Shane Morris puts The Game in perspective

Submitted by orobs on November 25th, 2012 at 6:10 PM

Comments

Urban Warfare

November 25th, 2012 at 9:38 PM ^

OSU initially reported Tressel's violation in January and invited NCAA investigators to interview Tressel and others who may have been involved.  NCAA investigators were on campus from February through May or June.   OSU cooperated fully. 

As for the QA staffers, they "regularly monitored and conducted skill-development activities," and coached players on technique.  That's more than stretching.  Coaches were also in attendance at 7-on-7 drills in the offseason.   That's more than stretching.  They were major violations. 

clarkiefromcanada

November 25th, 2012 at 9:56 PM ^

I understand you need to lie to yourself to validate the last ten years of your program's outright cheating under Tressel. You know you've been dirty. But just accept that was what happened and move on. This Ohio fan tendency toward revisionism is maddening and, ultimately, delusional.

First, Tressel knew of the issues at play re: tatgate, cars, Pryor, Herron etc. in April 2010. Allegations related to TPeezy surfaced in public in December of 2010 and, if you recall, Gene Smith conducted a forthright internal investigation (he evidently shuffled some paper and called your crack compliance staff) before telling the B1G, BCS and NCAA that all was fine. Of course, he had obfuscated in order to enable player to compete against Arkansas. 

OSU did minimize and limit reporting in January and this led to the ridiculous presser with E. Gordon Gee, Smith and Tressel with the "fire me" quote. 

NCAA investigators were on campus at Ohio because novel allegations kept coming up with new evidence (and as such TPeezy took the supplemental route so he could avoid testifying to the NCAA) and Tressel got the opportunity to work for the Indianapolis Colts.

I don't mind the myopic idiocy of Ohio fans. It is who you are. However, your continuous lying to yourselves about what happened (as if that will make it go away) is pointless.

Engage in revisionism all you want but you can't deny the truth.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7372757/ohio-state-bucke…

 

Doc Brown

November 25th, 2012 at 10:05 PM ^

Read it again, moron. I know reading is a difficult skill to learn due to the shitty state of public education in Ohio. Even though teachers are getting dragged across hot coals in Michigan, there is a reason I am avoiding teaching in Toledo/NC Ohio. 

http://www.freep.com/article/20100525/SPORTS06/100525008/Michigan-football-admits-major-NCAA-violations-cuts-practice-time-disciplines-7-people

Among other violations, U-M acknowledged that quality-control staffers improperly conducted voluntary summer workouts and were present “on occasion” for voluntary seven-on-seven scrimmages during the summer.

Thanks for ignoring the main point that each of these violations were secondary in nature, but were bumped up to major due to AD probation that was ending. 

Urban Warfare

November 25th, 2012 at 10:14 PM ^

Oh, sorry.  In Ohio, we learn to use primary sources rather than media summaries.  I was going from the NCAA Committee on Infractions report, which stated that: 

"[T]he five quality control staff members monitored and conducted skill-development activities with student-athletes, offered advice on technique to student-athletes during practices and critiqued film with student-athletes...For example, three quarterbacks stated that the quality control staffer who worked with them conducted and led drills designed to improve their drop backs, play fakes and roll outs, among other skills. The quality control staff member called out plays, and the quarterbacks were required to perform the footwork associated with the play. The staff member corrected the quarterbacks if mistakes were made in techniques pertaining to dropping back, handoffs and footwork...From January 2008 through September 2009, the quality control staff members watched game and/or practice film with football student-athletes and provided advice and/or corrections to the football student-athletes pertaining to technique and plays. This activity only occurred occasionally but, as it is defined as a coaching function, it can only be performed by the designated members of the coaching staff."

 

You can find it at http://www.annarbor.com/2010/11/04/NCAA-Michigan-report.pdf

clarkiefromcanada

November 25th, 2012 at 10:32 PM ^

Hey, are you Gene Smith?

Is that what its like for the NCAA dealing with you guys?

I provided the ESPN link for your benefit; principally the simplicity of it.

The timeline on the OSU information on Tressel is all over the internet and in the decision published by the NCAA. You don't speak of this issue but, rather, revert back to discussion of Michigan practicegate as if the two things are the same. We both know they are not.

