Should the Big Ten Consider Removing Penn State From the Conference?

Submitted by bryemye on November 6th, 2011 at 1:35 PM

Pretty simple question. This is the most heinous case I have seen come out of college sports that involved the entire chain of command up to the president of the university. The university's reaction to this has been whatever the word for appalling but a thousand times more is. A thousand times appaling. Writing this I'm getting nauseous.

Point being: this does not represent the values of the Big Ten or any conference but especially the Big Ten. I don't see a gray area here but I'm happy to have someone investigate to see if there is one. If things are as bad as they seem, then I don't want to be associated with that place in any way shape or form. I think there should at least be an investigation with the threat of removal present.

Thoughts?

Comments

MGlobules

November 6th, 2011 at 4:44 PM ^

from the union. That would be absurd overkill, and I can't believe people here are entertaining the notion. 

The pres should resign after his knee-jerk defense of the officials, though. And by what rationale they have decided to pay for their legal defense, I would really like to know. 

victors2000

November 6th, 2011 at 4:45 PM ^

What happened at PSU is about indivduals, not the entire school; I don't see how one could place the entire student body, the entire faculty, EVERYONE, at fault for what Sandusky did. I'm confident it will be handled correctly; this is pretty disgusting stuff in any part of the country, I'm sure the authorities will want to get to the bottom of it, even if it does mean some folks in high places

HollywoodHokeHogan

November 6th, 2011 at 5:07 PM ^

are all "don't punish all those students for the actions of a few!"  But when OSU recruiting violations come up, everyone says "INSTITUTIONAL FAILURE!! THE WHOLE ADMINISTRATION KNEW!!"

 

Trivially, nearly every act or failure to act by a large institution is not the result of a concerted effort by every single individual involved with the institution.   It can't be the case that only unanimous action justifies punishing the institution.  This would mean institutions can practically never be punished.

 

Do I think they should be kicked out of the conference?  I dunno, it depends on how deep into the adminstration the cover-up went.  But it's not entirely crazy to think it's possible.  This idea that people spout about it being a few bad apples ignores the fact that these bad apples were the ones running the fucking university.  It's not like some of the students were rapists.  It's that (it appears so far) that the management was protecting a high-level employee who was a child rapist. 

LSAClassOf2000

November 6th, 2011 at 5:24 PM ^

.....at OSU, it's failure of a totally different species than this. Hate them though we do, you would hope that they - or anyone else really - would be responsible enough to report the sort of activity mentioned in Sandusky's indictment. The shenanigans of an athletic department in its struggle to cheat their way to the top of the conference in every sport short of table tennis (maybe even that one too) is not at all the same as what is being alleged at PSU. 

FrankMurphy

November 6th, 2011 at 5:42 PM ^

No one is suggesting that Ohio State should be kicked out of the Big Ten. People are suggesting that Gene Smith and possibly Gordon Gee should be kicked out of Ohio State.

Similarly, if any Penn State officials are found to have acted improperly, they should lose their jobs and the regents (or whatever PSU calls its board) should clean house. But kicking the entire university out of the Big Ten doesn't really serve any purpose. 

 

KSmooth

November 6th, 2011 at 5:49 PM ^

This situation's ugly, no doubt about that, but what exactly would be accomplished by throwing PSU out of the conference?  If the allegations pan out Paterno will have to step down, which would be pretty dramatic on it own, but that would probably be the end of it.

One thing though, PSU fans are going to be catching hell for years, maybe decades, over this one.  I can only imagine the abuse that's coming their way in East Lansing or Columbus.

The one roundabout effect from all this might be the end of the Leaders and Legends thing.  The whole point of the wonky divisions was to avoid the jumble of power teams you would have in an eastern division.  With Paterno leaving in a scandal like this, PSU might be about to go through a pretty lean stretch.

 

NOLA Wolverine

November 6th, 2011 at 6:02 PM ^

This is just beyond stupid. The legal system of the United States of America will handle the punishment of those who were apart of the illegal acts that took place. What in the world does stripping the right to compete and earn scholarships away from the students (prospective or admitted) of Penn State do to help anyone? Does it help the kids in anyway? No. Justice is not served by destroying the world of every Penn State athelete. Justice is served in the courts, and those responible will receive their punishment. You at like the point of student athletics is the beurocratic structure that has had a couple of members involved in this illegal incident, but it's not. Penn State athletics, while greatly influenced by these people in some aspects, is not about them at all. Justice will be served, and Penn State athletics will remain an integral part of the Big Ten Conference going forward. 

hennesbe

November 6th, 2011 at 6:25 PM ^

I'd say so if their President is still standing 100% behind the AD and finance officer being indicted for covering it up.  He is as bad as Geek down in colonumbus.

buddhafrog

November 6th, 2011 at 7:00 PM ^

Everyone knows the story by now... but unless you read the actual grand jury report, you don't understand the extent of what allegedly happened.  And it is very credible.  The extent is beyond shocking - and PSU continued to look the other way as Sandusky was still associated (even though retired) with the program.  As far as I can tell, the most punishment that was handed to him is that they told him that he could not bring children to the PSU facilities (though they also agreed that this was unenforcable).  Really?

