's all I'm saying.
Come on, Man. Whats the harm in a little surprise sexed between friends
BOOM ROETHLISBERGER'ED!!!!
No, I'm agreeing with you.
You were advising deep breaths of patience with the Clemons-haters, which I tried, but it didn't work.
FTR: I very much respect Toney Clemons. I think he left because his reason for being at Michigan was playing in a pro offense that develops good NFL receivers, and that reason left with Lloyd. I think this because Toney said so, and he has historically been pretty honest and straightforward, even during his recruiting. I miss having him on the depth chart, but he departed with dignity, and has since only answered honestly and openly when people ask him a question.
And it frustrates me to no end when posters like the guy above you (and a ton of others on here) start ripping on a former player and wishing him ill without ever considering, you know, how upstanding and honest the player might be. This isn't fucking Boren or Wermers; he has never acted like those guys. Wishing Colorado-Kobe-ism upon him is downright classless.
... and I was trying to be dramatic about it in hopes that my MGoCred could possibly turn the consensus opinion around here, so I don't see any more Clemons-bashing threads.
Gotcha. +1 then, carry on.
Your point is important, not merely to protect Clemons from any unfair attacks (in the end, Clemons appears to have been substantially used by Rosenberg); but also it is a matter of substantive importance in the whole story.
Clemons left Michigan for ordinary reasons. He wanted to play more; he didn't want to play in a spread. And he may have had ordinary-type personal reasons to go someplace new. Breaston left; and Clemons had less reason to stick around. Ask about a thousand of the right kids who are now high school seniors, "Would you like to go to Colorado?" and they'd say yeah.
And yeah, Clemons pretty much said all of that before he left. All of which totally puts the lie to any notion that Rich Rodriguez's infamous cruelty drove off Clemons, or any other Carr-era upper classmen. That myth always was, and is, and always will be, a rotten smear of Rodriguez, devoid of any support.
So yeah; I have nothing against Clemons. What you say is worth noting about Clemons, and I detail my further thoughts below.
lest we forget:
Former Michigan wide receiver Toney Clemons told ESPN on Sunday night that all of the allegations reported are accurate.
"The allegations are true," Clemons said. "Nothing is fabricated or exaggerated in that story. I was there on Sundays from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. or 11 a.m. to 10 p.m. depending on if guys needed treatment. You were there daylight to nighttime."
Clemons has since transferred to Colorado. On Saturday night, another former Michigan starter and a current Michigan player who asked for anonymity started said the reports of excessive training and football-related activities were accurate.
"On Sunday, it was lifting, film, dinner and practice," Clemons told Schad. "I usually got out around 10:20. I truly don't want to be associated with the program back there. But I am going to help benefit my teammates back there by speaking and giving testimony."
From the Denver Post, right after that...
Quoted by Schad, Clemons said: “The allegations are true. Nothing is fabricated or exaggerated in that story. I was there on Sundays from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m., or 11 a.m. to 10 p.m., depending on if guys needed treatment. You were there daylight to nighttime.”
Perhaps realizing that this may create a firestorm of media inquiries, Clemons put out this statement through the CU sports information office on Monday:
“It was not my intention to come to the forefront of any situation dealing with the Michigan football program. I talked to a reporter (Schad) Sunday night, but did not answer any questions. Nor did I contribute any information. I don’t have any ties to the original allegations and my involvement in the matter doesn’t go any further than reading the (Detroit Free Press) article and confirming the allegations made by anonymous sources.
“If I am asked to answer questions by any official party, be it the University of Michigan, the Big Ten or the NCAA, I will be honest about my schedule while at Michigan. But for right now, I am a Colorado Buffalo and no longer associated with Michigan or its football program. It’s time for me to concentrate on my classes and my teammates here at Colorado.”
CU sports information officials told reporters Monday that Clemons did not believe he would be quoted by Schad and did not want to appear vindictive against Michigan. Clemons has not denied the quotes attributed to him, however.
Dip, dop, a-dippity.
Yeah. I'm pretty sure we've all seen that. It changes nothing.
How did his comments help his former teammates?
He said
"On Sunday, it was lifting, film, dinner and practice," Clemons told Schad. "I usually got out around 10:20. I truly don't want to be associated with the program back there. But I am going to help benefit my teammates back there by speaking and giving testimony."
Obviously he didn't understand the rules. The specific activities he cited were permissible if undertaken voluntarily. See http://mgoblog.com/content/jihad-second-they-dont-know-rules.
Equally obviously, he in no way helped his "teammates back there". Rather, he harmed them.
Nobody did.
That was the fucking point. Even the guys responsible didn't know exactly who counted as a coach for a countable hour.
Clemons wasn't responding to "do you think Michigan was purposefully violating NCAA regulations?" He was asked what Rosenberg asked all the others: "how much did you practice." His article didn't say anything about the rules, because Rosenberg's article didn't even bother to figure out how the rule is enforced.
As such, Clemons's response basically boils down to "Yeah, man we practiced a lot. We practiced a shit ton, and when we didn't practice we practiced practicing and when we weren't doing that we were working out, and when we weren't doing that we were doing study time, and every once inawhile fucking Lloyd would call you in and grill you on literary differences between Thoreau and Maus -- I've never worked so hard in my life!!! Oh, and the new strength coach -- the guy sets WOLVES on you if you're going slow!"
Which, other than the eeeeeeBarwis and Literature with Lloyd hour, is probably the response you'd get from any varsity collegiate athlete as to the ACTUAL (as opposed to NCAA-countable) commitment they make to the sport.
As we all know, Rosenberg cares less than nothing for the program under Rich Rodriguez. But, presumably, Rosenberg does care about his personal professional standing. And as an avatar for "the mainstream media," the Free Press clings to notions like ethics, ethical rules, and editorial guidelines.
