R Kelly

May 8th, 2011 at 12:54 PM ^

In my opinion there is no bright line rule determining the number of "chances" a player should get.  Nor do I even know what exactly constitutes a "chance" in this situation.  I think each player should have their individual circumstances looked at.  A coach should then look to precedent to see how he has made similar decisions in the past, and then come up with a final punishment.  Given the facts I know, which are very limited, my decision, if I were in Hoke's place, would look similar to what I laid out above.  You are entitled to your opinion about what his punishment should be and that is fine; reasonable minds can differ.  

archangel2k12

May 8th, 2011 at 12:31 PM ^

I hope he gets his degree, and as much as I want him on the field, he needs to sit the '11 season...hopefully he will comprehend the seriousness of the matter and thank the University and Coach Hoke for the rest of his life for helping him instead of abandoning him.

MichiganExile

May 8th, 2011 at 12:10 PM ^

What kind of disciplinary precedent is there for a situation like this?

Despite the teams's need for a deep threat I'm not sure I like the idea of giving him a third chance.

Steve Lorenz

May 8th, 2011 at 12:13 PM ^

If he isn't booted, it will really negate a lot of the shit we are able to give Sparty for running such a joke program as far as discipline is concerned. 

Steeveebr

May 8th, 2011 at 8:05 PM ^

F*** him and his future so that we can continue to make fun of sparty!  Heaven forbid!

 

I'm not saying that there is no justifyable or right reason to kick him off the team, but seriously?

mackbru

May 8th, 2011 at 12:13 PM ^

Yeah, I just don't see any way around severe punishment. Also, Hoke has to make a statement. A kid shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of a statement, of course. In this case, though, the kid has earned the punishment.
<br>
<br>This isn't his second offense. It's really his fifth (counting the parole stuff). Stonum has shown contempt for the law. At minimum, he should be gone for half the season. But I wouldn't argue if he gets kicked off the team altogether.
<br>
<br>Are you listening, East Lansing? Anyone home, South Bend?

mackbru

May 8th, 2011 at 12:49 PM ^

Right. I meant probation. It's early out here on the West Coast. Forgive me. But breaking probation is still very serious, and can amount to a felony. In this case, it probably will.

the_white_tiger

May 8th, 2011 at 1:04 PM ^

PAROLE

n.

  1. Law.

    1. Early release of a prisoner who is then subject to continued monitoring as well as compliance with certain terms and conditions for a specified period.
    2. The duration of such conditional release.
  2. A password used by an officer of the day, an officer on guard, or the personnel commanded by such an officer.
  3. Word of honor, especially that of a prisoner of war who is granted freedom only after promising not to engage in combat until formally exchanged.
  4. Linguistics. The act of speaking; a particular utterance or word.

tr.v.-roled-rol·ing-roles.
To release (a prisoner) on parole.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/parole#ixzz1LmVFlXpw

PROBATION

n.

  1. A process or period in which a person's fitness, as for work or membership in a social group, is tested.
    1. Law. The act of suspending the sentence of a person convicted of a criminal offense and granting that person provisional freedom on the promise of good behavior.
    2. A discharge for a person from commitment as an insane person on condition of continued sanity and of being recommitted upon the reappearance of insanity.
  2. A trial period in which a student is given time to try to redeem failing grades or bad conduct.
  3. The status of a person on probation.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/probation#ixzz1LmVPOdZ3

IT IS NOT THE SAME THING!

And my count is:

  1. Stonum receives DUI, is put on probation
  2. Stonum violates probation, goes to jail
  3. Stonum gets second DUI.

outwest

May 8th, 2011 at 7:02 PM ^

I am curious as to what the DUI laws are in the state of Michigan.  Here in Oregon, after your first DUII you are given the option to go through a diversion class (basically a don't drink and drive class).  After successfully completing this course, the DUII is removed from the driving record.  The deal breaker in all of this is that if you receive another DUII in within 5 years of the first, the first one and second one goes on the driving record.  

Not all states offer this type of class, but I would be curious to know if anything similar was offered to Stonum, and if so I would think that would change the team decision on how to handle his removal from the team.

 

Pdeaner

May 8th, 2011 at 8:53 PM ^

It is the same in Indiana.  Also with the 2nd in five years it also becomes a felony.  Also you don't get caught twice when you have only done it twice.  He has made a habit out of this.  

