Space Coyote Appreciation Thread

Submitted by JimBobTressel on October 29th, 2013 at 10:29 PM

Congrats you sniveling morons, you're on the verge of driving him off. I'd say 90% of you know way less football than you think you do and that's generous.

Space Coyote, as anyone who follows him on Twitter knows, literally breaks down the X's and O's of a game faster than anyone out there. Insanely intelligent.

My suggestion is to shut up and read. Literally the first time I've ever heard him driven to cursing.

This constant, idiotic, bull shit attitude where about a dozen people look at things Borges says and twist it, act like he's stupid and doesn't know shit, is really, really annoying. Someone the other day bitched about Hoke saying "most teams have 4 base runs and 4 base passes". "Haha, how stupid is that? How much are our coaches out of touch, eh?" Well guess what, most teams have about 4 base runs and 4 base passes.

People on this thread bitching about "we'll lock into some plays". Guess what, every coach at this level will lock into some plays. Why is it stupid for Borges to say, "alright, I don't want my college QB to get into a chess match with one of the best DCs in the country?" Why is it stupid to think Michigan's OC, that has tons of experience, might have a better idea of what's going on? Why is it, that if Borges calls a pass play that has a single high beater to one side and a two high beater to the other, that he needs to have DG have the ability to check out? 

People are bringing PSU nearly three weeks after it happened and still don't understand shit about what happened despite the attempts by some to explain "maybe it wasn't the greatest, but it was far from the worst. Very far from the worst." People keep bringing up "27 for 27" and don't even understand what half of it fucking means, don't understand the game situations that corresponded with it, don't understand that Borges in fact called 14 runs to RBs in the first 54 minutes, which if Michigan weren't trying to eat clock at the end, amounts to a very modest 17 runs in the game.

And then people use a bunch of BS logic. "How many QBs does Borges have in the NFL?" How many has Tressel had? Maybe Pryor? How many does Rich Rod have? Zero? How many does Meyer have? One from his Utah days? What the hell does this even have to do with successful college QBs? But let's bring up how a RS FR, for the first time ever, won the Heisman. Then lets disregard any actual knowledge of anything. Did he check into better plays? Did he run the offense against Alabama? Why are we comparing our QB to maybe the best QB in college football as if that is exactly what Michigan's QB should always be because it's the way it is in your NCAA football game.

But no, it's way too much credit to think an OC that's been in the game has even a functional knowledge of football. I think that the people that think this is his first time seeing a football game since he played Tecmo Bowl as a child are on to something. Oh God he's so fucking stupid that half the posters on here know he's an idiot and see things and understand things he has no idea about.

Honestly, this is getting beyond annoying. The posters here, at least a lot of the outspoken ones, are complete fucking morons that think because they are outspoken they are right. Maybe I should take a break from these boards, from these sites, and let it just degrade into idiocracy. Because I'm sick of every thread even tangentially about Borges turns into this "Hurrr duurrrr Borges dumb, he don't even know that you no can run out of formation not called spread". The wave of stupidity and ignorance mixed with unentitled arrogance that has washed over the board is overbearing. I don't mind debate, I don't mind different opinions, but opinions stated repeatedly time and again without even the effort to have any damn clue what your talking about, and then ignoring people that try to say "wait a second" time and again is exhausting.

Am I done here? Yeah, I think I'm done here.

Comments

Magnus

October 30th, 2013 at 9:39 AM ^

I'm not sure what a vaccuum is, but regardless, my site really has nothing to do with the discussion here. I don't think anyone brought it up but you. You're just throwing out random insults because you have nothing else to say about the topic at hand.

bleednblue

October 30th, 2013 at 12:05 PM ^

Obvious troll is obvious.  What a fucking internet meme using tool you are.  Fucking nerd. 

I watched plenty of Bo coached teams play.  Those teams were tough, played with grit.  Would never have been "bullied" by anyone let alone MSU.  This HC, team, and portion of the fan base represented on this board most frequently, are as soft as Hoke's fat fucking stomach.

 

mGrowOld

October 30th, 2013 at 8:49 AM ^

As one of the more vocal posters unhappy with Borges I have had several discussions with Space on the topic over the past several weeks.  While I respect his opinion I do not necessarily share it, but I agree this board will be a poorer place if he stops contributing.   I think one of the more enjoyable aspects of a board such as this is the debate itself with knowledgable posters such as Space.

