Rush to Judgement

Submitted by Ziff72 on February 21st, 2010 at 8:53 AM

The Conway meltdown has brought up something that has kind of bothered me for a while. With our depth problems the past few years we have been forced to play many young players and the minute they get on the field they are immediately "scouted" by the masses and so labeled despite the fact we know little or really closer to nothing about the million of circumstances surrounding their play.

When you saw the highlight of Conway in the open field did you know...he had an ankle sprain, it was in the 4th qtr and he had never left the field during the game, he had just run 2 fly routes the play before, he's 15-16 years old and at 6' 4" could still be adjustin to his body? All of thes things could have greatly impacted his speed.

T. Jones got on the field as a true frosh at a position he was switched to just weeks before and he was immediately dismissed. Someone actually said he looked too slow.

M. Shaw got hauled down in Minny as a freshmen and people said he wasn't the home run threat we hoped for. Later we learned he had pretty severe groin injury.

V. Smith was labeled M. Hart slow when he got hauled down last year despite the fact he had carried the ball several plays in a row and we had no idea how fast the guy that caught him was.

I think it has something to do with the unknown being better than the known or the grass is greener theory. I'm just glad now that J. Turner wasn't thrown on the field before he was ready or we'd all have a true freshmen depth chart at CB.

Just a little patience people.


Robbie Moore

February 21st, 2010 at 11:38 AM ^

I'm tired of people crapping on 18 year olds... Very well put. They are crapped on by the uninformed masses who think they can judge talent better than coaches after looking at one or two YouTube posts. They are also crapped on by grown up media members who cast stones in glass houses.


February 22nd, 2010 at 11:59 AM ^

There were a very small minority of posters even mildly critical of the commit. A couple of meltdown types, and a couple of people on the fence don't represent the board as a whole. If you have some issue with these individuals, please feel free to take it up with them. Ridiculous. I invite eveyone commenting on this "meltdown" to actually go back and read through the thread.


February 21st, 2010 at 9:28 AM ^

I love that Conway wants to play at Michigan, but wouldn't he have wanted to play at Michigan just as bad in December? We only have 14 spots, and we are giving a scholarship to a kid that has no real life experience against top talent because of the QB and conference he works in. The same argument can be made for Hardaway on the basketball side but he is responding by getting 30 points a game because he is the only talent (I know he is not the QB, but look at how other coaches use their top talent like Dileo who rushes, receives and returns.)
The case can be made that with only 14 scholarships these should be GOLDEN tickets this year. We know Coach is going to get the hardest working kids in the nation, because otherwise they will wash out from the program. With 14 spots in February I think you need to nurture relationships like Conway, but hold out for talent that is a slam dunk to make it at the next level. Getting a guy being projected as a red-shirt and possibly a position change is not the right move in Feb. I don’t think it would have been hard for Coach to state, “We like what we see thus far and are going to follow you closely over your Sr. year, but we need to see more video before we pull the trigger, because your Jr year stats did not make a compelling case.”
That said, welcome to Michigan Conway! It is a great to have a True Blue man on the field that we won’t have to teach tradition (Donovan Warren), but has lived and breathed tradition his entire life.


February 21st, 2010 at 11:06 AM ^

plus one to you. I always wondered if people really do this...


Dear RichRod,

I am a very long term Michigan fan. I sit in section 7 about halfway up and yell at people to sit down. I follow the recruiting pretty obsessively and have found I dislike your current committed player (insert Vinopal or Conway or any random 3 star). I have extensively scouted this player via googlestalking, using Rivals, Scout and I added them as a friend in Facebook. Anyway, I am COMPLETELY DISSATISFIED (note must use all caps here) with the offer to this player and I think Michigan should get higher rated players (insert your suggestions here).


The most loyal Michigan fan ever


February 21st, 2010 at 9:51 AM ^

And the baseless assumptions just keep on coming.

One example: "Getting a guy being projected as a red-shirt and possibly a position change is not the right move in Feb."

Who is projecting him to change positions? If you mean the pundits here and on scout or rivals, well, please spare us arguments based on their statements. Trust the coaches instead.

And since when is a redshirt a bad thing?

EDIT - and I must say to the OP - Great post.


February 21st, 2010 at 10:43 AM ^

This strategy worked out so well with Hankins last year.

