Shane Morris and his Redshirt

Submitted by ChalmersE on September 23rd, 2013 at 1:51 PM

So we're through four games and Morris had a few snaps against Central.  If he were not to play again this year, would he still be eligible to get a redshirt?  If so, should consideration be given to not using him unless Gardner is hurt (for more than a play or two)?  The last two games make it very likely that Gardner will be back next year so getting Morris ready for next year is less of an issue.

Comments

gopherfan

September 24th, 2013 at 1:35 PM ^

Every part of your post is wrong.

I have a posting history that goes beyond this discussion. It was only like 11 posts I think, but I'm almost certain that those had nothing to do with bitching about Michigan people.

Everyone who has read this thread knows what school I root for. The poster I was responding to decided to take more shots at Minnesota, as opposed to actually posting anything related to discussing the discription Akron and UConn as inferior relative to Michigan, so I responded. I suppose it is a tactic similar to what you are using in your response by pointing out that Minnesota hasn't done anything for 50 years. I freely acknowledged my irritation of seeing Minnesota regularly put down here, but I would say I have based 90% of my argument on things having nothing to do with Minnesota. The only time it comes is when people decide to use that as their counter to what I'm saying, as opposed to making their argument with numbers that a couple posters have said are out there to prove this superiority. And this has happened to me on campus too. I asked why students would rush the field after beating a bad Ohio State team, pointing out that they are Michigan, a team that wins national championships and should be in the top 10 every year. I was told in response, we beat you 55-0. It's aggravating to say the least.

I don't know how your paragraph concludes with you not believing I read this blog daily, though I get where you think I don't root for Michigan. I'm not sure how to prove otherwise, and I definitely shouldn't care enough. Unfortunately, I do care a bit. I can tell you that I started checking this site occasionally when TomVH was giving recruiting information. I was on this site a year and a half ago in February when there was a day full of commitments. It definitely made me jealous as a Gopher fan. I know that this site has crashed a few different times when a big time recruit is expected to commit. I saw Brian say he was done writing about the hockey team last year. I know that a lot of people on this board did not like Three and Out, and I think there was a recruting person named aquaman at some point, but that one might be completely made up. Not sure if that gives me the e-cred for you to believe I read this blog, but I do. 

Michigan really is my second favorite team, but I do view things differently than posters on this board. I see the way Gopher fans talk about the Gophers and their opponents, and I see the way this board talks about Michigan and their opponents. There is a huge difference, and for the most part, Michigan has earned that. But sometimes, I just think reality becomes a little skewed, depending on which set of glasses you are looking through. As a Minnesota fan, I don't see Michigan as being a great team this year if Gardner keeps turning it over and if the run game can't be a little more productive. I saw two teams that are awful stay right with Michigan, and I chose to call into question posters who wanted to talk about Michigan's superiority over those teams. That's all, it really has nothing to do with whether I cheer for Michigan.

 

InterM

September 24th, 2013 at 3:48 PM ^

Akron and UConn are (in your words) "awful," "terrible," and "two of the worst teams in college football," but all Michigan fans are arrogant and condescending because a guy in this thread expressed his frustration that Michigan wasn't able to get its younger players on the field in two games against "inferior opponents" that Michigan won in close fashion.

Are we done now?

gopherfan

September 24th, 2013 at 4:51 PM ^

Eh, not sure if it's done. If you look at the history of my posts, I pretty much keep arguing as long as someone wants to argue.

I did use the words "awful," "terrible," and "two of the worst teams in college football" to describe those teams, though I certainly wasn't the first in this thread to describe them in such a manner. There are definitely differing levels of quality throughout college football, I never argued that there wasn't. My argument was solely about what I consider to be an overly inflated perspective about Michigan's superiority over UConn and Akron in the 2013 football season, at least at this particular moment in time. 

And to be clear, Michigan fans aren't arrogant and condescending because someone expressed their frustration about not getting players on the field against inferior opponents, they are arrogant and condescending because they choose to describe these teams who almost beat them as inferior.

And to be clear, I don't actually think all, or even most, Michigan fans are that way, probably not even the poster I called out, but there are a healthy number of them who look down on other programs, even during seasons where it is not justified. As you may have gathered, I'm not a fan of that.

I would have to imagine that if at least some of the people I am arguing with went on a Texas message board, and heard them referring to other teams as inferior, some would find that laughable right now. I'm not saying Michigan is playing like Texas, but hopefully you get my comparison.

So to summarize my main point, I still don't think this team's current performance warrants viewing any team as inferior right now.

M-Wolverine

September 23rd, 2013 at 3:11 PM ^

He's seeing the future benefits of Glasgow, Miller, Kalis, Chesson, Funchess, Wormley, Ojemudia, Godin, Charlton, Pipkins, Hurst, Ross, Wilson, Taylor, and Countess playing. Because they're all young too, and those benefits might not be next year, but next month. Or at least in two months.

Baldbill

September 23rd, 2013 at 2:20 PM ^

I am with you on this one, Michigan seems unlikely to be up enough to allow the back up QB in for some experience the rest of the year. I also would not be upset if he started the next game. Devin seems like a great kid, but he carries that ball like a loaf of bread.

