Sexual Predator was just the Tipping Point for Anzalone
http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=384313
This article has some very, very interesting quotes from Dr. Anzalone (Alex's father). Seems like a decommitment was coming even before the events of today/yesterday and they are biting their tongues as to what really "wasn't right" at OSU.
"Something's just not right at Ohio State," Sal Anzalone said
As Bob Seger said: "Shit Ive known that for 10 years!"
In all seriousity though...it would be tough for any school to police everyone that the players come in contact with. If this was the only issue for the kid to decommitt...it seems pretty flimsy as it could happen at any school.
Perhaps there is more to this story, and maybe he just didnt feel comfortable at Ohio...which by itself would be no surprise at all.
It's disturbing that a registered sex offender has this kind of access to recruits during university visits, but I think people need to settle down a little about these recruits being in "danger" of a short fat little 31-year-old who looked at kiddy porn. I think it's more likely that Anzalone and others have been getting what they know to be improper benefits from toads like this and it's made them feel dirty.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Urban Meyer and his laisse-faire, flashy, Pete-Carroll-like approach to college coaching is a perfect fit for OSU. And, yes, shit like this story is a symptom of that approach. Kids who are simply looking for a ticket to the NFL will go to OSU under Meyer. Solid character kids who also happen to be excellent football players will come to Michigan under Hoke. There is a qualitative different betweent the schools and the football programs. Hoke's genuine, low-profile, team-first approach is perfect for Michigan.
Yes, good point. These aren't 9 year old boys. These are stellar athletes a year or two away from audulthood. They were not threatned by this pudgy middle aged man. They could beat the crap out of him if they felt they needed to. They did not de-commit soley because he was hanging around on their recruiting visit. There is something else going on here.
Athletes that were *allegedly* being given free booze. I am 270 and pretty athletic still. At one point a few years back, I overdrank and a 140 lb friend of mine tied me to a bar stool. I was unable to do much to defend myself.
I'm not claiming this as fact, but it is a possibility.
It sure is interesting though the erie similarity between Anzalone and Neal decommiting. It must be something big because I don't think a random sexual predator would cause someone to decommit. There must be something going in Columbus that those two recruits didn't find right.
I figure it'd be something these 17 year old recruits saw by the older players and/or the adults. Ive heard that some programs often set up free sex for the recruits...and the only way I can see them objecting and being turned off is if they set them up with "minors", say, 17 year old girls. A guy like Neal could be mature enough to see that the older players and/or adults aren't protecting the minors in this regard. This is totally unfounded but it would be consistent to what both Neal and Anzalone had said. Think about it...it had to be something that breached their morals... and if I recall, Meyer had two girls 'mistakenly' be in Denard's room on the Florida recruiting trip...now, say they were the same age as the recruit.....a mature recruit could see how wrong this is, as they are minors. This will eventually come out.... and if I could bet I'd say that this is what it is.
That can't be, can it?
Then in 2003, a campus newspaper's investigation into Arizona State's all-female recruiting group revealed that members routinely supplied underage recruits with wild parties, alcohol and occasionally sex while serving as hostesses.
The Sun Devils coach and athletic director at the time essentially admitted that they knew very little about how the group worked—and that was the way they liked it.
The team may have been responsible for the recruits' well-being while on campus, yet once they turned them over to these other students the kids were no longer in their jurisdiction. The hostesses were never given orders about what to do—remember the trust?—but they were also never told what not to do. One of the group members told the paper that the hostesses were never given guidance about what constituted a recruiting violation. After all, if they knew what the rules were, then the girls might have to follow them.
You can guess who the athletic director was at the time, or you can click this link and read the money quote.
You'd think this would be enough to keep the kids on campus for the duration of the visit instead of heading out to BW3 for some improper benefits from a kind of creepy dude, but I guess they want to make sure they see the full range of services the community has to offer.
I'm serious about this. The Ohio booster community was tired of Geiger trying (often in vain) to get things done the right way so they brought in somebody who was explicitly committed to lack of oversight to run the show.
It's the same reason Tressel replaced Bruce. Bruce was no angel but he had a habit of metaphorically (and probably literally) extending his middle finger in the direction of boosters who thought they were, or should be, in charge of the program. Tressel had made it pretty clear during his time at YSU that this was not his M.O.