Also, getting Conway does not negate the ability to get a top flight wide receiver. After going 3-9 and 5-7 and getting all the wide receivers we did last year, we weren't going to get two 5* OMG SHIRTLESS wide receiver recruits. We might get one, especially with Arnett growing up in our backyard, but not two. The coaches like what they saw from Conway and gave him a scholarship. They knew the wanted 2 receivers in the class from the onset and feel Conway can contribute. With his hands and the ability he has to catch the ball in traffic, I think he can contribute too.

Really there isn't anything to worry about here. We'll still be going 100% after Arnett et al.


February 21st, 2010 at 11:52 AM ^

You're right. It's not the same thing. This kid's name is Conway, not Hankins. He's a receiver, not a defensive tackle. He's got zero offers at this point while Hankins had a few middling ones.

They're not the same, but the OP's original reasoning was very reminiscent of how the Hankins case went down. Maybe Conway never gets the offers Hankins eventually did, but his assumption that a life long Michigan fan will wait the process out to get his offer and then commit doesn't always work. The Hankins case is close but not PERFECTLY IDENTICAL case which in my opinion is enough of a parallel to use it as evidence.

Magnus, I really respect your posts. You provide a lot of insight that a more casual fan like me can't ascertain as easily. You keep a level head most of the time, and its much appreciated in contrast the waves of emotion that flood around here from time to time. But sometimes it just seems like you're looking for things to nit pick about.


February 21st, 2010 at 12:23 PM ^

Hey, I like Conway. I don't have any problem with the offer. I just don't see the connection between Hankins and Conway. They're completely different situations.

Hankins camped with us during the summer and really wanted an offer, even though he already had other offers from BCS schools. We offered him virtually at the last minute. He saw right through it when he said something like, "It seemed like I was their last resort." And he was. Virtually every other NT prospect had shunned us.

Conway doesn't have any other offers, and offering him during the summer or even the fall might not be "too late" like it was in Hankins's case.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm nitpicking. I just don't think the situations are that similar.

Maize and Blue…

February 21st, 2010 at 5:47 PM ^

deprogram Arnett from the brainwashing he is getting from a certain fellow Big Ten school there is no way he is coming here. With quotes like "I love Pro Style" and the mention of Charles Rogers (yes that C. Rogers who has spent time in jail and was a huge BUST)I'm sure you can figure out where he is getting his info.
Maybe we need to have LaMarr and his Super Bowl ring have a little talk with DeAnthony. I think for his sake he should fellow Woodley's path instead of Rogers.


February 21st, 2010 at 10:58 AM ^

the kid doesn't deserve a golden ticket? He seems to have great attributes, the only one missing being blazing speed, which could be honed a titch between now and his senior year and Barwisizing. I also feel good about the pickup and look for him to prove the doubters wrong, welcome to the Woverines Shawn!

Michigan Arrogance

February 21st, 2010 at 9:36 AM ^

it's not his overall speed that concerns people. it's his top end speed. i mean, we've all had pizza that has had good savoriness, but not quite that TOP END SAVORINESS that we all know makes a 5* pizza eating experience.

/the goodt old days


February 21st, 2010 at 9:56 AM ^

Look, MA.

Sometimes it's late. You know Dominos is open. But Dominos sort of sucks, right? You'd rather have some artisan shit from that local pizzaria. Maybe something with GOAT'S CHEESE or shit. But you don't know if they're open! And it's 3:58 AM, and you know that if you waste time calling them, Dominos may shut down, and the only thing worse than Dominos pizza is NO PIZZA.

But let's throw a wrinkle in there. You saw those ads for Dominos pizza. They've re-done their recipe, but you haven't really scouted it yet. Maybe Dominos is actually good now. You've heard people say good things. You've seen the pictures - it actually looks pretty fucking good. Does that change the arithmetic at all? Might you be willing to roll the dice on it, given the certainty and the TSP (Tremendous Savoriness Potential)? I think you might. Besides, who the fuck wants Goat's Cheese at 4 AM?

turbo cool

February 21st, 2010 at 9:48 AM ^

It's unbelievable how much people like to criticize and critique someone that they just became familiar with. And in this case, it's via the internet, not even in person! This commit brought out the negative side of mgoblog and it's a shame.

Just because us fans are allowed this amazing forum to express our opinion on Michigan sports, that doesn't give us the right to be blatantly disrespectful.


February 21st, 2010 at 10:02 AM ^

Even if he was slow, am I the only one who notices some pretty nasty shake-n-bake moves? If he had an ankle sprain, that's pretty absurd, because he probably caused quite a few that night too.

How can people really tell how fast someone is on film anyway? I always find that watching a race/someone running in person is a much different experience than on film.

