Should the Big Ten Consider Removing Penn State From the Conference?

Submitted by bryemye on November 6th, 2011 at 1:35 PM

Pretty simple question. This is the most heinous case I have seen come out of college sports that involved the entire chain of command up to the president of the university. The university's reaction to this has been whatever the word for appalling but a thousand times more is. A thousand times appaling. Writing this I'm getting nauseous.

Point being: this does not represent the values of the Big Ten or any conference but especially the Big Ten. I don't see a gray area here but I'm happy to have someone investigate to see if there is one. If things are as bad as they seem, then I don't want to be associated with that place in any way shape or form. I think there should at least be an investigation with the threat of removal present.

Thoughts?

Comments

dmcb32

November 6th, 2011 at 2:06 PM ^

This is the worst thing I have ever read/heard about in sports!  However, you do not remove one of the most historical college football programs in the country!  I just hope JoPa is not implicated!  B1G needs the Lions!  That is all!

Jasper

November 6th, 2011 at 2:14 PM ^

To the OP: The Penn State situation might be the most horrible thing I've ever heard about in sports. That's not the issue here.

This is:

"Point being: this does not represent the values of the Big Ten or any conference but especially the Big Ten."

Especially the Big Ten? Could you please elaborate?

bryemye

November 6th, 2011 at 2:19 PM ^

Obviously no conference anywhere supports child molestation. Obviously. However, there are ways to handle these kinds of situations. I think the schools in the Big Ten hold themselves to a higher standard in handling things like this compared to schools in other conferences. The conference has a bit more of a "high and mighty" ethos than other conferences. You can't have that when you have high ranking members of a university covering up a case like this.

The comments coming from their university president have been pretty disappointing in this regard.

Jasper

November 6th, 2011 at 3:06 PM ^

You wrote: "I think the schools in the Big Ten hold themselves to a higher standard in handling things like this compared to schools in other conferences."

Oversigning? Sure -- I'd expect the Big Ten to take higher ground than the SEC. But, I'd be surprised to see any signficant differences between the conferences on *this* issue.

bryemye

November 6th, 2011 at 2:16 PM ^

If not this, then what? What would be cause for removing a university from the conference?

Remember this story goes up to the president of the university. It's not like this is just on Jerry Sandusky.

LSAClassOf2000

November 6th, 2011 at 2:22 PM ^

It's one guy who did something pretty sickening, and then you have a few of his superiors making judgments based on Sandusky's value to the program, putting aside the gravity of his crimes. That's not the program's fault. That's not the school's fault. It sits squarely at the feet of the the criminal and those who failed to come forward about his activity. 

As for removing the school from the conference, I am pretty sure it would have to go up for a vote anyway, and I don't see where the school or athletic dpartment AS A WHOLE has done something worthy of their reprimand or outright removal. 

LIhockey24

November 6th, 2011 at 2:28 PM ^

This whole incident does not represent the 40,000+ kids and the kids actually on the football team (as far as we know) proud to see their team play in the B1G but rather a few individuals...the answer is no.Dont punish an entire school and community for the actions of a few.

LIhockey24

November 6th, 2011 at 2:29 PM ^

This whole incident does not represent the 40,000+ kids and the kids actually on the football team (as far as we know) proud to see their team play in the B1G but rather a few individuals...the answer is no.Dont punish an entire school and community for the actions of a few.

Adrian

November 6th, 2011 at 2:32 PM ^

Sorry dumb question but what happened? I have been living under a rock this semester. Besides saturday and sunday football i dont know anything. Can someone explain

enlightenedbum

November 6th, 2011 at 2:54 PM ^

Jerry Sandusky (PSU defensive coordinator/heir apparent until 1999) is accused of sexually assaulting 8 boys (8-14 years old).  A GA walked in on anal sex in the PSU showers between Sandusky and one of the boys in 2002, informed Paterno, who informed the AD/Chief of Campus Police, who steadfastly ignored it.  Grand Jury indicted Sandusky on 40 counts of various felonies on Saturday, the AD and Chief of Campus Police with one count each of perjury and failure to report abuse of a minor.  Paterno faces no charges, and there are no planned charges coming at Paterno.  He will testify to know what he knew from the GA and towards the perjury charges (which are essentially Paterno and the GA's testimony being deemed far more credible than the AD/CoCP by the Grand Jury).

