ohiobuckeye21

March 12th, 2013 at 9:39 PM ^

As a buckeye fan this is the last thing I wan't to come here and comment on but from what I have read it kind of sounds like we have one player being accused of forcing himself on someone and the other two kinda seem like they are named as being present at the time... maybe witnesses. I would have to assume (even though I know your thoughts on Urban) that if all three were actually being accused of this type of crime than all three would have been released from the team. Based on the names being thrown around Urban Meyer has dismissed players with a lot more talent for a lot less of a crime. Again no facts here just been reading a lot of the stories because my oh shit meter went through the roof when i saw this.

Blue in Yarmouth

March 13th, 2013 at 8:49 AM ^

So if only one actually did it, but the other two stood by watching you would think only the one deserved to be put off the team? I would have to say the other two should be gone two if that is the case. I can say this honestly...If I ever walked in a caught someone assaulting a girl (friend or not) I would kick their ass. 

I should also say that if that is what happened (they caught him and ended the assault and are witnesses in that capacity) then I take back what I wrote in the first paragraph, but I would think if that were the case this would have all progressed much faster with two eye witnesses who stopped a sexual assault. 

gbdub

March 13th, 2013 at 10:49 AM ^

"Witness" doesn't necessarily mean physically present for the alleged crime. Someone mentioned that one of the players may have relevant cell phone records, and that's what they're after.

This is why speculation is bad. "OSU player may have material information related to an alleged crime" turns into "Buckeyes stand by while woman gets raped".

cozy200

March 12th, 2013 at 9:57 PM ^

If all three are indeed freshmen.. This falls directly on urban no? His character radar (save for jesus tebow) has been a bit off his entire career so is anyone really surprised there are issues like this with his first class of recruits?

ohiobuckeye21

March 12th, 2013 at 10:24 PM ^

as stated earlier in the post, you cannot pin this on Meyer because two of the three with the third not really known at all were heavily recruited by MIchigan and coach hoke and i believe had offers from Michigan. I agree with the arrest record from florida it doesnt look good but i believe coach hoke had as many maybe more than urban.

bostonsix

March 12th, 2013 at 11:03 PM ^

A pretty extensive Google search on Hoke and player arrest records and all I could find was fitz Toussaint and Darrell stonnum dui offenses, and frank Clark, ffor stolen property. Nothing from ball state or sdsu showed up. Sothis "if not more than Meyer" sounds like a defence statement unless you have a link. Not trying to be a Richard about it, I just couldn't find squat.

ohiobuckeye21

March 13th, 2013 at 12:03 AM ^

not very extensive i guess all i did was google players arrested under brady hoke and there is a link to a michigan website called hokeamania or something that looks to have been written rights after toussaint was arrested and says since hokes arrival there have been 8 players arrested. and typically players from ball state, sdsu, or even urban's bowling green and utah teams being arrested dont make the news unless its something serious.http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&ved=0CGIQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhokeamaniac.com%2Fbad-hoke-bad%2F&ei=E_c_UceTNYLn0gGjwYEI&usg=AFQjCNGi9B1MqBAFYygZYiEpLegSygg1EA&sig2=lzV6bzjIreS75kanS_NvHw

bostonsix

March 13th, 2013 at 12:52 AM ^

The three players I named. I know the article claims 8 but who are the other 5 and what did they do. Your extensive search brought up I what found. Again not trying to be a jerk, but as posted by another mgoblogger Clark is the only one who Hoke has recruited as well. I'm sure Meyer will do the right thing and I'm not attacking his character, but I don't think Hoke has more arrested players than Meyer. Maybe that's because he hasn't been in the limelight as long as meyer, but for now there seems to be hardly any evidence to your claim.

ohiobuckeye21

March 13th, 2013 at 11:13 PM ^

and for ball state hoke had atleast a few arrested players up there the most interesting one being his own nephew for a dui a month or so after another kid with same charge and that didn't take a very extensive search to find. I am not trying to bash brady hoke and or Michigan, just trying to make the point that it happens to a lot of players at a lot of programs under a lot of coaches.

