Thank you RR

Submitted by Maize and Blue… on November 27th, 2011 at 9:13 AM

I just want to give a quick comment on what a great bunch of recruits you brought in during your short stay here.  Most of the kids stayed when it would have been easy for them to bale because they didn't necessarily fit the new scheme.  We have a lot of talent coming back next year which would be your first full recruiting classes senior/rs junior year and I look forward to great things from them.

Hoke and Mattison took your young D and helped shape and mold them into a very good defense.  Seniors congratulations you finally got the type of season you expected when you committed to the University of Michigan. Go Blue!

Comments

tbeindit

November 27th, 2011 at 10:10 AM ^

I agree with the defense remarks, but not the offense.  We may be scoring more points, but you can't claim that isn't due to factors such as improved field position, the emergence of Fitz, and a better kicking game.

Seriously, imagine if we had a kicker in some of the games last season, a lot of things could have changed.  Along with this, imagine if our offense didn't start on our own 10 yd line and we had somebody else capable of running the ball.  I assume you could blame RR for these failures as well, but I think our offense was pretty capable, we just had no special teams or defense to get the field position or field goals and Fitiz's injury last year didn't help his development, something RR had no control over.

I agree, I'm perfectly happy, but I think the offense's "improvement" has a lot more to do with other factors than better play on that side of the ball

cbuswolverine

November 28th, 2011 at 12:16 AM ^

Yeah, the "someone" who cured Gibbons' mental problems was probably Gibbons.  The point of your comment is to give the current coaching staff credit for Gibbons' improvement, which is ridiculous when we don't have anybody on the coaching staff who knows the first thing about kicking.  If you don't want to give credit to Gibbons for his own improvement, then find out who he pays for private coaching in the offseason and give credit to that guy.

jmblue

November 27th, 2011 at 2:37 PM ^

I don't recall anyone here ever making that argument before the season started.  Everyone had given up on Gibbons (except Hoke, thankfully).  The hope was that Wile - another freshman - would be our kicking savior.

 

Orion

November 27th, 2011 at 10:36 AM ^

1) It's not the same players because a) every upperclassmen who played last year is now a year older - that experience is not insignificant, b) we have several players that were not available last year, like Morgan, Ryan, and Countess, that are making contributions this year and c) we are a lot more healthy. As evidence I present a comparison - last year's starting secondary for OSU: Freshman Avery, Kovacs, Vinopal, and James Rogers vs. This year's starting seconday for OSU: Freshman Countess, Kovacs, Woolfolk/Gordon, Floyd. Yeah same players.

 

2) Again, just about everyone on last years offense is now playing on this years offense. They are expected to be better based on the acquired experience alone. They weren't. It's hard to say that last year's offense wasn't good against big ten teams when last year's offense basically had to score on every possession because the defense was such a disaster. Put this years offense on last year's team and we don't make a bowl game.

blue in dc

November 27th, 2011 at 10:52 AM ^

We scored 7 points against Ohio State last year - how is that the defenses fault? This year the offense also had the pressure of having to score almost every serious against Ohio State and somehow they managed to score 40 points (ok 38 if you take away the safety). 38 points would have won the Ohio State game last year

Reader71

November 27th, 2011 at 12:05 PM ^

I think you're being way too hard on this year's offense. True, if they were coupled with last year's defense we might not have made a bowl, but that has a lot more to do with last year's defense. IT WAS AWFUL. One of the worst ever.

Contrast that with this year's offense. Decidedly not awful. Not one of the worst ever. 

So, while you may be correct in your assumption, it doesn't matter one bit in the real world.

And, shouldn't the fans of the program that lives by the motto "The team, the team, the team" care about more than just offense? Yes. This is why RR failed. If he were Bo, he would have said, "The spread, the spread, the spread". Fine for an offensive coordinator, not fine for a head coach.

Get over it.

mtzlblk

November 27th, 2011 at 1:54 PM ^

$200K and no contract = GERG hire. 

 

$650K plus multi-year guaranted contract = Mattison hire = AD supporting the HC with what he needs to succeed. 

Also, Junior/Senior defense with no injuries and upperclassmen in the backfield > that freshman/sophomore defense with no DBs older than sophomore or an real experience on then field. 

Much Better DC + experienced/whole defensive unit > GERG + freshman/sophomore

No one should be at all surprised at the progress the defense has made this year.

 

 

dcwolverine1993

November 27th, 2011 at 2:24 PM ^

Gerg wasn't his first DC.  Funny how people just skip over that.  RR didn't even give Shafer a hole year to prove himself (funny how folks claim RR didn't get enough time to prove himself, but RR had no problem dropping his DC after 1 year).  Shafer has done well at every stop as a DC, except for Michigan.

The defense was a disaster because RR refused to let a DC hire his own staff and run the defense the way it should be run.  No quality DC was going to come to Michigan while RR was here, no matter how much money he was allotted, because RR would not provide him with the autonomy needed to hire his own staff and run the their own type of defense.  But don't let that get in the way of your fairy tale

Reader71

November 27th, 2011 at 5:38 PM ^

$200k = GERG = worst defense in Michigan history

$??k = Bill Busch = Utah state's defense is better than Michigans.

I don't think Utah State is paying top dollar for their DC. And I'm sure they have some underclassmen.

UTAH STATE HAD A BETTER DEFENSE THAN MICHIGAN FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!

Does this illustrate our point. We aren't talking about an underwhelming Big Ten defense. We are talking about Michigan -- the winningest program in the world despite RR's three awful seasons -- having a worse defense than the UTAH STATE MOCS.

