JWG Wolverine

January 10th, 2018 at 12:20 AM ^

I somewhat am in the same place. But for me, "basketball mode" is just having my attention be centered on hoops, with moderate attention on football as always. I don't almost completely shut out football when it is not the prime season for it like I might do with basketball, hockey, or softball.

Michigan Football is the big show at U of M,  and it constantly gets at least my partial attention because of that.


January 10th, 2018 at 12:36 AM ^

I am not capable of (or interested in) feeling that way. I don't care whether other fans join me in the sentiment, but for me, football is The Deal(TM) and all the other M varsity sports are lesser distractions that I nevertheless invest in (except to a distinctly sub-football-investment extent) because I love Michigan and therefore all of its sports' successes to some minimum (but still meaningful) degree.

Football is the only one I can max out on. I bet most fans here feel that to an extent, though I'm sure their definition of extent is different from mine. What may also be different for me is that after football, basketball doesn't rank second for me, either. Hockey does. Then basketball (because it's a revenue sport and garners attention) is situated some margin above the collection of gymnastics, swimming, softball et al.


JWG Wolverine

January 10th, 2018 at 12:16 AM ^

Have always loved this podcast since it started, behind MGoPodcasts, it is #1 in my feed. Very hIghly recommend this show, and just never got around to posting links myself.


January 10th, 2018 at 12:29 AM ^

Some of Luke De'mellos hype videos on YouTube early this year. He's not just another hot take podcaster. He uses statistics and is very logical in my opinion, and definitely doesn't regurgitate other sports media's content. I loved his video of calling out the refs on holding calls missed on Michigan this year. It was a truly excellent video.

Occam's Razor

January 10th, 2018 at 12:41 AM ^

Steve Deace's podcast has gotten better as the year goes on. 


I truly feel his pain and agree with this points, but sunshine blowers will still call us haters. 

Truly frustrating time to be a Michigan Wolverine. 


Michael Spath's point of about the RBs getting held out to dry attempting to block DTs and DEs  instead of LBs when the Oline whiffs is very interesting... 


January 10th, 2018 at 12:25 AM ^

Eh, he called Jim Harbaugh Brady Hoke.  Stopped listening at that point.  Also on an August 8th podcast he admitted at the 47 minute mark that Harbaugh was going to be rebuilding in year three, knowing how much youth was on the team.  Blah, blah, blah.

Frank Chuck

January 10th, 2018 at 12:57 AM ^

He acknowledged that the team was rebuilding after losing that much talent.

His overarching question was, "how can the team put up such a horrible performance after 15 bowl practices?"

Bowl practices (and a bowl) are often a springboard for young teams heading into next season.

Michigan fans can keep their head in the sand but I refuse to lose sight of a few things:

1. Our 19-3 lead was built largely on USC miscues. IIRC, we had just one normal/sustained drive that we converted into a TD for the entire game.

2. We went from a +3 turnover differential to a -2 turnover differential in less than full half.

3. Jim, the supposed QB Whisperer, struggled to field an effective passing attack with a competent QB.

Peters looked worse in the bowl game than he did in any of his previous starts. Where was the improvement?

Frank Chuck

January 10th, 2018 at 7:57 AM ^

Some context: I remember when Peters was a 3 star. I watched his junior tape and knew halfway through that it was probably a matter of time before Peters was bumped into a solid 4 star. He had the look of a player that goes to a lower tier power 5 school (say Purdue) with a high powered passing attack, puts up great numbers, and finds his way to the NFL. After he committed to Michigan, Peters excelled as a senior and absolutely had the look of a future star.

I don't know what happened this year but our offensive staff, by and large, was garbage. When Pep Hamilton was hired, I was concerned. I remember watching Stanford play when he was OC and he never struck me as an elite coach. I also follow the NFL closely (having worked in the NFL) and he didn't impress me in Indianapolis either.

I want to see Michigan transition toward a power spread. I think a more open passing attack with creative route combinations but simplified reads (for QBs and WRs) would do wonders for the offense. There's a number of reasons why freshmen and sophomores QBs can step into spread attacks and put up huge numbers while pro-style offenses are unforgiving to underclassmen.


