mgobaran

June 8th, 2017 at 3:47 PM ^

SBNation has been way too much about their own agenda lately. It's hard to read anything over there anymore. Everything seems preachy. It's no better than blowing smoke up the coaches butt the whole time.

People make mistakes, and back in 2014 Bob Stoops suspended a kid an entire year, while the NFL was out here suspending Ray Rice for 2 games AFTER seeing the tape! If anything Bob Stoops was progressive in his suspension. 

I'm not saying give Stoops an award for it, but you cannot backdate outrage. 

AAB

June 8th, 2017 at 4:31 PM ^

is not a mistake.  It is an intentional crime.  

 

And the NFL's handling of the Ray Rice situation was so egregiously terrible that it caused me and several others I know to stop watching the NFL completely.  That Stoops was marginally less shitty in his own handling of the situation does not mean his handling of it was appropriate or acceptable.  

Edit: also, many, many people (including Orson) raked Stoops over the coals at the time.  To claim this is backdated outrage simply isn't true.  

mgobaran

June 8th, 2017 at 4:52 PM ^

I should have clarified. I was refering to Stoops' punishment as the mistake. Stoops himself has gone on record saying if it happened today, Mixon would be off the team.  

You don't mistakenly hit a woman, and in no instance is that an okay crime. 

Mixon however did pay a penalty for his crime. His school went above that penalty and suspended him from football for an entire year. And I remember many people raking them over the coals after the release of the video. I don't remember, and haven't found an article in the past hour of looking for anyone stating this as a light penalty. I am also not stating that is was a harsh penalty. But in 2014 is was more than what most were getting. 

bronxblue

June 8th, 2017 at 7:58 PM ^

Stoops didn't suspend Mixon. He redshirted him. And people railed against it as soon as they found out about the situation, then again when the tape came out.

Mixon punched a person in the face and then ran away, initially claimed it didn't happen, then pled down when the tape was going to be released. Maybe he felt bad about it at some point, but neither Mixon it Stoops handled it remotely well.

Mr. Robot

June 8th, 2017 at 4:07 PM ^

I don't know anything about the first two he cites in the article, but I'm really not sure I understand why Joe Mixon continues to get so much coverage.

Someone correct me if I have something incorrect, but the incident between him and girl he hit started with the N word being directed at him and also involved a shove on her part before the infamous punch from what I recall.

Being a D1 running back, he is responsible for knowing that a normal human being is not a credible threat to him just for a shove and he absoltuely deserved the punishment he got for escalating it to that extent, but he was suspended for an entire year and received a criminal punishment for it as well, so frankly, I don't see what the problem is with him being allowed to move on with his life.

This is only still talked about because she was a woman, and while that is certainly relavent to many of the sorts of violent and sexual cases around football lately, I don't think the circumstances here make that fact weigh nearly as much. Doesn't matter if you're male or female, if you throw racial slurs at someone and then shove them, I don't generally feel sorry for you if you get punched for it. Its really the fact that Mixon has such a huge physical advantage over anybody save another football player that makes that level of escalation unacceptable, and he did pay quite handily for it as it is. From a purely football standpoint he was suspended for a year, which is way more than I recall anybody else ever getting for far, FAR worse than this, unless you want to count Ray Rice as lifetime just because he was cut and never resigned after only officially getting 2 games.

KungFury

June 8th, 2017 at 4:27 PM ^

Didn't we have a player not that long ago get kicked off the team for punching someone so hard in the face that they needed surgery. If it was someone else I am thinking of it doesn't change the point much, that it didn't matter man or woman or circumstance, they were gone because they used their supreme physical gifts to hurt someone.

Chuck Norris

June 8th, 2017 at 5:00 PM ^

"This is only still talked about because she was a woman, and while that is certainly relavent to many of the sorts of violent and sexual cases around football lately, I don't think the circumstances here make that fact weigh nearly as much"

 

No, It's still talked about because he wasn't kicked off the team. C'Sonte York was kicked off of Michigan in 2014 for breaking a dude's jaw outside Skeeps, and barely anyone remembers him. If York had been suspended, but stayed on the team, we'd be talking about him to this day.