How can you be serious?!

stetgor

November 27th, 2011 at 9:49 AM ^

Ironically, I was reading the last portion of Three And Out last night after the game and the very same thing struck me.  By all accounts, RR is a great guy and it certainly appears he brought in a lot of the same.  Kudos RR and best of luck out west.

blue in dc

November 27th, 2011 at 10:56 AM ^

We had a very solid defensive line and reasonable corners, while we looked weak at safety and linebacker, we also had some pretty crappy coaching in those positions. I suspect that Hoke, Mattison and company could have turned that crew into at least an average Michigan defefense (which based on some earlier posts on the subject would have lead to about9 points less scored per game)

realfootballfan

November 27th, 2011 at 1:42 PM ^

I agree that there were some solid pieces on defense in 08 but it was hard for them to get any momentum going because they were on the field all the time. We had Nick Sheridan and Steven Threet being protected by a patchwork line and handing off and throwing to people who hadnt really played in real games.

evenyoubrutus

November 27th, 2011 at 10:03 AM ^

You found Kovacs, Jake Ryan, Thomas Gordon and Desmond Morgan. You got Countess to love Michigan so much he committed after you were let go. You got Craig Roh, and likely a handful of others who will emerge as the future of our soul crushing defense. Your coaches may have messed it up for you but you still have laid a foundation that will benefit Michigan for years to come. Thank you, Rich.

mtzlblk

November 27th, 2011 at 1:57 PM ^

and, let's be sure to judge the current coaching staff after a few years of success and not one year with a weak schedule in a down year for the Big 10. 

If Urban Meyer comes into OSU and gets them back on track, you might be singing a different tune if he can use his system and once again dominate the Big 10. 

Reader71

November 29th, 2011 at 1:08 AM ^

I suppose you mean the spread. I don't think many of us care about that. In fact, we love Hoke and Borges, and they have run the spread almost exclusively (particularly late in the season). Our problem with Rich isn't philosophical (offensively, at least).

He put out the three worst defenses in Michigan history. They actually got worse every year. His special teams may have been worse than the defenses. Those two phases of the game caused him to have the worst tenure of any of Michigan's coaches. This is why we "sing our tune". He couldn't win, because he didn't care (or he didn't know, but I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt because he is a "genius") about anything other than offense.

For the record, we don't think Urban Meyer will entirely ignore defense. His Florida teams were damn good at defending people. I don't think anyone will be surprised when a hugely successful coach wins at a traditional powerhouse.

Also, we certainly can judge our coaches on one year with a weak schedule and a down year for the Big 10. The last three years have also feature bad Big 10's. Ohio was certainly better, but we didn't have Nebraska. And the 2010 non-conference schdule of UMass, UConn, and Bowling Green isn't any stronger than this years, but guys like you thought going 7-6 should have saved Rich from being fired.

You can't have it both ways.

HarBooYa

November 27th, 2011 at 10:21 AM ^

Mattison converted same great kids into a real top 15 defense. Rr and his coaches he hired had them hovering around Mac status. Further borges has produced more points with same great kids. And special teams actually is functional with the same kids.
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<br>The guys hoke tacked on to this class and convinced to stay contributed immensely. And even so, the wings on the helmet do most of the recruiting around here of the 3 and 4 star talent. My point, love the high character guys that stuck through it but feel bad they had to. Feel great for guys that get to reap benefits of their toiling And Wait until Mattison gets the 5 star guys to come in. Then you can really start thanking rr. Insert sarcasm here.
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<br>The worst 3 year stint in our history with the same guys. Enough said. Thanks rr.
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mtzlblk

November 27th, 2011 at 2:03 PM ^

from a simple person

your lack of any in-depth knowledge of what has actually transpired is so indicative of the group who now think that 'everything is okay now' it is sad.

Life must be easy there on the surface.  

 

The Barwis Effect

November 27th, 2011 at 10:27 AM ^

...this would be the one.
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<br>Wasn't it RR himself who used to say "we're only going to talk about players that are part of our program"?
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<br>Today would be a great day to follow his lead and limit our talk to the players and coaches that are currently part of this program.
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<br>Nothing good can come of another RR debate, especially on the day after the program's biggest victory in the last seven years.

jippolito

November 27th, 2011 at 10:40 AM ^

What a bunch of douchebags. Two minutes into a glorious new We Can Beat OSU? era and you want to rehash the past. 

- Oooooh, I have a zinger that's going to win this flame war. Just...can't...resist...the submit button.

OP saw fit to thank Dickrod for bringing in some character guys who can play football well, which, uh, dreadlocked and yes . Unless you're trying to argue that no, he brought in a bunch of POS riff raff, you should sit down, watch a replay of the game, brew some chamomile tea, and let go of all the rage. Things are looking up for us.

jippolito

November 27th, 2011 at 7:04 PM ^

Sorry, didn't realize your wittle feelings were on the line here. Michigan's good again. Good enough for me. Apparently not everyone else who wants to plant their "BEST FAN EVER!!!" flag on each other's face.

I don't know what there's to argue about in this thread: I like Denard, Odoms, Shaw, Koger, Kovacs, and all the other players RR brought in. I assume the rest of us do as well. So yes, thank you for the personnel, old coach.

chewieblue

November 27th, 2011 at 10:42 AM ^

But I would say talent evaluation was probably one of the worst things about his tenure.  A few recruiting hits and a lot of misses.  

All in all, who gives a s*hit?  We just Beat OHIO !!!

Go Blue Beau

November 27th, 2011 at 11:05 AM ^

We just won as many Big Ten games this year as we did the last three years combined. 10 wins too, not 15 in three. Sorry, I don't miss Arizona's coach. Not to mention we just beat Ohio finally. Just ride the Hokeamania train and be happy.