And the editorial guidelines at the Free Press concerning anonymous sourcing stated that anonymity would only be given where required, with the approval of the highest-ranking editor available, and that anonymity would only be granted to subjects who asked for it out of whatever personal concern that they had for divulging information. Not just any personal concern would be cause for an extension of anonymity. It woud have to be a personal concern that a Free Press editor, judging it objectively, would find worthy.
Clemons openly acknowledges that he spoke with Rosenberg during the period in question. There is no doubt in Clemons' mind, that Rosenberg was interviewing him for the infamous August 2009 story. Clemons, as we all know, says that he never asked for anonymity; that he had no concerns about his interview with Rosenberg. (Rosenberg has never given anyone the chance to listen to any of his complete interviews.) Clemons, it would seem, is a perfect, prime example of someone who had no business being cloaked, by Rosenberg, with any source-anonymity. The extension of anonymity in Clemons' case (and how many others, we just don't know) would have been a clear violation of Free Press ethics. (By the way, the Free Press has changed the way that it displays its ethics policy at Freep.com, since the August 2009 story.)
If you were to confront Rosenberg with this apparent ethical lapse, his answer is, "How do you know Clemons was one of my sources?" And in that respect, Rosenberg has a perfect point; he might well have interviewed Clemons at the time, and even interviewed Clemons for the story, but perhaps Rosenberg did not actually use the Clemons interview material in the piece. Which is a completely brilliant, and utterly despicable answer, on the part of Rosenberg. It is a question that only Rosenberg can answer, and he won't. So there. Rosenberg's and the Free Press' position on its anonymous sources is essentially that we don't get to know anything about them, or, most significantly, the process by which they were granted anonymity. If you think that this maddening, circular, problem is the reason why so many press critics have big problems with modern uses of anonymous sources, you'd be right. (That, and the little problem of not knowing whether sources for a story might have held grudges against the subject(s) of the criticism. See, e.g., Boren, Justin; Boren, Zach; Boren, Mike; Boren, Hope.)
And this too, with respect to the other sources: Rosenberg originally wrote that he gave his sources anonymity because "they feared retaliation from coaches and others..." The waves of criticism of that absurd pronouncement has caused Rosenberg to try plan B. Rosenberg now says that he wishes he had written that differently. (Since, uh, malcontents like Boren, or Johnny Sears, or Mallett, or Kurt Wermers would have nothing to fear from Michigan coaches under whom they no longer played, and no reasonable fear from their own coaches.) Rosenberg's fallback position is that the players might fear "retribution"(!?) from NFL scouts, others in the business of football, and also "general retribution." In that latter case, Rosenberg appears to be referring to all of the public flame-mail that he and Snyder have recieved. Boo fucking hoo.
So again; Clemons happens to be a unique window into the ethical lapses of Michael Rosenberg. Lest you think that I have gone a little overboard on this business of the ethics of granting source-anonymity, remember this, my little Wolverines: Rosenberg's entire story was worked up on nothing other than the July 2009 CARA memo (in which the auditors found no reason to suspect any NCAA violations) and his interviews with his chosen anonymous sources. Anonymous sources were the entire foundation of the story. And Rosenberg's story was substantially wrong.
Rosenberg did his story with no FOIA materials. We know that because Jim Schaefer of the Free Press issued a huge FOIA request after the story ran. Rosenberg did not interview anyone form Compliance Services. Rosenberg did not talk to the coaches, or the Athletic Department. Rosenberg and Snyder quite literally took all the necessay steps to make sure that everyone in Athletic Department administration knew nothing about the story and could not comment on it, until Rosenberg and Snyder went into Bruce Madej's office on the Friday before the story went out on Freep.com on Saturday, prior to Sunday print publication, to, uh, give the University a chance to comment on a story they had been secretly working up for a month.
That, my fellow Wolverines, is what we are dealing with, in the person of Michael Rosenberg.
Compare, if you will, this portion of the Free Press Ethics Policy:
5. We demand fairness
We are committed to fairness and balance in all aspects of our coverage and presentation. These principles are foremost in building trust with readers. To that end, we strive for journalism free of favoritism or prejudice. We recognize that pure objectivity is impossible, but we demand fair coverage. We vigorously pursue comment from all subjects in our coverage. We attempt to examine the many sides of issues and strive for balance among competing interests.
Please try not to barf on your keyboard.
TL;DR
how were his greener pastures?
I do not know anyone by the name of Toney Clemons.
he must have a glass navel. How else could see where he is going with his head so far up his ass.
To be fair, the interviewer's question pertained to RR's implementation of the spread ("square peg in a round hole"), and if I recall, Celmons' comments to the media last year were limited to practice time and whether coaches were observing 7-on-7 drills.
So he's not contradicting himself, since his commets to the radio station aren't inconsistent with his comments to the media last year.
We all thought his "I know what really happened" comment last year reeked of bitterness and hostility toward the program, but in retrospect, that comment only came after his credibility was put at issue.
It's possible that all this time he hasn't really harbored the hostility toward the program that we all thought he did and that the Freep and other media outlets just used his comments in a way that made it seem like there was more turmoil within the program than there really was.
Phony Clemons in my eyes. Fuck him and the Buff he rode in on. NTTAWWT.
This was some tl;dr nonsense. Maybe I shouldn't have edited it, but whatever. The point of the comment was I don't like the position we are in as a fanbase with regards to Toney Clemons--calling a college football player a traitor and hoping he gets raped--and I'd like to know where to direct my butthurt hurting butt. All I know is I'm much happier when I'm not thinking about Toney Clemons.