Some perspective on Denard and the defense

Submitted by Erik_in_Dayton on

Okay, yesterday was painful. There is no getting around that.  Seeing Denard take a little bit of heat, though, I want to point out the following:  Vince Young didn't beat Oklahoma until his senior year.  And Troy Smith, as a sophomore, wasn't even the full-time starter.  It wasn't until the Michigan game, the last of his sophomore year, that he really broke out and established himself.    Denard made only his sixth ever start yesterday.  To me he looked a little tight.  This is understandable in only your sixth start and in a rivalry game.

Yesterday was pretty brutal, but I don't think it's crazy to think about the fact that it would have been a whole different game if Denard's endzone passes to Roundtree, Stonum, and Junior had all been only slightly more accurate.  Greg Jones said himself that he thought it would have been a different game if Michigan had scored on its first possession. 

As for the defense, are they really any worse than what anyone expected?  The "guess the score" post on Friday had almost everyone picking a shootout.  We didn't get one only b/c of the mistakes mentioned above. 

Everyone remaining victory this year (assuming they happen) is going to be a shootout.  This is as most of us thought it would be. 

Next year, the defense will be much more experienced.  Only Ezeh and Mouton will be gone.  Woolfolk will be back.  They should be better (not saying much, I grant).  I realize this doesn't help this year, but again, who didn't expect every game to be a shootout?

Finally, b/c I can't resist, MSU has still only won 1/3 of their games against Michigan.  Let them have their little moment of glory and their "Paul Bunyan lives in East Lansing" sign.  Dantonio's demeanor and weird "winner takes all" remark before the game gave me the impression that MSU came into Ann Arbor yesterday expecting to win.   He's happened to become coach at MSU just as Michigan is having a uniquely bad run...He's also a good (but not great) coach, I grant...But things will turn around in Ann Arbor.  Pride will cometh before the fall for Sparty. 

neoavatara

October 10th, 2010 at 11:33 AM ^

I am certainly not one of those 'sky is falling' types.  

But yesterday was a wake up call.

On offense, Denard played his worst game.  That happens, and hopefully he will right the ship.  Clearly, there were 14 points or so that we lost right there.  

I think the big question is the defense.  I knew they were going to be bad...we all did.  And I don't even mind giving up huge pass plays once in a while, like Cullen and Rogers did.  That is to be expected.  But we didn't come close to stopping the run.  That is bad.  If you put 8 in the box, and get blown out, that is not good.  

I still think we win 7-8 games, which will be a positive season we can build on. But defensively, if GERG doesn't make some drastic changes, I see no point to keep him.  I have been on the bandwagon of "if we suck, at least play the young guys to build experience".  I still believe that.  What is the use of having a useless senior in Ezeh out there?  Kovacs is smart, but I would rather have MRob getting experience.  That is assuming that those players cannot be used in any successful manner whatsover.

I don't think these feelings are emotional outburst from the MSU game.  I think this a rational look at where we are.  Our offense will recover, and I knew with a new starting QB we would lose a game or 2 simply because of inexperience; yesterday was loss #1.  But defensively, I see no reason to be positive, this year or next, right now. 

RockinLoud

October 10th, 2010 at 12:29 PM ^

 But we didn't come close to stopping the run.  That is bad.  If you put 8 in the box, and get blown out, that is not good.

That's mostly on Ezeh and maybe Mouton from what I remember from those plays - and some no call holding by MSU's linemen (I don't have DVR to rewatch, so please correct me if I'm wrong).  This is what I've come to expect, our LB's unfortunately are just not good, and apparently the backups aren't either, and I am sad.  I don't know what the deal is, the players? Coaching? What?  I don't know, but it sure is frustrating.

RickH

October 10th, 2010 at 3:41 PM ^

Ezeh every single time.  I hate to blame one player, but he's the man in the middle, he needs to stuff those holes up instead of standing still behind Martin until an offensive lineman comes barreling down on him and throwing him to the ground (where he usually puts his hand down, gets away and barely touches the running back as he falls).

mgobluelaw

October 10th, 2010 at 11:34 AM ^

Vince Young didn't play his senior year... he lost to OU as a Freshman (I believe playing in his first collegiate game ever) and Sophomore. He beat them as a Junior en route to a National Championship.

