Serious Question - Ron English vs. Scott Schafer/Greg Robinson

Submitted by k06em01 on November 14th, 2009 at 2:45 PM

I remember our Ron English led defense being pretty good against Florida in Lloyd's last game. I remember thinking that the defense was going to be the reason that we were respectable last season (there wasn't THAT much change in personnel). But instead, in the last two seasons, it has been a huge, huge weakness.

So, the question that I am asking here is this - If Rich Rodriguez had retained Ron English (and some of his defensive assistants). If he would have made Tony Gibson his assistant recruiting coordinator (or something), and Bruce Tall as his special teams coach (or something). How much better (or worse) would this defense be!?

Was a change in defensive philosophy REALLY necessary!? If you're basing your guess on how we looked at the (very) end of Lloyd's last season, it's hard to say yes. Keep in mind that Ron English was an excellent recrutier. Keep in mind that several defensive players that have left probably would have stayed. Keep in mind that he could've really helped Rich Rod adjust to UofM's traditions.

RichRod's offense is already started to flash the potential of what it could be with a true freshman quarterback and a bunch of veterans that don't really fit the system. But his handling of the defensive staff has been nothing short of atrocious to this point. Maybe it will work out eventually, but good Lord. Might have been able to have an Urban Meyer/Charlie Strong thing going here (and I am ONLY saying that because they're both black! lol).

EDIT - hopefully my sarcasm won't be overlooked here.

DOUBLE EDIT - I am NOT saying that Greg Robinson is a bad coach...that he is doing a bad job with what he has to workout, or that he won't eventually working out...i'm just saying that the transition could have been handled better on the defensive side of the ball.


West Texas Blue

November 14th, 2009 at 3:01 PM ^

Okay, that's nice, but what does that have to do with the 2009 Michigan team? Woulda, coulda, shoulda; all of this gets us nowhere. We know where we stand (poor talent, lack of depth, inexperienced players, walkons), so we're at a point where we know D is bad and no one is going to fix it at this point. We recruit, get some good secondary and LB studs in, and start building for next year.


November 14th, 2009 at 3:58 PM ^

Ron English had the likes of Lamarr Woodley, Alan Branch, harris, Hall, Jamison, Crable and so on the year his defense was all everything ... up until OSU and USC. Robinson has a 3rd the talent ... that being Warren, Graham and Martin. The weak spot on English's defense was Morgan Trent who is now the starting nickleback for Cincinnati.


November 14th, 2009 at 4:02 PM ^

woodley - graham.
branch - martin.
harris - ezeh.
hall - warren.
crable - roh.

obviously, the talent is way less. but we've still got some at some positions. people are hearing me wrong here. im not saying that we would have been great or anything...i am just saying that more continuity MIGHT have resulted in a less horrible defense. I'm not even taking sides. I'm just posing a question.

and i'm also asking if this would have been better or not long term...i dont know. maybe.


November 14th, 2009 at 5:01 PM ^

Shawn Crable doesn't = Roh ... maybe in a year or two. Martin is really good but doesn't equal Branch and Taylor and the depth there. No Ezeh is no Harris ... not even close I'm not even surehe is Chris Graham .

Like i said we have 3 good players, Warren, Martin and Graham. That defense had Adams, leon hall, morgan trent at DB they had Prescott burgess, Shawn Crable (DE/OLB), Chris Graham, David Harris at LB. We had Lamarr Woodley, Terrance Taylor, Alan branch and Rondell Biggs on our Dline. We have no one else that has any experience and we have no depth. I good DB does not a good secondary make. 0 good LBs doesn't either. I don't know a DC around that could have done a shitty job with that.


November 14th, 2009 at 4:14 PM ^

"We recruit, get some good secondary and LB studs in, and start building for next year."

Other than recruiting Marvin Robinson, what have we done so far in this regard? I'm not trying to be a prick, I"m serious. RR is not focusing on defense either on the field or in recruiting, GERG doesn't recruit, our defensive position coaches are a joke, who the heck is going to fix this? I wish I was as optimistic as you about the future of our defense.

West Texas Blue

November 14th, 2009 at 4:25 PM ^

Yeah, Rod isn't focusing on the D. Hmm, wonder why the majority of our offers for the 2011 class are for defensive recruits? Hmm, wonder why we already have 3 DB commits and are going to get 3-4 more (Christian, Grimes, Knight, hopefully Jefferson or Parker). Hmm we got Robinson, but how about Furman and Olaniyan? Who cares if Greg Robinson doesn't recruit; our other recruiters are really good and we'll be fine.


November 14th, 2009 at 3:49 PM ^

adaquete!? the team on the other side of the field had a heisman trophy winning quarterback (one of the best in the history of college fball), and an array of well developed 4 and 5 stars at every single position. he got friggin' nailed like two dozen times in that game. we played freaking great, i thought. it was an awesome team. some yards, some points, were inevitable. we did what we had to do. and that was great.


November 15th, 2009 at 4:29 AM ^

"LSU - good but somewhat underperforming" - THEY WON THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!?!?!?

Georgia was awesome that year. ANIHILATED their opponent in a bcs bowl that year, right?

Auburn was good that year - a defense i would LOVE to have.

Ole Miss is the only simply above average defense on that list.


November 14th, 2009 at 2:56 PM ^

GERG has only Graham and Warren to work with. The safeties cannot cover shit. Linebackers cannot cover a fucking TE.

It just sucks how we gave up 45 points to Wisconsin.


November 14th, 2009 at 2:58 PM ^

English had 2 LB's who could run and save the collective mistakes of everyone else....David Harris and Shawn Crable made enough plays to make English look like a miracle worker.

Besides basicly ZERO talent on D....the LB's are your typical LC 6'2 and 245 lbs stone footed guys that cant move in space.

If you dont believe that just watch Ezeh game after game...he always waits for the blocker in the hole to get to him...never attacks!