If I could downvote myself, I would. Need sleep badly; my brain seems to be fried this morning.
It was Cooper replacing Bruce I was thinking of--I was told independently by two Ohio alums in a position to know, one a former player, that the problem with Bruce was less his results on the field than his attitude toward boosters and in particular toward a couple of incidents that they didn't want to go into in detail (I didn't even know what they were referring to, and still don't) but indicated with wink/smile/etc. They both acknowledged that Bruce was a "hell of a coach" to quote one of them, but there was a sense that as long as he was there the program was being held back.
It wasn't hard to figure out in general what they were saying, even in the complete absence of details. That tension in the community over just how hard the regulatory and ethical envelopes of competition should be pushed, or simply ignored, has never gone away--I suppose it's in every program but they seem to have an especially bad case of it. Each of the changes, Bruce -> Cooper, Cooper-> Tressel, Geiger* -> Smith, was a victory for the whatever-it-takes faction, but the other group has always been around, even if powerless.
My thought at the time, probably based on what I knew about Cooper's history, was that this was about steroid use. I didn't even think about recruiting issues until much later.
*Yes, I know Geiger retired and no, I don't think he was forced out. I do think that dealing with this stuff wore him down and probably hastened his retirement, but mostly it's a question of who was chosen to replace him and why.
on this. Note, they also invented a new position at OSU when Geno was hired so that his wife could have a job. When she retired in 2010, he got a pay boost, pretty much equal to what her salary had been. Million smackers a year to just look the other way and be shocked at things.
Comment on potential OSU violations. I read that Jeff Heuerman may have introduced his brother, Anzalone and Bosa to this guy because he thought he was a "cool guy." If that's true, let's ignore the incredible bad judge of character Heuerman is for a second. Nobody I knew during college would meet a random 31 year old guy and feel compelled to introduce the guy to his brother. Add that to the rumors that the pedo was providing drinks (illegal and a violation) and food (a violation) to the three recruits and you have to ask questions.
I would be very worried that he had been providing Jeff Heuerman and (very likely - I can't imagine that he focuses on just one kid on the team) other players with food and drinks when they went to BWW. If so, that looks like it may be a significant amount of additional violations coming OSU's way. Now, with the way the NCAA has treated OSU in the past, I doubt anything comes of this or that there is even much of an investigation. I obviously don't even know if this is true - it's all speculation - but based on what I've read about this story, I'd be concerned if I was OSU today.
This guy ended up being a pedophile, but to say that Heuerman is a "bad judge of character" for that (if what you read is even true...) is going off the deep end a little bit. Whenever I've read about something like this coming to light, the most common comment from people that were interviewed is, "No one had any idea. We're shocked." He's a kid, not a human lie detector. It's not like he did an in-depth investigation into his past and come to the conclusion that this was a squeaky clean guy.
I see your point, but if I were a 17 or 18 year old I probably wouldn't want to hang out with a 31 year old guy that offered me a beer. Chances are said 31 year old has some issues.
True, I'd just describe it as being naive rather than being an incredibly bad judge of character.
In defense of my original statement (about Heuerman being a bad judge of character) - I will note that I am not talking about a junior in high school. I was speaking about his older brother Jeff who is a sophomore and therefore 20 years old. In addition, if everything about him introducing his brother and the two other prospects to this guy because the pedophile provided them with free drinks and food is true, the kid isn't just a bad judge of character - he's an idiot. He lived through tatgate, he knows ohio is on probation, he must have been told hundreds of times to not take things for free - yet not only does he know this guy provides free stuff to football players, he takes three high profile recruits there so that they can get in on the action. Just seems idiotic. Again, who knows what is true in this story - I'm thinking the truth is not going to come out here - so all this could be false rumors from 11warriors.
Who knows how many current players' pockets he's in with freebies. Now those who host visits have a place to "show recruits a good time" and continue to take him up on it. Hence, he has access to players, recruits for photos, twitter, etc.
It's not out of the realm of possibility that a recruit or two "went along with it" while there, but didn't feel good about the situation they were "put in" (c'mon how many visitors are gonna be man enough to say, "No thanks, I'll just stay back here in the dorm" at 17 &18??).