I asked the question yesterday in the Hoke presser thread about his (to me anyways) seemingly blanket endorsement of all things Borges and he gave a reasoned and rational defense of his position.  Just like a week or so ago when I had a similar debate with The Last Hoke on the same topic and at the end I had to agree with many of his points.  That's what I thought a fourm such as this was largely for - the give and take of opinions and ideas with those who agree but just as importantly, those who do NOT agree, with our stated position.

I went back and read the thread that upset SC and unless posts were deleted I'm not quite sure which comment or poster was his "straw the broke the camels back" but if it was simply his inability to convice posters such as me that we should support Borges and his offensive game planning I think that's sad.  

 

 

MGoManBall

October 30th, 2013 at 9:02 AM ^

Since I was mentioned in his subject about his post not being directed at me, I'd like to say it wasn't my intention to start the huge Borges debate again. I was simply making a point about his several mentions of "minimizing the damage" and my assumption was taken out of context.

Space Coyote is one of my favorite posters here. I'm a schematic person myself and  can sit and watch film for hours at a time. So SC's posts and insight are particularly interesting to me. It would be a shame to see him stop posting here.

People are entitled to their opinion.. And I'm upset about the outcome of the PSU game as well.. but the "BLADFSDFWERSF FIRE BORGES" comments are growing old. 

Oh, and since we're on SC, I'd like to mention that he and LSAClassof2000's picture are similar in color schemes. So when I'm scrolling through a thread  I often stop at both of their posts. 

ND Sux

October 30th, 2013 at 8:53 AM ^

are always appreciated here. I can't break down plays like SC can, which is why I appreciate reading his (and Brian's) thoughts. 

Here's one thing I DO know from watching 45 years football.  Unless you have a DOMINANT running game (we don't), you won't run the football when the other team KNOWS 100% that's what you're going to do.   I was miffed about the stubborn running in the final drive in regulation against PSU, the one where we punted from midfield.   That game should have been won in Q4, and it's on the play calling, IMO.  I am NOT in the "fire Borges" camp though.   

You didn't have to be a football wizard to know what you saw happening there, and those of us who bitched about it were within our rights.  Also, I've watched enough night games to know that you LOSE the close ones on the road unless you make the kill shot when you have the chance. 

All that said, again I really do appreciate SC's breakdowns and insights.  I'd never argue those things with him or question his knowledge, but certain things are obvious even to regular fans. 

Space Coyote

October 30th, 2013 at 9:18 AM ^

I appreciate the support, but in all honesty, I agree with the people that say this thread is unnecessary. The point of my rant (and remember, it was just that, a rant) wasn’t even “I’m leaving for good”. The last line was actually about being done with that thread, because I was tired of arguing my point repetitively to people that didn’t want to listen, so I took many of the advice given on this board before it was even given. I’ve let many things slide, didn’t reply to many comments. That’s all fine and dandy. At the end of the day if I left this board it would fall anywhere from virtually insignificant to minor. This isn’t my blog. The top draw, as it should be, will always be Brian. I’m not so narcissistic as to believe my personal presence on this board is worthy of a post appreciating me, is worthy of half the praise I get. The fact of the matter is that I’ve coached high school football and studied the game from a coach’s POV since I was in middle school, because it was “what I wanted to be when I grew up.” So I have a fairly decent understanding of how the game works, I have a love for coaching and football, and this board is a way for me to do that while I can’t coach.

I’m certainly far from an end all, be all talking point about football. This is why my contention has and will never be “trust Borges because he’s forgotten more than you know” or simply “he’s been around for 20 years so shut up”. While both of those statements are true, in and of themselves they are fairly meaningless. Those statements are also true if they’re directed at me. Those statements are also true if they were about Rich Rod and directed to anyone on this board. So those statements include completely different schemes and philosophies and all that jazz. In the end, neither coach, scheme, philosophy is completely right and certainly neither is completely wrong.

I’ve been labeled as a Borges apologist, which isn’t really true, but I don’t care. In questions asked of me, I’ve answer that I don’t think Borges is a great OC, I think he’s merely above average. MGrowOld (I believe) asked me if there was anything I disagreed with Borges on or would do differently, I had a nice long reply saying that there is a lot I would do differently and disagreed on because of personal preference, but the point stands that it doesn’t make his preference wrong.