That was the PSU response, from top to bottom.  There were many adults who saw suspicious happenings before and after the most clear case (GA saw Sandusky raping a 10 y/o kid in the PSU showers.  Still, Sandusky remained a part of the PSU family. 

They are all fucking guilty and should pay the penalty.  If it were their grandchildren, what punishment would they expect for a person in their position who essentially turned a blind eye?  They should receive that punishment.  Joe Pa included you old bastard.  Shame on you.  Your legacy will be tarnished forever.

As for the University and the original post - no.  I don't know if I see the connection to these individuals and to the entire university.  Legally, I bet PSU will be paying unimaginable amounts as lawsuits are brought by the children and their familes.  Their school and especially football team will see tangible effects.  They will be punished, but don't see how they should be kicked out of the Big 10.

jblaze

November 6th, 2011 at 8:44 PM ^

JoePa & AD knew and said nothing, then yes, kick them out. Oversigning, poor academics, not enough research... are all said to prevent schools from joining the B1G, but this is more disgusting than any of that.

Ovr

November 6th, 2011 at 9:30 PM ^

What seems noteworthy is that in JoePa's statement, he emphasizes the fact Sandusky was no longer on the coaching staff, and that by implication justifies his tepid response to such revolting news.  Interesting also that Schultz's attorney is litigating the charge of failure to report in the media, and that he already has a legal defense to it.  The speed with which such a point was made begs the question whether this was something already considered by Schultz, Curley, and JoePa back at the time; ie, we owe no legal duty, this victim is not our student; therefore, the legal obligation doesn't apply to us.  Their parsing of Sandusky's relationship to the team and the victim's relationship to the university is troubling, as though they thought someday they'd be here.  What about all those victims in the meantime?

J.Swift

November 6th, 2011 at 10:45 PM ^

Before MGoBlog becomes grand jury, judge, prosecuting attorney, and criminal jury, pause and recall the  rather famous case involving one of Duke's men's sports in which the prosecutor decided the case (in his own mind) before considering all the evidence. 

Rushing to judgment does not usually end well.

HHW

November 7th, 2011 at 11:13 AM ^

Read the F'in report.  Once you finish wiping the vomit off your keyboard, come back and discuss.

Nobody should even be commenting unless they have read the full indictment.  It is disturbing.  To even assume there are only 8 victims is ludicrous.  He opened up his charity for underprivileged boys in 1977.  Any bets that the 1990s wasn't the first time?

He's a sick fuck and how the athletic administration slept soundly knowing he was out there preying on the very boys his charity was formed to help is un-conscionable.

buddhafrog

November 7th, 2011 at 12:45 AM ^

All of these Sandusky threads I think are written knowing that all the proof is not laid out yet and that all comments are made with "assuming he's guilty."

With that said, if you read teh grand jury report, it is so damning.  I'd bet everything I own that he is guilty.  Eight kids.  Graduate Assistant witness who also told his dad about it that night.  Janitor witness who also told his all his co-workers and boss about it that night (they all worried he would have a heart attack he was that upset).  And more.

The asshole is guilty and PSU's repuation will be rightfully dragged throught he mud.

I think less evidence is available about the guilt of others, but for me, I'm on the side of they are all guilty as fuck until I hear otherwise.

Ann Arbor Badger

November 11th, 2011 at 9:30 AM ^

For the following reasons, PSU's dismissal from the Big Ten is definitely on the table:

1) PSU's image is going to harm the Big Ten's brand for years.  The Big Ten does NOT need to be associated with the mess going on in Happy Valley.

2) PSU's football program is going to be decimated by the ongoing penalties, NCAA sanctions, etc.  Hell, Penn State may even be obliged to suspend their football program indefinitely.

3) The last thing the Big Ten needs is another weak football program (we already have several of them), and it is going to take PSU a decade to get back on the map, if ever.

4) The Big Ten HAS to take some sort of action here.  This goes beyond memorabilia and tattoos.  This Big Ten Conference needs to (and I believe they will) send a message about the types of schools that are good enough to be a member of this great institution.  Unlike the SEC, the Big Ten's brand is largely based on academic reputation...this compels the Conference to do something serious about the PSU situation.