umaz1

October 10th, 2010 at 11:42 AM ^

The way I see it there were 28 to 32 points lost out there. 21 for the 3 picks.  4 for the missed TD pass to Stonum that ended up being a FG.  3 to 7 for the end of the first half where we didnt leave ourselves enough time and missed the FG, could have been a TD as well with more time.  With those 28 to 32 points this is a completely different game. The guys will shake this off, learn from it, and turn it around for next week.

a7ooz2225

October 10th, 2010 at 11:43 AM ^

There's no denying that Denard is still a young quarterback. I wouldn't even call him a true quarterback last year simply because he didn't pose a threat to throw, he seemed more like an athlete playing the position. Only time will tell if he takes a step in the right direction after a loss, hopefully he can bounce back against Iowa. It will be interesting to see how Michigan's D plays against Iowa though. If they can stop the run consistently, they should have a better chance against Iowa's passing attack than they did against MSU's. I don't think the Iowa game will be as high-scoring as we all think, even though part of me says it will be judging by what I saw Saturday and Iowa's similar offensive strategy to MSU.

ShruteBeetFarms

October 10th, 2010 at 11:43 AM ^

If Denard was sharper on his passes yesterday, I think we would have ran better than what we did yesterday.

I know the D gave up some big plays, but I liked the aggressiveness. We didn't get dinked and dunked all the way down the field on every drive.

OSU put more pressure on Ben Chappel and he was not as sharp with his passes.

Hopefully, our D can play man coverage next year.

MichiganGoBlue8

October 10th, 2010 at 12:51 PM ^

This is just wishful thinking. Who misses Brandon Minor? I know our defense is horrible and who doesn't miss Brandon Graham. I'm just so desperate for one of our... What? Five running backs to come out and say I'm THE guy. Take some pressure off of Denard and the entire Michigan football community. I still love our team and I'm on one knee hoping that we stay focused, grow, and most importantly win. We've shown we can do it and need to put this one behind us.

jmblue

October 10th, 2010 at 3:11 PM ^

Our running backs are fine.  Smith, Shaw and Hopkins combined for 13 carries for 76 yards (5.8 per) against a defense that everyone is raving about.  I just think they should have gotten more touches.  We may need to call more straight handoffs to make sure our backs get enough carries.  They're not getting enough on zone reads.

Grumpy52

October 10th, 2010 at 11:44 AM ^

Ezeh and Mouton will be gone. They represent the worst Linebacking play in the history of Michigan football.Yet... nobody on the current roster, can beat them out for any playing time. So exactly how are things going to be better next year?

MGrether

October 10th, 2010 at 11:49 AM ^

We came into this season with some thinking we would struggle to win 5 games. We were 3 plays away from this being a hold your breath and hang on game (at I mean 3 plays that required a touch more accuracy or HANG ON TO THE BALL... nothing drastic or imaginary). I think our offense will bounce back, and get us to 7-5/8-4.

On defense, right now we are horrible. But, who would not be horrible with a secondary made up of freshman and position switchers? Seriously.  When your entire safety blanket are rookies to what they are doing, there is only so much as a DC you can do. I am willing to say that GERG's seat needs to be getting warmer, but willing to hold out until next year to give a verdict. We have gone through a couple DCs (so no consistency), had to overcome 5 years of bad recruiting at key areas (LB/DB/S), and a slew of uncontrollable departures via draft/injury/laziness.  Next year will be year 3 of GERG's system. Our entire secondary will be back with a whole year of game experience and our dline will be pretty much intact (with Black replacing Banks). Demens has to at least be on par with Ezeh. If we ROYALLY SUCK this much next year, GERG needs to go. If we see strong steps towards improving, ala our offense, then... well... we will be playing for a National Championship next year.

arod

October 10th, 2010 at 12:18 PM ^

but we are not playing for an NC next year unless Jesus H. Tittyfucking Christ himself appears and decides to play defense for us.  We are good on offense, but we are not Oregon, who firebombs even good teams, while we get shut down by MSU.  We are an infinite ocean of suck on defense.  Neither of these things will improve enought enough in one year to get us to content for a national championship. 

I don't mind an optimistic outlook, but all this "we're gonna be MNC contenders next year" talk is retarded.  We are not that good.  I'm sorry.