January 10th, 2018 at 5:28 PM ^

Peter's is the only QB Harbaugh recruited that has started for him. And I'm not blaming Harbaugh for Peters having a shit work ethic, being unable to learn the playbook, and sulking and whining when that caused him to be named 3rd string and thus continuing to stagnate and not progress.  Every recruiter misses sometimes, Harbaugh just had the bad luck of missing on his first qb recruit which is far worse than missing on 2nd, 3rd, or any other, especially when there's nothing left over there from the previous regime.


January 10th, 2018 at 6:29 PM ^

Love Harbaugh but calling BS on this. It's the system not the qbs. It's too complicated. Look at speight, okorn and peters performances. All scared as hell to make mistakes. Also, all slow in the pocket. Only Rudock picked it up and look how we fared against OSU that year at home. 


January 10th, 2018 at 1:34 AM ^

I mean, these things have all been discussed pretty much to death.  I've listened to the mgopodcasts, WTKA podcasts, and have read most of the threads here.  There isn't really anything new or insightful anyone can bring at this point that hasn't already been mentioned. I mean, even the points you cited about the bowl game have already been discussed at length here and on other outlets.  There isn't anything to be gleaned at this point by discussing it further.  It just comes off as, "I have issues and these need to be addressed because they are issues."

There isn't any bit of me sticking my head in the sand, I'm upset at the bowl game and the progression of the quarterbacks.  Everyone will pretty much say that they knew this year was a rebuilding year, but there is just such a dissatisfaction and the need for immediate solutions.  That's just not going to happen until we are up and firing on all cylinders.  As much as people probably don't want to hear it, I'm with mgrowold in thinking next year could be 8-5 or 9-4.  The schedule is brutal.  The youth will not be that much older.  We start off at a very tough place to play and those bastards hate us.  Absolutely hate us.By no means am I an apologist - I'm just tired of the instant satisfaction and "we're paying Saban money" crowd.


January 10th, 2018 at 12:59 AM ^

I probably will.  I guess I've just had enough of the criticism on this season.  I did scroll through some of his other podcasts to see if I was being too shallow, which is where I came upon his comment about 2017 being a rebuilding year.  Before the season started, he was stating that unlike other coaches building a program, Harbaugh would start building his this year.  To contrast that with calling this season "Brady Hoke" just made me roll my eyes.


January 10th, 2018 at 1:38 AM ^

it definitely sucks right now but Steve Deace really is a huge Michigan fan. He's definitely frustrated like the rest of us. Even though he has his pessimistic moments, he's typically optimistic and his view points are always based off of stats with a dose of logic. Every body is sick of the "Next Year" mentality, and I think the fan base has reached a "Seeing is believing" stage. I know that's where I'm at right now, and watching Harbaugh making changes immediately after the season ended tells me he understands this year wasn't acceptable and he's not going to "keep pumping the well" like Drevno, or Borges. To me that's a good start, but I still need proof against good/great competition before I get my hopes up again that we have a shot at a Big 10 title or beyond. (posting from mobile so I couldn't start new paragraphs, apologies).

Frank Chuck

January 10th, 2018 at 2:55 AM ^

1. How does a Jim Harbaugh-coached team put up a Brady Hoke era joke performance after 15 bowl practices?

Context: Michigan was the biggest Big Ten favorite when the match-ups were announced. Big Ten was a perfect 7-0 heading into this game.

2. What happened to Brandon Peters.

Based on his bowl performances, Steve called him a taller John O’Korn. In other words, Peters flunked his audition.

3. Why did Michigan blow double digit leads in their final two games of the season?

Blew a 14-0 lead to OSU.
Blew a 19-3 lead to SCar.

4. How did such a high-priced offensive coaching staff (which supposedly features a QB Whisperer as HC) produce the worst passing attack at Michigan since 1975 (when Michigan ran option with Rick Leach)?

2018 Michigan had just 9 passing TD passes. Michigan's ROI on the 2017 offensive staff was poor.

5. Why is Harbaugh just 8-7 at Michigan in games player after November 1st?

He doesn't have an answer but he dismisses the "that's when we play better teams" line of thinking.

6. Was the 2017 season 2005 or 2013?

My quick commentary: This is anchoring bias. Deace is searching for an analog (which isn't unnatural since humans are conditioned to search for patterns/similarities).