So that brings me back to what the whole rant was about, and what my argument has been about from the beginning. I don’t mind people liking the spread more, absolutely no issue with that what so ever, I think the spread is a hell of an offense. I have no people wanting bubble screens, great play when practiced in my opinion. I have no problem with people saying why they didn’t like certain game plans. I have no problem with a lot of things some people think I do, because frankly, a lot of it I personally agree with. I have a problem with people taking an answer from a press conference and then acting like Borges is a brain-dead fool when his answer is the same answer almost every other coordinator would give under the same circumstances. I have a problem with not even attempting to understand his perspective, why he called the plays he did, why he had the game plan he had, and acting like he’s so stupid that he has absolutely no clue while the obvious is so obvious that any and everyone else can see it. People have constantly brought up the argument about how they can make the argument because play calling isn’t really that hard. Well, they can argue things, they can have a preference for play calls, but their logic works against them. They are right, in the grand scheme of things calling plays is very simple. It’s the most predictable part of the job because to a large extent, you actually have control of the pieces (unlike Borges’s joke about not punching someone in 20 years, which someone also took in a snide way). It’s not all that difficult to call a play and think it should be executed, set up another play, and to take advantage of things the defense gave you. Those are all things Borges did. Maybe he should have called a few less runs with Fitz. Maybe he should have done a few things differently within his game plan, but the play calling itself is far from the issue. Blame the game plan that was set before the game, blame the execution which is still highly on the coaching staff, blame so many other things, but it seems to always go back to the simplest of things: play calling.

Look, I’m an engineer with a master’s degree. I’m a rocket scientist. I still make simple math mistakes sometimes, it happens. But if you’re telling me that if I make simple math mistakes time and time again, if I continually do the simple parts of my job wrong, that I’m going to keep my job, or keep getting new jobs, and someone, one of the thousands of other people that want my job, won’t get it, you’re wrong. There are literally thousands of people that would take Borges’s job right now if given the opportunity. Some of them are in coaching all across America at various levels, including DI, DII, DIII college coaches, many high school coaches, etc. To insist that Borges’s problem is that he can’t do the absolutely simplest part of his job, well, do you not see how that is insulting? Do you honestly not see how the constant comments that insist that he is a complete moron and often fail to substantiate their argument or not only don’t have a basis, but don’t have a foundation or backing at all, can be grating (and trust me, regardless of how many I skip over, there are still a lot lately). He’s not an idiot. Disagree with him, fine. But the constant twisting of his words and the simple-mindedness that goes into a lot of the insults, and to some degree, the at least indirect insults that have been put on me, have been tiring.

FWIW, I have absolutely no issue with Brian. I’ve said this to multiple people. I believe Brian has a preference, which is absolutely fine. Brian also backs up a lot of his preference. Brian knows more about football than 99% of people. He’s perfectly capable of forming opinions, and 95+% of the time I agree with him, which at most just adds another data point. There are the other times I disagree with him, and that’s fine, we both have opinions on the matter, different preferences, different ways of looking at things. I took issue at some point last week with something he said, and that’s about it. Brian is not to blame in this. All Brian has done was try to explain things from his perspective and give the resource (this blog) for which to do that. But there are certain groups of people that parrot him, and often times only parrot the conclusions or some of the tongue and cheek comments he makes. Brian himself said something along the lines of “I don’t even care if it’s a bubble screen or not, that’s just an example”, but people missed that. They missed the reasoning behind him using that example. And instead they just parrot “bubble screen” (this is just an example).

So that’s where I stand on this whole thing, this is a long post, and yada, yada, yada, there was a lot to say. I appreciate the support, but this isn’t necessary. When I was writing my posts for other blogs last night I did decide I was probably going to take a break from the comments here for a while, that’s fine. I’ll be back at some point hopefully. Hopefully by then some of the problems I have with the comments section right now will be minimalized. The problem isn’t other opinions, it isn’t debate, it isn’t disagreeing with me. I hope that point is clear. The problem I have with a lot of this stems from the other things I talked about. 

Also, my rant helped me pick up about 50 new followers, so that was kind of a cool, very unintended side affect. 

bleednblue

October 30th, 2013 at 9:29 AM ^

Thanks be to God that you decided to stay!  What would Michigan football be without you? 

Thank you for saving us from ouselves sir!  How on earth would we avoid the terrible fate of degrading into pure idocracy without  our beloved MGORocketScientist around to tell us all how it really is.