Or, someone (a concerned fan who puts 2 & 2 together out one night at BWW's) notifies compliance, who leans on Urb, players, recruits. Now Dad is pissed that his son is about to be cast in poor light (underage drinking, benefits, etc) and yoinks there kid, claiming the school should know what's going on under it's noses.
Just saying, potential could be huge even without the pedo thing, just fuel on the fire.
a concerned fan who puts 2 & 2 together out one night at BWW's
If more Ohio fans would take this attitude they wouldn't be in the position they're in. How many people knew about Rife, about Talbott, about DiGeronimo, and did nothing? There was a guy on the OSU scout board who put up posts with details about Talbott just as the story was breaking, many (maybe all) of them accurate as things turned out, and every one of them was quickly moderated away as baseless speculation.
At some point the community has to at least try to police itself.
Mathematically challenged, but not dumb. Turning in a Buckeye player or recruit is not a smart move in Columbus. Just ask all the people who received death threats during the Tressel investigation.
Really not surprised recruits and their parents would be disgusted with things there.
Who knows what the hell else could be going on there,
How much free time alone do recruits have during a visit? During an official visit, if it matters? Are they escorted most or all of the time by a representative (even if it's just a student or player or recruiting hostess or whatnot)?
The ohio athletic department just released a statement about the pedophile. It's on 11W front page, but I can't find an original link to it.
It might as well say "Dear NCAA, THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE HERE!"
Among other things, it states that this guy is "not a booster." I think they might need to look up the NCAA's definition of a booster.
Between the "not a booster" statement and the email reminding students of ncaa rules on accepting benefits, it sure sounds like Ohio is circling the wagons over something shady that happened during the spring game visit.
As always. *Sigh*
Why don't they get it over with and just move to the SEC already? Ohio is adjacent to Kentucky and as far south as Missouri. They could make the case that they are a geographic fit.
They certainly are a cultural fit.
To the Ohio fans here: thanks for keeping things civil, and I hope most of us will reciprocate in kind. Obviously, I'll disagree with 99% of what you say and I won't shed too many tears if this mushrooms into something horribly for your program, but I do think OSU's compliance dept. acted properly here and it's too soon to say if this is another proverbial tip of the iceberg. If this more shenanigans, at least it'll have the net effect of getting Gene Smith outta there, which I think both sides can all agree shoulda happened ages ago. (does he have naked pictures of Myles Brand?)
I am disappointed by the fans who've made this a pogrom against Anzalone's parents - the main concern at this point is just hoping that the kids won't feel any really bad after-effects from this, no matter where they wind up - they are still HS kids, let's not forget (albeit ones that could break me in half)
I'm sure Henne would help a fellow player out, regardless of school.
I am trying with every fiber of my being not to compare Urban Meyer's rocky start with RR's rough start at Michigan.
But man it's hard. Meyer is rapidly using up his goodwill at Ohio State. Situations like this don't help. Even some of the most head-in-the-sand Buckeye fans are starting to ask themselves "Are we sure that this is the path we want to head down?"
Don't be fooled with how they respond to us, they don't like having to constantly be on the defensive about their AD and coaching staff. It wears you down.
Throw in a few unexpected losses in the fall and you have a volitile mix on your hands. In RR's case, he was never able to recover from it.
Not saying that it will happen to Meyer . . . he is not RR, and Ohio State is not Michigan. But you hate to start off on a bad foot and have reduced your margin of error before any games are even played.
Does this mean you want Ohio State and Urban Meyer to succeed?
Not a single Ohio fan with a brain is blaming this on Urban Meyer.
EDIT: Har, har, har they don't exist!
I think the fact that Anzalone's father is so upset, means either his son was put in harms way or was allowed to participate in something that could have put him in harms way. Regardless of what it is, I think it's something more than just the creepy pedo dude being allowed such ease of access to players.
I hate when I have to agree with Chitown. So I won't. :-)
I wonder if what "turned off" anzalone wasn't so much who he was meeting as the when and where he was meeting them. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't more about the culture of corruption down in columbus and urban's "close your eyes free for all" approach to recruit entertainment.