Mr. Robot

June 8th, 2017 at 5:31 PM ^

York's was caught on tape too and he straight up sucker punched the guy from what I recall. We don't know what was said before that, but I certainly don't recall the other guy pushing him first regardless of what he was saying.

If York's situation were truely the same I have no problem saying he didn't deserve to get kicked off the team.

And I think the reason nobody remembers York has more to do with his not being the starting RB.

KungFury

June 8th, 2017 at 7:24 PM ^

York is who I was thinking of. And I'm pretty sure that the word around it was that the guy was talking crap. It doesn't matter. Because if you're physically superior to someone like that, you can't break their face. Joe Mixon has said himself that he was wrong and there is "no excuse" for what he did, yet you continue to try to justify it.
And you're also missing the point that if it were York at Oklahoma he would probably have been kicked off the team. The point is that Stoops kept him around because he was a superstar. There's no reason he should have been allowed to stay on that team. Make the excuse all you want that Stoops thought he could help him mature by keeping him around, but we all know that's a lie.

Jota09

June 8th, 2017 at 8:02 PM ^

He only admitted that because he was trying to get drafted and quell the public sentiment towards him. Same as a confession under duress.

It is funny to me that we all acknowledge how physically superior he is to that woman he hit. Do you not think that woman noticed this as well? Still didn't stop her from using a slur and shoving him under the chin multiple times. He is physically superior too me as well and I would expect to get punched if I did that and would habe deserved it. She escalated that situation and made it physical but skates off as a victim. Joe Mixon has to sit there and let someone commit battery against him and do nothing because he is too big. She picked a fight with someone and lost.

KungFury

June 8th, 2017 at 11:25 PM ^

I heard several interviews from him around the draft. It will obviously depend on your opinion, but he does sound genuinely sorry when he talks about it. Especially his interview with Mike Florio. Florio held nothing back and asked him every hard question he could and Mixon took it all. And in regards to your second point, Mixon also acknowledges that while she was the aggressor, he could have easily gotten her off of him without doing what he did. He easily could have restrained her. At no point did Mixon fear for his life. You can not do what he did to someone without fearing for your life. Doesn't matter if it is a man or a woman. Mixon openly admits this. Yet for some reason people want to continue to argue about it.

KungFury

June 9th, 2017 at 1:27 PM ^

I am not relying on his side of the story. I am just saying that I, based on what I have heard him say, belive that he knows what he did was wrong and feels bad about it. His story is irrelavent. What he did was wrong. Because he did not fear for his life (which he has stated), he did not have the right, legally, to use that much force. 

Mr. Robot

June 9th, 2017 at 11:12 AM ^

Again, nobody said he deserved to get off for this. When you are that much bigger than someone, a push like that does not warrant that kind of KO punch; only in cases where a shove like that is a credible physical threat.

What you seem to be missing is that he WAS in fact punished for this, and the punishment was not trivial, and yet you seem to want the punishment for this to last forever as if he had hit her right out of the clear blue sky for no reason at all.

KungFury

June 9th, 2017 at 1:23 PM ^

I mean sure, he went through the legal system and had that form of punishment. The problem is the lack of a punishment from Oklahoma. I mean, he was basically forced to take a redshirt year. The school kept quiet about it and just put him on the backburner while things cooled down. That is shameful on Oklahoma. THAT is my problem. Not with Mixon. And all things considered, while he is getting a lot of vitriol even still, in the grand scheme of things this has worked out well for him. He got a year off instead of beating down his body at a position with a short life. He got knocked into the second round, which allows him to hit his second contract, the one where RBs make their most money, a year earlier. AND he will have a chance to hit a 3rd contract if he pans out while most RBs don't last that long. I definitely don't think that the NFL should have any right to punish him for something that happened so long ago. But I also do not feel bad for the fan vitriol, because Mixon earned that. Part of his massive salary is to have all his dirty laundry blowing in the wind. 