 

 

 

 

mGrowOld

October 30th, 2013 at 9:55 AM ^

So does this mean you'll still have a been with me before a Browns game someday?  

Seriously though - I hope you know I didnt ask that question yesterday to be sarcastic and I did appreciate your answer.  I just honestly wanted to know.

bml

October 30th, 2013 at 10:28 AM ^

"I have a problem with not even attempting to understand his perspective, why he called the plays he did, why he had the game plan he had, and acting like he’s so stupid that he has absolutely no clue while the obvious is so obvious that any and everyone else can see it."

thinking this way, even if you ultimately still think that doing X or Y was a mistake, is both more interesting and less frustrating as a fan.

akim

October 30th, 2013 at 11:17 AM ^

FWIW, I enjoy reading your input to educate myself, and i realize there's a lotof shit on the board, but my response to not really knowing about what Borges does in the realm of "right and wrong" is normally to just not say anything.  I think there is a great deal of value in having educated responses that disagree with Brian's points.  It helps us make a more educated decision in our criticisms one way or the other.

I'd wager that the bullshit is the loud minority of followers, and some of them are probably just falling into the mindset that the anonymity of the internet allows you to just blow your shit everywhere as a catharsis with no reprimand.

pescadero

October 30th, 2013 at 2:46 PM ^

"Look, I’m an engineer with a master’s degree. I’m a rocket scientist. I still make simple math mistakes sometimes, it happens. But if you’re telling me that if I make simple math mistakes time and time again, if I continually do the simple parts of my job wrong, that I’m going to keep my job, or keep getting new jobs, and someone, one of the thousands of other people that want my job, won’t get it, you’re wrong."

 

See - this is where you and I disagree.

 

I'm also an engineer.

 

I've seen people in large, profitable, multinational corporations continually do the simple parts of their job wrong - and keep their job. I've seen less qualified people hired over more qualified. I've seen UNqualified people hired over qualified.

 

The idea that any job in any field is a true and pure meritocracy just ain't reality. There is a strong correlation, but it's far from tight or absolute.

 

B-Nut-GoBlue

October 31st, 2013 at 2:50 AM ^

Hopefully you're back for talk about the Michigan St. game.  I know that sounds like a terrible idea after the past couple weeks but we're either going to be ecstatic or severly depressed and Borges will be a big part of that (oh, and the execution of the players and all that jazz).  Anyway, maybe not all that intriguing to think about but I for one will be eager to read discussions (maybe participate a bit) about what went so right for our guys and how Borges pwnd Narduzzi or soooo bad that everyone here will unfortunately be calling for heads.

Hello_Heisman

October 30th, 2013 at 10:06 AM ^

Plain and simple.  I've been reading this site daily for 2 years, finally got around to creating an account so I could post at the beginning of this year.  And while some of the posts along the way had their fair share of idiotic comments, the ability to downvote/upvote mitigated a lot of the damage and kept this place from reading like MLive, ESPN (pre-Facebook requirements), RCMB, Bucknuts and the dumpster fire that is Michigan's 24/7 site.  A lot of the discussion was pretty interesting and in some ways I found the boards to be equally as entertaining (if not more so) than the actual site content from Brian, Ace, Heiko, Seth, etc.

Once the ability to downvote/upvote posts went away, these message boards completely disintegrated.  I was in a thread 8 or 9 months ago debating with a couple reasonable OSU posters about why I thought that MGoBlog was a much better, more reasonable site than 11W from a poster's perspective.  I told those guys I would take the Pepsi Challenge and try 11W for a few months to see if they could prove me wrong. 

For awhile, I saw a lot of similarities between the two sites.  Some stupid delusional posters and threads, but a fair amount of respect for opposing fans as long as they didn't blatantly troll.  But over the last few months, I've actually found more intelligent conversation about Michigan football on a friggin' OHIO STATE blog than on a site that set the standard for what a college football blog site should be.  It's because the inmates are running the asylum in these forums now, and there's no way to maintain a level of intelligent posting without a few idiots disrupting the entire thread.  Or worse, just starting a total thread that is a complete shit show from the beginning.

We like to claim that Michigan as a fan base is somehow more rational than the likes of Little Brother, Ohio and the SEC but the reality is we're not.  Where MGoBlog used to be a reasonable safe haven for heated but (somewhat) intelligent discussion, the reality is that a bunch of these threads are now comprised of RCMB quality. 