I think (allegedly) the problem was more or less along the lines of, somehow they ended up at an establishment where the guy worked (a B-dubs), and he served them free food and beer.
Granted, it could happen anywhere, but it didn't. It happened at OSU, again.
I'm not saying they should be penalized, but this would be (sort of) akin to Hoke coming in last year, and failing to log a few weeks worth of practice time.
You just went through this gigantic, embarrassing ordeal involving shady people outside the program giving athletes improper benefits that made your compliance office look like a joke, and you let something similar to it happen again?
If the stuff about him providing free food and beer is true, which so far is only alleged through a message board post, so, yeah..., I think you can make a case for why this is a big deal and for why it isn't.
For:
1. OSU is on probation (this is the element from which any argument that this is a big deal flows)
2. It was improper benefits given to athletes by non-OSU actors in Columbus that lay at the origins of the recent sanctions. It was improper benefits to Posey and Herron that represented the straw that broke the camel's back, that led the NCAA to impose the failure to monitor charge.
3. This incident allegedly involved free alcohol to minors.
4. This incident occurred on a recruiting trip, where the expected level of supervision should be higher. It occurred in the presence of current OSU student-athletes.
Against:
1. What is this, maybe $80 in improper benefits? The previous matters were in the thousands.
2. The guy involved in the Posey/Herron case was a registered booster who had donated money and long employed and interacted with OSU athletes. This guy was never on OSU's radar because his history with their athletes was very brief and his identity may well have been unknown to the AD.
3. The incident occurred off campus, at a non-sanctioned event.
I think it comes down to the question of how much probation changes the standards of supervision. In any other case, OSU would get the benefit of the doubt by reporting so quickly and because of the piddling amounts of money involved (perhaps the alcohol would raise eyebrows at the NCAA). But being on probation, for a related pattern of incidents (calling them "similar" probably goes too far) may mean that OSU forfeits benefit of the doubt.
*Again, we don't even know if he got them the free food and beer, so all of this is based on conjecture.
Yeah, OSU can't be blamed for the photo or for him meeting the players.
If the stuff about OSU players taking recruits to his place of work, so he could provide free food and beer to recruits on a campus visit is true, however, then they may be in pretty deep trouble, given OSU's probationary status. On the one hand, it's pretty small change impermissible benefits. On the other, it goes to half of the reason OSU's on probation (the half that's not about Tressel lying).
I don't know if the NCAA regards the principle of the violation or the monetary value of the violation paramount when evaluating a potential violation for a team on probation.
My two cents that probably aren't even worth that:
I don't think Anzalone's dad holds OSU responsible for the fact that this guy is a creep, and he's said as much in the ESPN article. The problem is that OSU evidently didn't give the visit any structure to make sure the kids were having a good time without the chance of getting into trouble. That's not an OSU specific problem whatsoever.
It makes sense though. If I'm a parent, send my kid off to a campus on a recruiting visit, and hear later on that he spent his night out on the town being offered drinks by a pedophile, I'd probably flip out.
Maybe OSU is using shady recruiting tactics in there somewhere, but I don't think there's any indication of that in this story.
I and most everyone else who went to freshman orientation got blackout drunk or nearly so on our last night, but none of us were athletes. Kids will be kids, but I get the feeling the Urban encourages 'the girls' to show them 'a good time'.
What gives you that feeling, precisely?
I know you have taken some heat in this thread, but I do like that you bring a "devil's advocate" point of view to the table. Here are my thoughts (even if they are unpopular and are deemed worthy of being negged).
- Anzalone was creeped out by the guy
- There were probably some things that he received from said guy (beer, food, or other things at BWW)
- The ESPN article says that Anzalone's father doesn't blame Urban Meyer or Ohio State
- The ESPN article says that Anzalone may reconsider OSU, something that was reported earlier that he wouldn't do
- There is something strange going on here. I can't help but feel the "unspoken facts" are creepy beyond creepy. Otherwise they woudl be reported. It could be nothing, but it does have my "spidey senses" tingling.
- OSU has a recent track record of compliance problems, a booster giving benefits to players could be the start of a snowball that OSU administration won't be able to control - whether they had direct knowledge or not.
Just my 2 cents.