Mlaw2010

March 12th, 2013 at 10:56 PM ^

Actually, your facts are wrong. Pittman had an offer but tried to commit and was turned away. Dodson had an offer but I don't remember him ever being heavily recruited by Hoke. It's entirely possible that Hoke offered based on talent and then eased up for character reasons. Not saying that's what happened, I don't know - just saying Hoke didn't heavily recruit either player.

As for arrest records, I think you're better off looking at players brought in by the coach. Hoke has had 2 1/2 classes now (1 1/2 that have been on camps) and only Frank Clark has been arrested from the group he brought in. Meyer has had 1 1/2 (only one set that has been on campus) and already 2 of the players he brought in are tied up in these horrific allegations. Urban has a history with low character kids and this seems to perpetuate that.

ohiobuckeye21

March 13th, 2013 at 12:14 AM ^

your right, i'm sure hoke turned pittman away cause he could sense he was going to be trouble, and i guess the dodson offer was one of the offers you get where the school just sends you an offer cause they dont want you. urban also has a history of national championships but thats because he made it clear to them to go out and get into as much trouble as possible and it would help them win games.... at the end of the day it is not urban meyer nor brady hokes job to babysit these kids there are people paid by these universities for that.

Mlaw2010

March 13th, 2013 at 2:52 AM ^

Whoa there, Bucky. Calm down. First of all, every kid that Ohio offers that doesn't end up in Columbus didn't have a commitable offer. Second of all, you didn't even address the point - Hoke has been at Michigan a full year longer and has had fewer of his recruits implicated in wrongdoing in that time than Urban has. You recruit kids with high moral character (Ferns, Morris, RJS, Biggs, Pipkins, Bolden, Funchess) and they stay out of trouble. You recruit kids who think they're entitled cause they play football (and not school) and they are at risk for tat-gate and real legal issues.

ohiobuckeye21

March 13th, 2013 at 6:45 AM ^

And you didn't recruit Pryor? Pretty sure there were tears shed by many MIchigan fans and coaches when he chose Ohio State. You can act like all the kids Michigan signs are saints but at the end of the day they are probably just doing a better job of not getting caught doing dumb stuff. And lets be real, every one of these kids being recruited by these 2 schools feel entitled because at 15, 16, 17 years old people like you and myself are on websites talking about how great they are and how we cant wait to have them on our teams.

B1GHouse

March 13th, 2013 at 9:34 PM ^

According to ArrestNation.com
OSU arrests since Meyer's hire on Nov. 23, 2011:
Bri’onte Dunn (July 2012)
Dominic Clarke (January 7, 2012)
Jack Mewhort (June 2, 2012)
Jacob Stoneburner (June 2, 2012)
Storm Klein (July 6, 2012)

Michigan arrests since Hoke's hire on Jan. 11, 2011:
Fitzgerald Toussaint (July 21, 2012)
Frank Clark (June 2012)
Will Campbell (April 7, 2012)
Josh Furman (February 11, 2012)
Marvin Robinson (November 2011)
Darryl Stonum (May 6, 2011)

B1GHouse

March 13th, 2013 at 9:34 PM ^

According to ArrestNation.com
OSU arrests since Meyer's hire on Nov. 23, 2011:
Bri’onte Dunn (July 2012)
Dominic Clarke (January 7, 2012)
Jack Mewhort (June 2, 2012)
Jacob Stoneburner (June 2, 2012)
Storm Klein (July 6, 2012)

Michigan arrests since Hoke's hire on Jan. 11, 2011:
Fitzgerald Toussaint (July 21, 2012)
Frank Clark (June 2012)
Will Campbell (April 7, 2012)
Josh Furman (February 11, 2012)
Marvin Robinson (November 2011)
Darryl Stonum (May 6, 2011)

erald01

March 12th, 2013 at 10:38 PM ^

To win national titles you have to take risks on some of the recruits..if u notice there is a trend with succesfull coaches and the risks they take with recruits..alabama does it, lsu does it, Meyer did it in florida..so dont be shocked on yearly basis if osu is landing some dirtbags as players thats the risk these coaches take to win national titles..u want to run a clean program? Then your not going to have those kind of chances on being a national title contender..lhow do u think Tressel was sooo sucesfull? Look at some of the players he had, 70% of them had huge character flaws BUT they won consistently year after year..as much as i want michigan to be a fair clean program sometimes i think we will nevr get to that level if we dont take chances on some of these players

Zone Left

March 12th, 2013 at 11:06 PM ^

The assertion that the best programs focus on character risks but Michigan somehow does not is hugely innaccurate. Who of that 70% of Tressel's players did Michigan not recruit? Maurice Clarett had a Michigan offer. We would have loved to get Terrelle Pryor.