You keep up the revisionism and obfuscation Gene.

buckeyejonross

November 26th, 2012 at 2:13 AM ^

That's fine, and if that day comes I'll certainly be far from shocked. Pryor doesn't strike me as a guy that would turn down certain benefits. But as it stands, the NCAA, after an investigation, found that Pryor and co. legitimately acquired their cars. Pretending that OSU bought every five-star that walked through those doors a new car is inaccurate.

buckeyejonross

November 26th, 2012 at 9:43 AM ^

Really? Your comeback to an actual news source featuring actual news is a picture of Terrell Pryor next to a Corvette during his prom!? Haha seriously?! I drove an MG to prom. Do you know how easy it is to ask a parent's friend who has a cool car to borrow it for prom? Literally 50% of kids ever do that? Have you anything else? Like him driving that car on campus? Or not in a tux? Or ever again? Or no? I'm embarrassed for you.

buckeyejonross

November 26th, 2012 at 1:44 PM ^

Probably from a job, or their parents. Like how everyone gets money to pay for a car. It's not like they're driving Rolls Royce's. They're driving $15,000 Dodges, on the extreme high end. Most families can afford to lease/buy that. I see nothing that jumps off the page as egregious.

clarkiefromcanada

November 26th, 2012 at 8:00 PM ^

You are a homer...blinded by scarlet and grey...devoid of common sense.

I imagine they could easily afford $15000 Dodge cars if they had jobs with Bobby DiGeronimo...

You remember him, right?

"I see nothing that jumps off the page as egregious".

Except the part where players got suspended and Bobby D. had to disassociate with the program.

Doc Brown

November 26th, 2012 at 6:54 AM ^

That's not what SI and yahoo discovered. Let's not pretend for a second that NCAA president Mark Emmert is good friends with President Gorden Gee from their undergraduate education. Or that the NCAA does not have subpoena power and could not call upon Pryor and Troy Smith. Too bad Pryor's money man kicked the bucket before he could talk or the Ohio State Supreme Court stonewalling ESPN's FOIA for Pryor's emails. 

profitgoblue

November 26th, 2012 at 10:22 AM ^

You're fighting a losing battle, if only because you are totally outnumbered and dealing with people that are still upset about their favorite team losing a game that probably should have been won.

That said, do you really think the NCAA would have subpoenaed Pryor???  The NCAA has proven itself to be impotent and OSU quickly moved to sanction itself to avoid all of that.  Just because more didn't come out in the investigation doesn't mean that more didn't actually occur.  The same can be said for other schools too (Michigan?) but you're being a bit naiive when you state that Pryor was the only culprit in Tressel's downfall, in my opinion.

 

buckeyejonross

November 26th, 2012 at 11:04 AM ^

I'm not disagreeing with that. And it's very possible stuff occurred outside of the investigation. It's also possible stuff didn't. That's the point a significant portion of Michigan fans refuse to admit. The NCAA conducted an investigation, they found X happened, only biased people would conclude the investigation was wrong and that Y had to happen too and the investigation just missed it. Ask yourself, if this happened at UTEP, would everyone assume that the NCAA's findings were false? No, probably not. And for the record, the only person responsible for JT's downfall is JT. He had the chance to not lie. He didn't. He is the reason he got fired. Not TP, not Boom, not Eddie Rife.

Doc Brown

November 27th, 2012 at 8:17 AM ^

Tell me where I was wrong? The NCAA is a non-profit organization (LOL at that). Everyone knows the Tatted 5 ran to the NFL to avoid talking to the NCAA. While Tressell's firing got turned into a "retirement" by Gordon Gee to shut him up. You are lucky Sarniak kicked the bucket as the IRS was closing in on him for tax evasion. 

03 Blue 07

November 26th, 2012 at 1:28 AM ^

Sorry to jump in here, but your characterization of what, precisely, the NCAA found is actually factually incorrect. I assume you didn't read the entire document dump, but I (and others) around here did. And the statements you just made in this thread, in this post, are factually incorrect, per the NCAA. i realize it's a ton of pages, and (insert joke about literacy level...here), but if you want to make such specific points, you better be right about them. And you, simply, are not. Though the link starts with "vpcomm.umich.edu," this link takes you to the PDF of the NCAA's official findings. If you want to equate what we did to what you did, so be it, but please, try to be informed first. And comparing the two is asinine, btw. And doesn't even touch on the multiple "test drives" that TP took. But that was on the up and up, og course, because he clammed up and the NCAA couldn't get to him. Face it: If there had never been an organization involved with actual teeth (cough cough federal agents Ted Sarniak cough cough) none of your infractions, and the fact that your coach lied about them to NCAA investigators on multiple occasions, would never have come to light. The converse is how we handled the situation: by not stonewalling when a completely b.s article claiming that we-- no joke- were practicing like 20 MORE hours per week in season than allowed. Of course, every single specific allegation in that article was found to be factually incorrect by the NCAA. Just felt the need to point that out. We opened up our entire program (and actually cooperated, unlike feigned cooperation- yes, there's a difference), and the result was what's contained in the link. You halfway opened your program, only after lying about it, and it was discovered that your players were getting impermissible financial benefits. You think stretching and Grad Assistants seeing who attends class and 7 on 7 are the same as paying players?  I pity you.