"5'9'' white boys were catching him" Ignorance is bliss...

When I was in high school, the fastest kid in my school was a 5'9'' white boy who ran a 7.22 in the 60m race. (Denard recently ran a 6.81)

He also went on to run the 110m hurdles in college (on scholarship.)


February 21st, 2010 at 10:05 AM ^

As an American citizen with internet access, I have the inalienable rights not only to develop my own ridiculous and baseless opininos but also to fling them across the internets. Please stop clouding the issue with relevant facts. If I was the type of person to reserve judgement until there was sufficient evidence to rationally decide something, I might realize that spouting off "everbody who plays for us sucks and the sky is falling" doesn't really help anybody.


February 21st, 2010 at 10:48 AM ^

I'm sorry but I have to kind of lean toward his argument. This is the University of Michigan not Ohio University. Michigan has a deep and rich history and holds the all time win record they should be only accepting the best. What ever happened to the pyschology tactic or scarcity? You know, the lack of a product which makes people want it even more? You figure Michigan would be saying to all the recruits "I'm sorry but we only have 14 spots and were only taking the 14 best players because we're The University of Michigan." These young highschool players will want to be considered one of the best 14 that Michigan are recruiting and it will make them want it more. The fact that Michigan didn't get any unanimious 5 star athletes last year is just disappointing. I don't think it's coincidence that Florida and Texas are some of the best teams in the nation each year, sure they have great coaches, but they also have some of the best recruiting classes year in and year out with top end talent. You can argue all you want stars don't matter, and sure in some cases like Mike Hart it doesn't, but if you look at some of the big name schools and their recruiting classes, yes stars matter.

I understand that the coaches know what they're doing and I have faith in them but I'm just a little disappointed that we haven't been seeing some more top end talent. Sure, some of these players may be under the radar but out of the several under the radar players we've been taking.... how many of those are actually going to pan out? Yes the coaching staff are experienced recruiters but the national recruiting websites are experienced as well, it's their profesion. So, I have to agree with Backusdou and the rest of the people who aren't thrilled to see this commitment. Hopefully I'm eating my words in a few years.


February 21st, 2010 at 11:03 AM ^

Why shouldn't we compare ourselves with Texas and Florida? We're talking about the University of Michigan. We pack 110,000+ fans into our stadium to watch our teams play, we have the most wins in college football history. I'm sorry but if you want to be the best you need to compare yourself against the best, in my opinion. Three years ago we beat Florida, why shouldn't we compare ourselves to them? Again, we're Michigan, a historical football powerhouse not some school that hasn't experienced success.


February 21st, 2010 at 11:08 AM ^

Because while you LOVE the maize and blue, we're recruiting kids who for the most part are indifferent about being wolverines.

When they take visits elsewhere, they see Urban Meyer's two crystal footballs from the past 4 years, and Texas' conference championships, or OSU's clock in the locker room counting the days since Michigan has beaten them and they couldn't care less about what Fielding Yost and Bo did for this program. Hell, most of them probably don't even know who Yost and Bo are.

You care about tradition because you're a fan. They care about winning and getting to the NFL. Florida, USC, Texas, etc. have been doing that better than Michigan in recent memory.


February 21st, 2010 at 11:09 AM ^

So let's not accept any player rated under 4 stars. Then let's see what kind of recruiting class we wind up with--probably 2 or 3 outstanding players and a bunch of scrubs we take at the last minute after striking out on all the other prospects.

david from wyoming

February 21st, 2010 at 11:31 AM ^

So let me explain why I'm being such an ass in this thread...

I don't think Rivals/Scout star rankings are according to Hoyle the gospel of future productivity. I'll gladly trust a good coach's opinion of someone he sees in person rather than a for-profit company which primary concern is making money (and not judge talent). Our 'lack of top end talent' just reeks of a bad internet meme which a poster is screaming UNACCEPTABLE for all the wrong reasons. I think Rich Rod is a great coach (this is a different thread topic) and I trust his judgment of players more than Rivals/Scout.

And at the end of the day, me worrying about not landing 5 star recruits doesn't amount to a hill of why worry?


February 21st, 2010 at 10:51 AM ^

2008, 13-1, National Championship
2009, 13-1, BCS Bowl Win

2008, 12-1, Fiesta Bowl Champions
2009, 13-1, Played in the National Championship Game

2008, 3-9, No Bowl
2009, 5-7, No Bowl

Game. Set. Match.