Deace is using the ND games the following year to understand if the previous season led to improvements. Why? Because 2018 Michigan will start the season in South Bend.

2005 Michigan started as pre-season #4, blew a number of 4th quarter leads in various games, and ended up with 4 regular season losses. 2005 Michigan was a favorite over Nebraska in the the bowl game but lost. All this culminated in major off-season changes and 2006 Michigan responded by starting the season strong, including a beatdown of #2 Notre Dame in South Bend, and an 11-0 season.

2013 Michigan started as pre-season #17, looked good for 2 games (including the night game over Notre Dame), and then the warning signs started (with a near loss at home to Akron). That Michigan team ultimately limped to a 7-5 regular season and was outclassed in the bowl game by KSU (partly because a true freshman Shane Morris was forced to start in place of the injured Devin Gardner). The following season, Notre Dame shut us out 38-0 and that was the beginning of the end for the Hoke era. 2014 Michigan was worse than 2013 Michigan (despite having a lot of talent which flourished under Harbaugh in 2015 and 16).

So his question: Will 2018 Michigan (by way of the ND game) show that 2017 Michigan team is more like 2005 Michigan or 2013 Michigan?


January 10th, 2018 at 11:46 AM ^

Honestly I don't care for the Hoke comparisons.   Hoke's trajectory was down from the first year and never recovered.   Harbaugh took a bad 5-7 team and went 10-3.  The following year had three razor thin losses.  This season took a step back due to OL and QB, and it's that simple.   I think the OL will be serviceable next season.   Defense will be good again.  It all hinges on solid QB play.


I dumped the Dope

January 10th, 2018 at 4:49 AM ^

We definitely had flashes of brilliance.

But inability to channel that brilliance into a higher level of constant is a true sign of youth.


And, something went wrong in or prior to the bowl game, which, unfortunately makes the offseason a hard bitter pill to swallow.

You send the monsoon rain clouds around ann arbor this fall, or read the safety's motion correct v osu, and or keep Peters' head from clanging off the turf in Madison and I think this is a much better story.  Extrapolate that to getting another first down in columbus last year and watching Blake ONeill drive the ball into the night sky and its a really good story.

Its close.  JH's job is to channel the distaste for losing into making more plays that makes the difference in these contests.

Icehole Woody

January 10th, 2018 at 6:24 AM ^

Peters is talented but he was not ready and behind the curve. Kind of like a third stringer going to starter over the course of a few weeks. OL and WR play did not help. Resolution to these issues takes time on the field.


January 10th, 2018 at 10:33 AM ^

This was a lost season. You have to look at Peters' performance as a positive in order to have an open competition for qb going into next season. Haven't seen Shea play. Milton's tape shows a mobile pro style qb with a cannon.

Whoever starts, I hope he has better skill options than this year (after Black got hurt), gets protection, and the play calling doesn't seemingly ignore the middle of the field.


January 10th, 2018 at 11:57 AM ^

Peters only had 1 bad game, and that was to a team that had a month to game plan/prep for a Freshmen QB.  His other games he looked servicable, and he was decently on point for the most part.  Everyone has been using the crutch that we looked poor because we had a month to gameplan for USCjr, and we shit the bed, but guess what?  They had a month to game plan for us too!  

To say Peters is washed up as a college QB just isn't real.  He was an underclassmen this year, he played some solid game manager for us, and he ran into a buzz saw in the bowl game.  I'm still optimistic about what he can do with a little help and more progression.  But I do think Shea is probably going to be the better option this year.  

Peter's high school tape he didn't exactly look like he had a cannon arm, but he did seem to place the ball well.  Once we get some guys around him to make plays, I think he can be solid.  


January 10th, 2018 at 5:37 PM ^

Peters was bad in every game, the most yards he had was the 186 (in 44 attempts) against South Carolina. He couldn't hit 200 yards in 5 starts, that's pathetic, he didn't even get close until his 14.1 QBR bowl game. He was rightfully put 3rd behind atrocious OKorn in the offseason because in a year and a half he couldnt learn more than a tiny fraction of the playbook. And then he sulked and stopped working because he was 3rd and we ended up running a shitty boring offense that he didnt even run well.