Happyshooter

May 8th, 2011 at 10:52 PM ^

No. In Michigan you get at least an impaired conviction for your first arrest--depending on how well your attorney is connected. That means big fines, probation, and paying extra state fees for years.

You record never clears. Even if your first one is at 21 and your second at 90. On the second it means jail time.

The christers and soccer moms have really screwed up our laws here.

Steve Lorenz

May 8th, 2011 at 12:18 PM ^

You weren't a football player on full scholarship who is a representative of much more than the football team itself. This is such a tired argument. There's a little bit more responsibility on his shoulders than you had when you were in college. Not to mention he's already been given one chance. 

OMG Shirtless

May 8th, 2011 at 12:21 PM ^

Did those of you hoping that Hoke permanently kicks him off the team realize he already addressed this?

@chengelis: Hoke left an opening for Stonum -- "if he fulfills all of the commitments to the legal system and our program."  

 

@chengelis: Hoke: "We will provide the appropriate support and counseling in order for him to learn and grow from this mistake."

 

 

LSA Superstar

May 8th, 2011 at 12:29 PM ^

Two DUIs means you have a serious alcohol problem on an almost per se basis, because it means you're unable to control your drinking even when you have obligations (like needing to drive somewhere) that will directly clash with the action of drinking.

Probably the last thing he needs during a period of time like this is to be thrown out of an organizational institution that probably provides most of his time, love, and support.

That being said, there's a difference between getting the help you need and getting to wear the wings in the Big House. I think the "suspend him for the year" thing is the answer here - he's got a redshirt left. If he wants to use it he can, or he can move on. That way it's his choice and will foster rehabilitation rather than punitive retribution.

So... I guess what I'm trying to say is that Hoke seems to be handling it perfectly based on his comments so far. Hope his actions down the road back that up.

Hugh Jass

May 8th, 2011 at 12:29 PM ^

"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?"      

I would counter with this statement to the contrary:  "Baseball got it wrong, there is no way a man can walk with four balls."

JBE

May 8th, 2011 at 12:40 PM ^

I hope Darryl can get it together, and Hoke allows him to stay on. Have to think about what's best for the kid, and structure is usually a positive entity.

NateVolk

May 8th, 2011 at 12:38 PM ^

Hoke's first priority is what is best for the person. With that in mind, it is highly unlikely he'll play at all this season. First off, he'll very likely do jail time for no less than a month as a repeat offender, possible probation violator.  Figure that won't start until mid summer.

The theory that bringing kids back immediately is somehow better for the kid than him paying a real price for his actions doesn't wash.  We have seen it applied over and over at Michigan State and it has created chaos and lack of accountability.

 

 

neoavatara

May 8th, 2011 at 12:40 PM ^

...about the support to dump Stonum for 2 DUIs...impressed, but surprised.  I was sure I was going to get attacked.  

We are Michigan...we should be better. 

somewittyname

May 8th, 2011 at 6:12 PM ^

I was trying to keep it simple for the sake of clarity because I hate when a survey has too many options and each choice garners like 10% of the vote or "other" gets 50%. So I think I'll just leave it as is for better or worse. Also too lazy to change it.

Edit: 13 votes for full season suspension, 6 votes for kicked off team, 6 votes for < 4 games.

bryemye

May 8th, 2011 at 1:02 PM ^

Two DUIs? C'mon, man.

Hopefully he gets his life together and learns to make decisions that aren't dumb.

He's got to be gone for the year. The only part of me that has the least bit of sympathy is the part that recognizes this is a young man.

Also -1 for Freep.

MGoKereton

May 8th, 2011 at 1:03 PM ^

As much as I want us to have the best chance of winning, if Hoke lets him play this season with a "don't do that again plzkthxs" attitude, I'm going to be very disappointed.  It would be a very Sparty thing to do.  2 DUIs is nothing to sneeze at.

 

gater

May 8th, 2011 at 1:13 PM ^

I liked the "make him redshirt this year" solution. It will give him a year to work his ass off in a structured enviroment while still being punished. I would hate to see what happened to Boubacar, happen to him; leave the structured enviroment with no prospects and have his liffe fall apart even more.