RagingBean

October 10th, 2010 at 12:03 PM ^

I think yesterday was one of those games where all the breaks go the wrong way. Denard slings 4 passes just off the mark that could collectively have given us a comfortable lead. MSU fumbles a snap but gets it back, they get stopped on 3rd and long but get penalized and convert through sheer luck, a tipped pass goes right into their receivers hands. That's just how it goes sometimes, and anyone who thinks there's no way we could have won the game yesterday is probably from the same crew that called for Rodriguez's head in 2008. I know this team will persevere and win more this year, we just have to do the same on here.

Louie C

October 10th, 2010 at 12:15 PM ^

Hat's off to MSU for the win, but you have to question their thinking. I had to chuckle when I heard them say they held Denard to "only" 217 in the air, and 84 on the ground. Seriously? I think those numbers still would have made any defensive coordinator have a Lynch-esque meltdown if they resulted in a victory. The three picks were the most telling stat, with the first arguably settting the tone for the rest of the game.

jblaze

October 10th, 2010 at 12:17 PM ^

but I don't think it's crazy to think about the fact that it would have been a whole different game if Denard's endzone passes to Roundtree, Stonum, and Junior had all been only slightly more accurate.

Maybe, but the issue is that if you are the opposing coach, you want Denard to make those passes and act like Peyton Manning in the pocket. You dare him to make those passes and if he does, fine.

jmblue

October 10th, 2010 at 3:22 PM ^

Well, I wouldn't say it's "fine" if he makes those.  MSU was on its heels in the first quarter.   Denard made some plays to get us into scoring position, but unfortunately made two bad mistakes that bailed MSU out.  A gameplan that basically relies on the other QB to make unforced mistakes (which the first INT and the overthrow to Stonum certainly were) isn't the most sound.  

I think we are seriously overrating Sparty's D.  They gave up 162 yards on 34 carries (4.8 avg.) and 215 yards on 29 attempts (7.4 YPA).  And that was with a ton of bad throws, missed blocks and dropped passes on our part.      

MichiganGoBlue8

October 10th, 2010 at 1:08 PM ^

Being a former athlete, and anyone else who can relate, I've been dinged up and had injuries. I was really watching Denard close in the Indiana game and when he banged his knee again my heart sank. When you are that kind of high level athlete everyday matters. When you have a nagging injury that can affect how you train throughout the week you aren't going to be yourself. After watching him this past game I have to wonder if his bad reads were a result of him not being able to prepare like he is used to. Also, especially on his second pick, I noticed that at times it looked he should have ran instead of throwing. He just looked to me like he had his mind made up to pass no matter what. This of course is my opinion and an outside observation. Based on the experience of being an athlete it's definitely a possibility. On a good note he didn't look to be limping or reaggravate anything. So hopefully he will be back to his old self this week and the rest of the season God willing. Denard's still my guy for the Hiesman. GO BLUE!

Indiana Blue

October 10th, 2010 at 7:25 PM ^

Though I believe the "injury' was mental.  Denard got picked in the endzone of the 1st drive of the game AND the 1st drive of the second half ... (anyone ever missed a 3 foot putt on the first hole ???  stays with you all day !)

My one question ... is why is Denard being asked to be a pocket passer in the red zone ?  This is where his gifted althlete ability gives him a tremendous advantage and puts extreme pressure on the defense.  If we go 3 wide to the left and Denard even takes 1 step like its a run ... then we'll have man to man on wideouts.  The LB and the safety will commit to stopping the run.  If Denard sees a hole then he's on his way  -  if not, he tosses to any of the wideouts and they go.

Denard is very good "pocket passer" on quick slants and quick outs.  I also think he throws a good deep ball ... but all of these need to go on his first read.  Since he only has limited game experience it is much tougher for him to go to 2nd or 3rd receivers.  If the #1 read is covered - I would prefer to have him just pull it down and create on the run, rather than go through his receiver progressions.  

Go Blue !

tlh908

October 10th, 2010 at 1:42 PM ^

I don't mind giving Denard some room to grow, as long as we also give Tate some room to grow.  I think more experience will help Denard to grow into the dominant QB he will become.  He smoked the easy competition this year and is now learning to take his game up a notch to smoke the elite level in the BT.  It is exciting to watch Michigan football!

Blue Ninja

October 10th, 2010 at 1:52 PM ^

We're still in the process of rebuilding. The offense is clicking well but not at 100% just yet, I don't expect that until next year. The defense may take 2-3 years before its where it should be but could be serviceable even by next year as our DB's gain valuable experience this year.