Truth is, most of Tressel's players were just like most of Michigan's players, who are a lot like LSU's and Alabama's players. They are really talented kids who chose to attend a certain school for their own reasons, despite having many other opportunities.

The idea that 70% of OSU's players under Jim Tressel had serious character issues while our noble warrior-poets fight a futile battle against evil is absurd.

bostonsix

March 12th, 2013 at 11:46 PM ^

that 70% of Tressel's players had character issues is absurd, but if players like Clarett or Pryor decide to come to Michigan would they be influenced in a better way to stay out of trouble, or is it just a matter of time until we land one of these recruits that brings shame to UM. I truly believe that most of these players with character/ attitude problems end up not picking Michigan because we don't offer the "perks" other schools might, and we certainly won't turn a blind eye to their behavior. I just don't see it being luck that our recruits stay clean for the most part. The RR era had me worried a bit, and I guess that's where Pryor might have bitten us.
On this Ohio state thing, I wouldn't be suprized if Meyer kicks all of them off the team regardless, just because Ohio can't afford to have their name tarnished anymore and to make an example to the rest of his players. The only thing that will lose Meyer his job right now is the perception of a dirty program.
Sorry if that came off wrong it's meant to be more of a 50/50 question statement

MelchDaddy

March 12th, 2013 at 11:55 PM ^

I think it's a good point to mention that Michigan recruits a lot of the same players. What I would like to believe is that once they get to Michigan, our coaches do a better job at educating them and instilling qualities that will help them succeed and make good decisions

It seems that it may not only be the types of kids the programs recruit but the culture of the programs once the recruits arrive. If players are put on a pedestal and allowed to take shortcuts or get away with small and petty things, they can start to feel invincible. Ultimately it can lead to situations like the alleged one here or those last year at ND.

MGoStrength

March 13th, 2013 at 5:10 PM ^

Anyone think it's more about how the coach handles the player after he gets there more so than who is actually recruited?  For example could it be that Meyer and Tressel give preferential treatment and let more slide whereas Hoke demands accountability and treats everyone the same?  Both coaches would likely take the players, but it's HOW the coaches handle the players once they get there that makes a difference in how much trouble they get into.

Wendyk5

March 12th, 2013 at 10:41 PM ^

It seems sort of petty to get enjoyment out of this event. I know no one is upvoting rape, but even feeling a sense of superiority over OSU feels wrong to me. I still get pissed off when people bring up our past issues with a tone of superiority (and yes, I know they're not nearly as serious). I'm so happy when OSU loses, but this doesn't make me feel good at all. 

janel

March 12th, 2013 at 11:29 PM ^

I've been googling tonight and Dodsons instagram account has a message about his phone being stolen (confiscated per the warrant I assume) on the 10th.  His girlfriend is the other name mentioned in the document that wasn't redacted and shown by the news.  I hope the truth can be found and justice will prevail. 

BILG

March 12th, 2013 at 11:34 PM ^

Columbus usually does a good job covering up such incidents....at least for a while. At least we can still count on Norte Dame to cover up such incidents.

bronxblue

March 12th, 2013 at 11:45 PM ^

I wouldn't put any of this on the OSU coaching staff or culture; rape isn't tolerated anywhere and people who perpetrate it are driven to do so by their own instabilities, but it will be interesting to see how this is handled.  Meyer will definitely boot them if they are guilty, but he also has a bit of a reputation for letting wayward guys stick around if they can be advantageous.  