Brhino

September 23rd, 2013 at 2:28 PM ^

Michigan should be playing Shane Morris every chance they get.  In fact they have been, it's just that we haven't pulled away from anybody except CMU.  Shane Morris is one Devin Gardner twisted ankle or jammed thumb away from being our starting quarterback.  If that happens in the third quarter against Ohio State, do you want Shane Morris to have been held out in the hopes of preserving a red shirt, or do you want him to have gotten as many game snaps as possible prior to that point?

Mr. Yost

September 23rd, 2013 at 2:32 PM ^

...I hope everyone who was adamant about him not redshirtting to get experience owns up and shuts up next time this topic comes around.

He gained nothing as far as experience by playing CMU's backups. Not anything he wouldn't know as a RS Freshman next year. Not anything that was worth burning his redshirt.

If DG continues to stink it up or gets hurt...absolutely, put him in there. But is playing against CMU going to help him in one of those circumstances?

He should've redshirtted and practiced as the #2 QB. If he needed to play, go play. If not, now we have a luxury 5th year if needed. Remember the last time Michigan won a National Championship? It had a 5th year senior as the QB.

Mr. Yost

September 23rd, 2013 at 2:44 PM ^

Ghost of Yost is gone...and now I look like the angry one. When he was here...everyone thought I was quite pleasant. It's all relative.

That said, I stand by that post 100%. I bet you were one of the ones kicking and screaming for him to get "meaningful PT" vs. crap teams. So glad he's got that valuable game experience vs. CMU's backups in the 2nd half of a blowout...now he's ready to play MSU's defense.

The logic was always flawed. Especially when you take into account that every day in practice he goes up against MICHIGAN'S first team defense...which is pretty damn good despite that shitty situations they've been put in.

Brhino

September 23rd, 2013 at 2:56 PM ^

I really have to disagree with your notion that real-game experience in a blowout in meaningless.  Yes, it was Central Michigan.  Yes, it was in a blowout.  It's still miles different than any scenario Shane Morris had ever been in.  There aren't 100,000 screaming fans in practice.  Central Michigan's defense certainly isn't Michigan State's, but neither is it the high school defenses Shane Morris has gone against so far.  Going against a good defense in practice is NOT the same as actual game time, it never will be.

ChalmersE

September 23rd, 2013 at 3:14 PM ^

I venture to say there weren't a 100,000 people still in the stands when Morris came into the game. More importantly, it's one thing to play in front of 100,000 people when the game is on the line or in front of 90,000 folks in Lincoln.  It's another to play in front of any size crowd when the outcome of the plays is essentially irrelevant.

Mr. Yost

September 23rd, 2013 at 4:04 PM ^

Have you ever played football?

Not being a dick, just wondering.

I get what you're saying, but that's not experience. That's not a pressure situation.

Morris can "feel" what it's like playing in front of 100,000 by standing on the sidelines during the ND game. That is more of a feel than handing the ball off to Justice Hayes vs. CMU.

As for a "feel" for the game. Practice every day and scrimmages in the Big House are FAR more important in terms of QB experience for a game. You're playing against Michigan's #1 defense and they're trying to confuse and get after you.

So I would argue that you can get the "feel" of the atmosphere as much on the sidelines vs. ND as you can in garbage time on the field vs. CMU. That's why I asked if you've played football, or any sport for that matter. Garbage time is pretty pressure-less.

And he's not gaining anything on the field in terms of experience by running a base offense against low level MAC backups.

My point is simply that NEITHER (sitting vs. ND or playing vs. CMU) is going to get you prepared for a pressure situation against MSU or OSU's defense in a REAL game. So why waste the redshirt opportunity? THAT is what I am saying. If Shane has to come in vs. MSU...is anyone going to be saying "phew! good thing he got those 2 shit possessions vs. CMU to get him all that experience!!" No. Those snaps vs. CMU mean nothing vs. B1G competition.

Brhino

September 23rd, 2013 at 5:57 PM ^

 

Have you ever played football?

 

Yes.  Seven seasons, lastly as a backup fullback and special teams player at high school varsity level.  My opinions on the value of game experience, blowout or not, are based entirely on my own experience in similar situations.

DaJimmer

September 23rd, 2013 at 4:01 PM ^

..why did the Michigan football coaches decide to play Morris then? This is their job and while I'll agree that anyone can get split second (in game) decisions wrong, playing Morris against CMU wasn't a snap decision. I'll default to the coaches on this one. They know a lot more about footballing than any of us.  

Mr. Yost

September 23rd, 2013 at 4:12 PM ^

...but again, how does crap time vs. crap teams prepare one for REAL time vs. "real" teams. Especially at the QB position. It's not like RB, Green is going to continue to be right there in terms of PT. He has a legit shot to play in each and every game. Smith too.

Morris isn't playing again this year unless Gardner continues to suck, Gardner is injured or it's a blowout one way or the other.

(I put "real" in quotes because an MGoSmartAss will say something about "what's a fake team" or they'll say Akron and UConn sure looked real against us...which they did).