SC Wolverine

May 8th, 2011 at 1:15 PM ^

This is especially important as Hoke's first discipline case that will really impact us on the field. For that reason he needs to hit hard + provide institutional support. Given the severity of the offenses, I will be disapolpointed with anything less than a full season ban. Gotta establish a culture of high expectations and accountability.

no joke its hoke

May 8th, 2011 at 1:16 PM ^

22 should be thrown off the team. I'm all for giving a kid a second chance but he is a fool and should be gone. Dont give me "he's just a kid" or "well this is the first mistake he made since Hoke has been coach",he is a fool and culd have killed someone TWICE now. Throw his ass off the team.

natesezgoblue

May 8th, 2011 at 1:31 PM ^

im gonna disagree with kicking him off the team...he's a senior and would have almost no chance to transfer anywhere else let alone playing in the league.  the reprucutions would greatly surpass the crime.  Hoke needs to punish him harshly but i believe there are other ways that can help him better in the long run.  

Sextus Empiricus

May 8th, 2011 at 1:42 PM ^

Hoke is handling this correctly IMO.  If Stonum can truly change - then the next step is his to take.  Hoke is right not to close the door until he has done everything to help his player.  Once he's off the team - Hoke really isn't going to be able to intervene.

Borges needs to be advised to game plan without a deep threat.  If Hoke and Borges haven't had that conversation then so much for the correct handling premise.

mtlcarcajou

May 8th, 2011 at 1:51 PM ^

I've also got people close to me with alcohol problems, some severe. Some were supported and helped; others were abandoned and punished outright, told to 'get some help'.

If not for being supported in their 'darkest hours', they might have ended up like the ones who didn't get any - drugs, prison, increasingly severe addiction, even one missing and presumed murdered. Often extreme stress piled on top of something like this makes someone reach for the bottle again quick. What might not be necessarily an addiction problem can rapidly spiral into one.

He has to be supported, taught, mentored monitored - and of course forget about playing football the season, which is a privilege and an honour that cannot be bought back by a couple of 'Mea Culpa' sessions.

He should at least be allowed to finish his degree. Trust me, if this has happened twice and the approach is 'abandon ship' (which Hoke clearly is not going to do), it can destroy someone permanently, and possibly become very harmful to others.

loosekanen

May 8th, 2011 at 1:59 PM ^

I appreciate what he has done for the program but two DUIs is a dealbreaker in my book. At this point I hope they can get him the help, get him his degree, and keep football on the back burner.

Hill.FootballR…

May 8th, 2011 at 2:02 PM ^

Hoke has done exactly what I would do. You have to realize that this is a kids life we are talking about. if you throw him off the team with no help or support, forget football for a second, but it would be very unlikely that he would graduate as his entire support system in Ann Arbor would be stripped away. Even if he did want to return to try to graduate, could he afford it? So basically the people on here who think he should be kicked off the team believe that would could possibly be drinking to beers and driving across the subdivision (we don't know exactly how he got either DUI and although I have NEVER drove after drinking I know my cousin got a DUI for the exact same scenario i just described) that we should strip away his chance of graduating. Furthermore, if we leave him now with nothing, aren't we just increasing his chances of being mad at the world like some kids get when they are abandoned and just increasing the chance that he does not get help and does this again. I don't care about football but if we kick him off the team, he has nothing to work towards and thats when teenagers make terrible decisions and personally I believe that Hoke would be somewhat responsible if he drove drunk again and seriously injured himself or someone else next time. Give him help, give him hope to make up for a very serious mistake, let him have a reason to turn his mistakes into positives later in life. I don't know exactly what he has to do or when Hoke would let him get back on the field but I will let him decide that seeing as he is the only one with all the facts in front of him. 

IMO, I liked the sit out a year and play as a redshirt senior plan, but if Hoke decides differently by either making it half a season or a season and a half I will be fine with it since he has the facts. You don't throw your family on the street when they make a mistake do you? Well we hear that this team is a close family so for everyone that says he should be kicked off the team i STRONGLY disagree with you.

SysMark

May 8th, 2011 at 6:12 PM ^

This would be easier to digest if you just cleaned up the grammar and sentence structure, and used a few more paragraphs.

Having said that, I am all for support, having experienced significant alcoholism and its effects in my own family.  However, a full football scholarship at a place like Michigan is a huge privilege, not a right.  Two DUIs is probably going too far.  If is he is allowed to continue he should consider himself extremely fortunate.

After all he must have heard in those classes he had to take, how is he right back behind the wheel drunk?  Let's face it, he doesn't get it.