denardogasm

November 6th, 2011 at 3:42 PM ^

I just don't get why they would even cover that up... There are always other D Coordinators, and it's not like he was even the best in the biz and winning them national championships (which would be the only bad/disgusting reason I can think of to keep him, since there are no good reasons to condone this).  Why not just turn him in?

pasadenablue

November 6th, 2011 at 2:54 PM ^

Jerry Sandusky, Penn State's old DC, was charged with sex abuse violations.  The PSU AD was charged with perjury and attempting to cover up the scandal.  The chief of campus police was also charged with similar things.

 

Pretty fucked up.

 

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news;_ylt=Atu6jAZYX.ipP4HRo8h4szA5nYcB?slug=dw-wetzel_penn_state_child_sex_case_110511

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-pennstateex-coach-allegations

evenyoubrutus

November 6th, 2011 at 3:06 PM ^

Don't remove them from the conference, that isn't enough. They should completely strip Penn State of their accredited status and eliminate all their state funding, so they are no longer an academic institution.

MGoblu8

November 6th, 2011 at 3:16 PM ^

Maybe I misunderstood, but according to what I heard, Paterno reported hearing about this as soon as he heard about it. The other douchebags were trying to cover it up. Perhaps I'm wrong.

ijohnb

November 6th, 2011 at 4:47 PM ^

responsibility in that situation was to report the violations to any law enforcement authority that would listen, and if one would not listen then he needed to go to the next one.  That is not something that you leave to bureacratical "reporting" obligations and say I have done my part.  If what is alleged is true, this goes to Paterno's charactor, and that of anybody else that had reason to believe abuse was occurring that did not act with absolute and unwaivering diligence to inform law enforcement authorities, directly not, not through various channels, of the information that they had.

FrankMurphy

November 6th, 2011 at 6:28 PM ^

It's unclear exactly what information Paterno received, and JoePa himself isn't accused of any criminal wrongdoing, but I think he has a higher moral duty than simply reporting the matter to the AD and forgetting about it. If he was aware of the allegations that Sandusky was raping or molesting children, then he should have at least followed up with the AD on why no investigation was being conducted, confronted Sandusky, or done something more to address the situation himself. "I told my boss, let him deal with it" doesn't seem like the most appropriate response when an an emeritus employee who was once under your direct supervision is accused of serious sex crimes. 

swan flu

November 6th, 2011 at 3:23 PM ^

The people involved should be sent to Bolivia (literally?) but you can't punish the students or the program for something they took no part in, or had no knowledge of until recently.

MGoblu8

November 6th, 2011 at 3:25 PM ^

Just read the other thread about the Washington Post article. Reading this stuff makes me angry. Angrier than I should be after reading something that doesn't involve me. I do, however, have a two year old son. I can't even write what I'm thinking, let alone say it aloud. God bless the kids involved and have god have mercy on these dirtbags. Wherever they go until then, I'm sure mercy won't be very plentiful.

JCV16

November 6th, 2011 at 3:27 PM ^

Everyone's snarky "no" comments are really shocking to me.  This is an athletic program that may have condoned and facilitated the rape of children.  If that's true (and it of course must be determined before any action is taken), they should be booted from the conference.   If this doesn't justify expulsion, what would???

 

LSAClassOf2000

November 6th, 2011 at 3:31 PM ^

Again, why do a  few people want to punish the whole program, department, and really, the whole university (which receives some benefits from being part of the many B1G Ten academic alliances) for the actions of a handful of individuals, regardless  of how disgusting we find those actions? Do you really condone destroying the village to save it, as it were?

LSAClassOf2000

November 6th, 2011 at 3:47 PM ^

The crimes committed by Jerry Sandusky and others are prosecutable under criminal law, which (and I am not the expert, but I will chance that I am  right here) is not necessarily a violation of NCAA bylaws. Those bylaws are designed to deal with the conduct of the people employed in the athletic department and the students they support as their conduct pertains to athletics, not general public conduct, at least not as specifically. Now, if their general behavior leads to criminal prosecution (as it surely will here), then the school - if they are responsible - shall terminate those people forthwith (obviously  they did not here, which is why  you now have the perjury charges up and down the department), ending their relationship with the department and, by extension, the NCAA. 