Mr. Robot

June 9th, 2017 at 1:58 PM ^

I suppose that is a fair enough assessment, although the things that turned out well for him as a result were definitely not a sure thing at the time of the suspension. I think a 1 year suspension is still pretty hefty, even if it does ultimately turn into a redshirt year, but kicking him off the team is also not really a whole lot more of a punishment by that same token. If that happens he just transfers and the same thing happens anyway playing time wise, although perhaps his future would have been more damaged than it ended up being if his landing spot was significantly inferior to a program like Oklahoma's. Maybe from Oklahoma's point of view that is more the "right" thing to do even if another program is willing to associate with him, but I don't think it is a moral imperative to dissociate with someone who's mistake was born of being racially harassed and pushed, either.

To be clear, I certainly don't disagree that Stoops is as soft as too many coaches are on this sort of thing, and the OP article mentions those. I just don't think Mixon belongs as part of that discussion since I think the punishment for that is inline with what a coach who genuinally was trying to do the right thing would do.

Mr. Robot

June 9th, 2017 at 11:07 AM ^

I didn't say he was justified in punching her, I explicitly said he deserved the punishment he got specifically because he had a significant physical advantage. However, I feel that the punishment was just and he has served it, so Mixon should be allowed to move on with his life. As far as Stoops goes, you can believe whatever you want about his motivations, but a one year suspension IMHO is reasonable and he doesn't deserve to be called soft for that one regardless of what he's subsequently said to quell the public hyteria over it. If it had been York in Nixon's scneario at Oklahoma he may very well have been kicked off the team, but you don't know that, and even if he had, I would still believe that to be excessive under the circumstances.

It absolutely does matter what the other person is doing. If you harass and shove someone, getting punched for it is frankly deserved. In other words, if Joe Mixon was an average sized person for which a racially charged verbal salvo and a push from another average sized person isn't as trivial, then I don't think he deserved any punishment.

You don't get to play innocent victim because you target someone and they finished what you started. You reap what you sow. You can feel free to believe that retaliation is never justified if you want, but I personally disagree with that philosophy when you are maliciously, individually targeted physically or even verbally if the words are heinous enough. I won't go into life story details, but that feeling comes after many years of doing things your way and seeing exactly how that doesn't work.

I guess I will add too that while sucker punching warrants punishment regardless, if the guy York knocked out was throwing racial slurs out, York shouldn't have been kicked off the team for it. Suspended for a while, absolutely for blindsiding, using more force than necessary on someone he has a huge advantage over, and frankly punching him at all in absense of him making contact first, but nobody should have to sit there and take that for nothing. If the "crap talk" was making fun of his position on the depth chart, or if York provoked it to begin with, then yeah, he deserved to be kicked off.

Fact is though that only the participants and a handful of witnesses ever know the full, true story of how anything went down, so we're left to judge based only on what we can reasonably know from collective testimony that has been reported on, so my opinions of the two cases can only be based on that.

The Krusty Kra…

June 8th, 2017 at 7:13 PM ^

Because he continues to be an unrepentant ass. Ripping up his ticket and blowing it at the traffic officer that gave it to him, while more childish than dangerous, is unbecoming behavior for someone who is supposed to represent the university and is being given an education for doing so (we'll save the pay the players debate for another thread.) Suppose she did call him the n-word, he can't go and sucker punch her like that and expect that he can continue his life like nothing happened. I'm not saying he didn't deserve a chance for redemption but his non-apology and overall lack of remorse isn't a good look. Also, Mixon wasn't the only one, DeDe Westbrook was arrested twice then gave this incredibly condescending statement. 

“But as for me, I got in some trouble and I did some things as well, but I was never convicted of anything,” Westbrook said, per USA Today’s Tom Pelissero. “Like, I’ve been to jail, but all the charges [were] dropped. I have no pending charges or anything. So, I think I’m just like you.”

Hopefully Lincoln Riley actually makes his players learn a lesson or two when he decides to punish them.

Elwood

June 8th, 2017 at 7:14 PM ^

Was assault and not DV, if I remember correctly. DV has a psychological aspect to it (beating someone in a domestic relationship with).