I was never known as much of a contributor or frequent poster anyway (pretty obvious from my point total) but my activity has diminished significantly over the past 3 months because the discussions in these threads have become so asinine.  The main page content is still excellent as always and the mods and key contributors like Space Coyote and Magnus still churn out great posts.  But in terms of good back and forth dialogue among the broader group, it's just not there. 

The pulse of this site when you read through many of these threads feels like some kind of paranoid, Little Brother complex in relation to both Ohio and Staee, which is insane.  If this is an indication of what our fan base as a whole is turning into, then I pity future iterations of the Michigan football team who have to play for such a fan base.

Sory if this sounds completely "holier than thou" but the reality is that this post isn't intended as a call to arms for a number of the idiots on here to settle down.  It's a given that idiots are going to be idiots, so what I'm really hoping is that the good folks who run this site will take these words to heart and do what they can to reinstitute upvotes/downvotes and other moderation policies as quickly as possible.  The absence of this kind of policing has really started to devalue the site, which is a shame because it's still the best source for UM sports content that you can find.

Magnus

October 30th, 2013 at 10:54 AM ^

There was some sort of technical glitch with the site that caused them to disappear. I believe Brian said they would be fixed by the beginning of the season, but then they didn't get fixed. Now he says that football season is too busy, so they'll get fixed after football season. Considering basketball season is starting up, plus there's football bowl season and then National Signing Day and then March Madness, I wouldn't really expect things to slow down until April or May. Hopefully the site fixes don't take THAT long, because it's already having a negative effect...

Hello_Heisman

October 30th, 2013 at 11:02 AM ^

may not have always been used in the proper context, but I'd much rather draw a few negbangs that make me say WTF if it means that as a whole, we could better weed out the blatantly terrible/juvenile posters.  This is basically why I'm able to get some good dialogue on an enemy site like 11W.  Obviously most of their posters aren't going to agree with me, but the whole upvote/downvote process they have in place over there generally keeps the discussions pretty civil, as long as I'm not being blatantly insulting. 

HarBooYa

October 30th, 2013 at 10:40 AM ^

Happens when you have two bye sin one season.

Does the same axiom apply to fan blogs...No one fan is bigger than the whole fan base? Me love me some space coyote, but c' mon now fellas. Even space coyote says this is silly.

That said the constant din of saying this blog is "going down hill" and "sucks" is cliche. Make specific asks for improvement or move on. I am more annoyed by the "down hill" comments than the idiots as idiots are subject to the wrath of the board and the democratized internet. If you all complaining about the downward slide of the board want to cure idiocy you are in for a long day and a masichistic (msp?) experience every time you log in here or most places on the net.

TIMMMAAY

October 30th, 2013 at 7:04 PM ^

I agree with you. Brian should really be paying attention here (I'm not saying he isn't, but here we are). This blog is his product, he can do as he pleases, but it is a product. And his livelihood. Hopefully he bites the bullet and hires someone to fix this, the MGoBoard has always been a key part of this here site. It would be a shame to see it devolve further, once certain doors have opened it can be damn hard to close them again. 

TheLastHarbaugh

October 30th, 2013 at 7:40 PM ^

IIRC, users have offered to fix the issue in the past. I believe someone (I think it was Shock FX) actually reached out to him and offered to completely overhaul the voting system just because he loves the site. Brian said, "OK," and then Shock wrote the code to fix the problem and gave it to Brian, and he just....never used it.

Hello_Heisman

October 30th, 2013 at 10:57 AM ^

A specific fix was requested and it's something that proved to work relatively effectively in the past.  The reason why a lot of people are complaining about the site going downhill recently is because the previous checks and balances we had in place were removed.  It's not so much cliche as it is a recurring request for a specific change to be implemented.  Hopefully if enough people ask for it, something will be done.

 

Holmdel

October 30th, 2013 at 11:06 AM ^

Here to appreciate Space Coyote.  Extremely smart, thoughtful, diplomatic, wise, not an alarmist, not out to take unfair potshots at our authority figures just to make clear how smart he is.

The PSU aftermath was a very ugly time on this site.  I come here to get intelligent insights and also a positive Michigan football vibe.  I feel like Brian got too down and once he was down, too petulant and even narcissistic, and then an army of posters turned hysterical and dumbly decided Al B was the problem.  Space Coyote was the thing that kept this site from turning into an ugly mob of simpletons, and kept me coming back.