 

So what are you REALLY preparing for? If you were truly preparing Morris, why not give him a couple series vs. CMU, Akron and UConn (assuming the last 2 were handled the way they should have been) in the first half? THAT is preparation. At least you're playing against the 1's, it's not a blowout yet so you have the full offense to run, etc.

JamieH

September 24th, 2013 at 2:45 PM ^

because that would be a great way to get fired?  Hoke is trying to win football games.  This isn't the Shane Morris Football Academy.

You don't redshirt your backup quarterback.  You get him as many reps as you can, when the appropriate situations arise.  Those situations haven't arisen nearly as often as anyone would have liked so far this season. 

jmblue

September 24th, 2013 at 3:12 PM ^

...I hope everyone who was adamant about him not redshirtting to get experience owns up and shuts up next time this topic comes around.

This is silly. Shane Morris is our backup QB. You have to get your backup QB some game action to get his feet wet. It's unfortunate that he didn't get to play the last two weeks, but he'll get more chances. I'm glad he at least got to play against CMU. Odds are against Gardner playing every single non-garbage snap (he'll probably have to leave a game at some point, even if it's just for a play or two) and I don't want Morris having zero experience beforehand.

denardogasm

September 23rd, 2013 at 3:23 PM ^

Come on guys. Don't look at the stats like an ESPN analyst who doesn't even watch highlights. The interception to Chesson should have at least been an incompletion because Chessom had 5 or 6 inches on that DB as I recall. On the fumble he probably should have had better control but you also don't expect your fullback to punch it out from behind. The interception to Gallon was the right read a little off target and he got unlucky with the tip. Even with all the turnovers, the only thing I'm worried about right now as far as Devin is concerned is his confidence and mental state, which have clearly taken a hit. The offense as a whole is another story, because it blows, but Devin only deserves a minority of the blame. OL has been shit obviously, and I think that has led to Devin hurrying passes without waiting for options to open up, and the WR blocking has been subpar for the most part, contributing to an subpar run game. If the OL gets figured out, DG will be better. We've already seen it.

Wolfman

September 23rd, 2013 at 4:59 PM ^

There is no way we're going to stay with Devin if he doesn't somehow regain his confidence that was lost, not from the ND endzone int as one would normally conclude. He came back in that game and led us down the field for 7 if you will recall.  However, he hasn't shaken the Akron game and showed a complete disregard for ball security and it was obvious he wasn't merely hesitant to throw the ball vs. UCONN when shit went bad, he adapted a run first, way first before even looking to see if he had receivers because he was thinking only of the bad things that could happen.       ^I hope Brady pulls the magic he or whichever staff member did with Gibbons who suffered the same thing, having great practices but somehow missing anything he tried during a game.  Now he's hitting everything to the point, he's now our record holder for consecutive fgs made.  If Devin doesn't make this transformation make to his normal self, and he can't be simply a game manger because he's way too much of our offense, we will have to insert Shane.  I think the RS issue should be tabled until we see if Devin is able to recover. Some people, once they lose confidence in sports, are never able to regain it.

I dumped the Dope

September 23rd, 2013 at 9:07 PM ^

Couple things that popped into my head as I am working.

1. Based on the theory that younger QBs "follow in the footsteps" of older ones in the program, the classic upperclassmen set the example for the underclassmen...Gardner has pretty much apprenticed under Denard Robinson.  Incredible athlete...not the greatest pure passer.  I recognize that Gardner has done a lot of work with Whitfield, Manning, etc in the offseason, but despite his "graduated" student status would it be fair to say he's sort of a rookie in the dropback passer department?  The analogy I bring up is similar to getting a golf lesson.  Your muscle memory wants you to do one thing naturally, but your coaching tells you to adapt some other not-so-natural swing tactic in the name of being more consistent down the road.  The 5 game "relief" stint that Gardner did last season would be more of the "pure athleticism"/muscle memory end of that spectrum.

2.  There have been barbs against the play of Fitz in the Akron and ND games making cutbacks away from holes/lanes that eventually developed in front of him.  Sort of leading to the conventional wisdom that maybe he didn't trust his blockers with a high degree of certainty to open the called hole in the line.  Could it be that Gardner doesn't trust his pass protection much and is too quick to try to keep the play alive?

3.  I think the loopback/reverse field move that Gardner has employed to get away from pressure has to go.  It might work against a 300lb 0-tech guy but it seems to get blown up with astonishing regularity by faster DEs and i think a safety in the case of the ND game in the endzone.  Couch coaching says combining #2/#3 above to trust the merits (or lack thereof) of the pass blocking.  Just try to hold the ball or fall forward for a yard or two if the pocket collapses on both sides or there's unavoidable pressure.  The downside of loopback is somewhere between pick-6 and 3 & 25.  Recognizing the one highlight reel move against MN last season resulting in easy TD to Dileo...but thats like the Only One that sticks out in my mind as a good result.

Zone Left

September 23rd, 2013 at 7:26 PM ^

Um, at the rate we're going, Shane may see meaningful snaps this year.

I'm not sure what's going on with Gardner, but something is very wrong and the staff can only accept so many multiple turnover games before giving someone else a shot. Never thought I'd write that coming into this season...