bronxblue

March 12th, 2013 at 11:50 PM ^

Will say a winner on that board said that women sometimes lie about sexual assaults, which only, you know, flies in the face of fact and history.  Sexual assaults are likely the most under-reported major crime in the US, and the least conservative claims for false reports is still under 8%.  So yeah, there's a chance, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

vablue

March 13th, 2013 at 2:26 AM ^

And Mike Tyson for that matter. I used to work for the counseling services of a big university. I can say for a fact that it is both very under reported and also has a huge number of false reports. Both of which are almost impossible to account for statistically.

bronxblue

March 13th, 2013 at 11:36 AM ^

I never said they were mutually exclusive.  I know that both occur.  My point is that far too often people will claim the outlier is the case (in this instance, that it is a false report) because it makes them feel better, not because there is much logic/factual support behind the claim.  But sure, keep jumping to conclusions.

gbdub

March 13th, 2013 at 5:19 PM ^

"a winner on that board said that women sometimes lie about sexual assaults, which only, you know, flies in the face of fact and history". How can something that is demonstrably true fly in the face of fact and history? It's not jumping to conclusions to take you at your word.

Your follow ups make me believe what you really meant was that reported sexual assault allegations are true most of the time, making an assumption that they are false without further information illogical. This is of course true and I agree, but not what you originally said.

I hoped my invocation to take a formal logic course would come across as obviously tongue in cheek, but I guess we both failed to make ourselves perfectly clear.

bronxblue

March 13th, 2013 at 11:34 AM ^

I don't argue that false reports occur (and the Duke lacrosse event was so scandalous that it was blown out of proportion by everyone as soon as it was even hinted at), but I've seen this way too often with athletes.  People don't want the guys/team they've been rooting for to have any bad apples, so there is a subset that will immediately claim that the victim is probably making up or falsely claiming whatever happened.  Hell, when those MSU engineering students were beaten up a couple of athletes years ago (and I'm blanking on the names), people claimed the students must have started it.  Of course, all facts proved it to be a largely-senseless attack by some football players.  I'm not ignoring the reality that sexual assault is a difficult topic and incredibly grey at times, with the potential to destroy lives both of victims and false victims, but I'm personally bothered by the "blame the victim" mentality that pops up so often with situations like this.  You don't have to agree - that's the great thing about having an opinion - but a couple of cases where false accounts  were made isn't going to change my take that false reports really don't happen that often.  

And BTW, I never saw real evidence that Tyson wasn't guily of sexual assault, other than some veiled claims that the victim had falsely accused a boyfriend once.  If you have other evidence, I'd like to read it.

M-Wolverine

March 13th, 2013 at 11:14 PM ^

In less than the last year that were found to be made up.

http://police.umich.edu/

It's not a majority or even close, but it's not incredibly rare either.

And isn't that true of a lot of crimes? What percentage of people prosecuted for murder are wrongly accused?

Even if it is under 8% it really sucks if you're in that 8% and probably isn't any solace that the other 92% deserve far worse.

State Street

March 13th, 2013 at 7:34 AM ^

Oh please, folks.  We had a player, albeit not three of them, accused of the same crime only a few years ago and he has become one of the most beloved players on this board.

I'd say some of these comments are a bit premature.

Burning Beard

March 13th, 2013 at 8:07 AM ^

The ABC story was horribly written (which I assume is why they redacted it), but let's get this straight: Of the three people involved, the one who is accused of committing sexual assault is no longer on their team, one is currently on the team but appears to only be listed on the warrant to have his cell phone confiscated for evidence at this time, and the third was a recruit who did not commit to Ohio.

mgobaran

March 13th, 2013 at 9:02 AM ^

Thought better of it to stay away. Proud of you guys for not getting it locked up. It appears no one got sent to Boliva either! Way to go MGoBloggers!

Outside of that, this is terrible news. Hope it turns out to be a false accusation. It is just better for everyone if no one got raped.

2Blue4You

March 14th, 2013 at 9:21 AM ^

Nov. 10th incident.  Hmmmm, throw a blanket on this until we finish the undefeated season, play Michigan and serve our bowl ban.  The break the news in March on the verge of March Madness.  I thought Friday was the best time to break this stuff.