 

As for the MSU game, a few completions made and this game is changed. But due to players still being fairly green that these things are going to happen. They will still probably win 7+ games and Denard will still be in the Heisman hunt, but they have to put this game behind them and continue concentrating on one game at a time. Lets see how they do against Iowa.

tenerson

October 10th, 2010 at 1:53 PM ^

Sure, we should only lose 2 guys, but Ezeh is terrible and if no one can out play him now, I don't have a lot of hope for next year unless a freshman can come in and be immediately competant which doesn't often happen. What if Martin decides to leave? That is very possible. I don't think it's a stretch to say the secondary will be better, but by how much? Again, no one can outplay Rogers right now. I know they are all freshman but that should be a spot where you can be somewhat effective as a freshman. I am not typically a sky is falling type of person, but I am a realist. I don't think the defense will be very good next year. They won't be this bad, but they won't be able to go out and win us games. The offense will still need to do it. The good news is the offense only loses 2 guys. They should be better as well.

MichiganGoBlue8

October 10th, 2010 at 5:02 PM ^

I genuinely loved this interview. The reporter kept trying to test Denard with those questions. He kept on asking, in general, the same one about how the game affected him and his confidence. Denard I noticed was smiling at first. Then the reporter started trying to dig and his face just went straight serious. I felt like the reporter was starting to be a little submissive after that just with tone of voice. Yeah, I agree Denard looks fine and I'm glad we have a leader like that. Hopefully he rubs off on our defense because they need to keep confident more than anyone right now.

BlueinEL

October 10th, 2010 at 3:40 PM ^

Yes this defense is about what we thought before the UConn game. There's a lot of inexperience in the secondary. We all know about Obi (and opposing O coordinators do too). Those things are a given. But the thing that appalled me more than anything Saturday was that MSU came into our stadium and out hit us. We came out well in the first quarter on both lines, but from the 2nd quarter on, MSU's offensive line just pounded on us. That was flat embarrassing.   If your name isn't Mike Martin, chances are you were the nail and not the hammer. In Rich's third season, the defense as a whole has not improved at all.  Tackling is atrocious. Now, I know some of the youngsters will get better. But the sobering thing is that in Rich's 3rd season, the D still looks years away from even being just OK. Even if the coaches manage to bring in a bunch of ESPN 150 defenders in 2011, they'll still just be true freshman next year.

ST3

October 10th, 2010 at 3:54 PM ^

I called out Rogers yesterday mistakenly. I forgot he came out with cramps. The 2nd play after he came out, state hit the 41 yard pass for a TD on a double move. Does Rogers get beat on that play? Doubtful, given that he's usually 10 yards away from the WR. Anyway, that put state up by 14 in the 3rd and we went into catch up mode. Does Denard throw either of the second half INTs if we're only down 7? I suspect he was pressing, and as a lot of people have pointed out, it's just his 6th game starting. I think if RichRod was focused on JUST this game, he may have been better off giving Tate a series or two to change it up, but he's looking at the rest of this year and the next two, and Denard will be that much better off for having gone through this experience and being able to learn from it. 

If we get that fumbled snap, maybe momentum switches back to our side. Instead, Obi was a tad late and Cousins beat him to the football. Not the first time we've said that about Obi. However, I disagree with those who say give more time to the young kids on D. We've got to win games to keep the recruiting buzz building. I have to believe the coaches are trying to do the best they can to win today so the program can keep building and do great things in the future.

I think that's why RichRod punted when we were down 17 in the 4th. If we turn it over to state there, they probably punch it in and we lose by 24. That looks real bad in the Sunday papers. Bama lost by 14 yesterday.

jmblue

October 10th, 2010 at 5:11 PM ^

I think that's why RichRod punted when we were down 17 in the 4th. If we turn it over to state there, they probably punch it in and we lose by 24. That looks real bad in the Sunday papers.

That's a loser's mentality.  You can't quit while there's still time.  RR acknowledged after the game that it was a mistake.

Blue_Bull_Run

October 10th, 2010 at 6:25 PM ^

first of all, its not really comforting to know that Vince Young didn't beat OU until his senior year (I though VY didn't stick around for his senior year, anyways?). By analogy, that means we have two more losses coming to OSU. Just cuz VY did it doesn't make it acceptable.

Secondly,and more importantly, I dont think anyone is saying that Denard sucks or that he'll never amount to anything. The point, IMO, is simply that Tate (or Devin) should get a chance to rotate in when Denard is struggling.