Again, what did the students and players do to warrant the removal of the school from the conference?

Now, for the B1G, it is not just an athletic conference, not anymore; it's sort of a conglomerate that also has a massive sports facility, if you will - many universities within the conference have rather lucrative alliances for research in various fields. 

JCV16

November 6th, 2011 at 3:48 PM ^

now you have completely lost me.  First you were saying the institution should not suffer if its leadership condoned child rape.  Now you are saying it should not suffer because child rape is a crime and because there is some ncaa rule that might apply?

In my view, the answer is much simpler: if the the leadership of the institution facilitated child rape, the institution should be booted from the conference.  Perhaps they should have a chance to re-join in the future if they demonstrate that there are procedures or policies in place to guarantee nothing like this every happens again. 

 

 

 

LSAClassOf2000

November 6th, 2011 at 3:57 PM ^

.....Pennsylvania State University does not deserve to be removed from the Big Ten because a of the criminal activities of a few employees. I am pretty sure that the bulk of the PSU community is just as disgusted - if not moreso because it their school - than we are. I would even imagine that even as management worked to hide it, there is no way  that this was a machination of the athletic department of a size that only Oliver Stone could direct. In other words, select individuals were involved, so punish those people,  not the students and players.

No, I didn't say an NCAA rule might apply. I thought I was speaking plainly when I said (basically) that the NCAA doesn't even factor in but on a secondary level because this is a criminal investigation under the jurisdiction of the state of Pennsylvania. 

I ask again - why should the entire school suffer because of the actions of a few? That makes no sense and the punishment would lack any sort of scale. 

JCV16

November 6th, 2011 at 3:59 PM ^

ok, so can you explain to me in what situation you would ever allow any institution to be penalized for anything?  Any institutional penalty is the result of "the actions of a few," including penalties assessed for recruiting violations, etc...

What allegedly happened here, however, is not free meals, or free tats, or free cars...  it is the freaking rape of children.  

If it happened, the university does not deserve to be associated with the big ten conference, at least until they clean up their act.  if that makes penn state alums sad, i don't really care, because their leadership allegedly facilitated child rape.  

LSAClassOf2000

November 6th, 2011 at 4:10 PM ^

....is that because you have a child sex scandal and a cover-up associated with it, not only will  you see soon-to-be ex-employees at  PSU (and obviously they should be),  you'll see some inmates in  state prison (as they should be), and I don't doubt the NCAA and the B1G will want to give the  program a once-over too. I totally see that happening. I even bet there will  be some rather harsh words  from both groups because even it is the actions of a few, it does make the athletic department at PSU look "shady", to put it mildly, even if by and large it is not. 

The basic point is that it seems to me like this should be handled as the criminal investigation that it is, separate and apart from the day-to-day operations of PSU Athletics, even though this was - quite sadly - a sidebar to the operations of PSU athletics for quite some time. 

Does it amount to a hanging offense for the school as a whole?  I still say "no". 

denardogasm

November 6th, 2011 at 3:28 PM ^

The only penalty the NCAA or Big10 should impose is banning the people involved.  To take away their membership only hurts the students and athletes, and they're the ones that were hurt by the crime to begin with.

bluebyyou

November 6th, 2011 at 3:29 PM ^

As heinous as this is, and everyone incidentally or directly involved should get the max. remember there are close to 50,000 kids at PSU who are there to get an education and are probably equally sickened by this news.  I wouldn't penaiize them because of a few bad apples.

Wolvie3758

November 6th, 2011 at 4:00 PM ^

and I did.....its CLEAR there was a systematic and continual coverup at Penn St that included

Joe Paterno, the AD, and various school officials over a LONG period of time.. This is

about as SERIOUS as it gets and Once again a example of hypocricy of those claiming to

be pure and ethical and shining examples, when all the while doing the EXACT OPPOSITE...

First Jim Tressel and Now Joe Paterno and Penn State...WOW...Shame on Penn ST