http://vpcomm.umich.edu/pa/key/documents/MichiganPublicInfractionsRepor…

 

Urban Warfare

November 26th, 2012 at 2:15 PM ^

That's the same report I was quoting from.  For example: 

"Because the five quality control staff members monitored and conducted skill-development activities with student-athletes, offered advice on technique to student-athletes during practices and critiqued film with student-athletes, they became countable coaches."  Id. at 1.

"[S]tudent-athletes were separated by position and the quality control personnel conducted position-specific drills with their respective groups. Drills varied according to the positions played by the student-athletes in each group but included work on skills such as blocking, back pedaling, handoffs and route running. With a goal of improving technique and developing fundamental football-related skills, the members of the quality control staff instructed the student-athletes on how to perform the drills and corrected the student- athletes if they saw mistakes being made.

For example, three quarterbacks stated that the quality control staffer who worked with them conducted and led drills designed to improve their drop backs, play fakes and roll outs, among other skills. The quality control staff member called out plays, and the quarterbacks were required to perform the footwork associated with the play. The staff member corrected the quarterbacks if mistakes were made in techniques pertaining to dropping back, handoffs and footwork."  Id. at 3.

"From January 2008 through September 2009, the quality control staff members watched game and/or practice film with football student-athletes and provided advice and/or corrections to the football student-athletes pertaining to technique and plays."  Id. at 4. 

 

And bonus: 

"Further, certain skill-development activities performed in winter and voluntary summer workouts became impermissible because they were not limited to weight training, conditioning and film review, and at times daily and weekly hour limitations for countable athletically related activities were violated."  Id. at 1. 

 

If you consider out-of-season practices and having QA staff act like five extra position coaches who conduct drills and review film with players to be less of an issue than players selling their own stuff, more power to you. 

MetricSU

November 25th, 2012 at 11:59 PM ^

The "trainers" were actually quality control coaches, and they oversaw entire workouts as well as seven-on-seven drills. The claim that it was extra stretching time is what deluded U-M fans tell themselves. You were given real sanctions for a reason.

Here is how U-M responded, in part: the violations “occurred for an extended period due to inattention by the football staff."

U-M admitted to essentially all of the violations, except the one about RR failing to provide an atmosphere of compliance.

This is much dirtier than the OSU scandal. RR was clearly trying to gain a competitive edge on the field. If Tressel hadn't lied, it would not even be close.

Jeff09

November 25th, 2012 at 11:07 PM ^

The point is, our violations were nowhere near the magnitude of yours, ours were ultimately a nuisance for the program but a non-event long term.  Yours led to multiple years of wins being vacated, player suspensions for a large portion of the season, a bowl ban, and a multi-year show-cause penalty for your beloved coach.  The question of whether our violations were 'a bit more than stretching' ignores the point that both of our schools were investigated, and Michigan came up relatively clean while Ohio came up extremely dirty.  Your school is nothing like ours, so please stop trying to lump us in with you.

buckeyejonross

November 26th, 2012 at 8:01 AM ^

Anyone can be a booster. Me and you too! That doesn't mean you're affiliated with the program. And sorry, I'm going to go by with what the NCAA found, not some hack at SI who had his story largely ripped by everyone and featured several inaccuracies (hello, current Buckeyes named in the article showing proof of trinket ownership. Where were you on that one Dohrman?) I mean jeeze, surprised you didn't bring up the raffles too!

Doc Brown

November 27th, 2012 at 8:21 AM ^

Still a booster and the benefits he provided aka weed, cash, and cars constitute an illegal benefit. Thus negating their amatuer status in the eyes of the NCAA. Proof of memembership means jack, when it comes to the means they aquired the automobiles. I am sure joe public can go to Columbus Ford and "borrow"  a car for months at a time with no down payment. 

KennyGfanLMAO

November 25th, 2012 at 7:22 PM ^

I usually don't like it because it reminds me of elementary school. You know, when you beat some kid in basketball and he says "oh yea, well you still can't divide!!" It's usually an attempt to take attention of the fact that you are really upset about the recent loss. In this case I didn't have a problem with it because it was clever. I try to stay away from the "HA HA NA NA NA NA BOO BOO" COMMENTS.

 

 

Edit: Forgot to take off caps lock