RR recruiting WTF??

Submitted by iawolve on

I know I am supposed to trust the guy, I know he has a great track record and I know he is getting paid waaaaaayyyyyy more than me to run the program. However, my head is spinning regarding some of our current recruiting. Magnus tracks this pretty close, so he might chime in to add clarity, but think about this for a bit.

We really need DT, Safeties and CBs on the defense. We have 20+ offers to Ends and LBs (where we have some numbers) with a only a handful of offers to the above three groups. I then read we offered 3 safeties from the same school in MD. Three! Do they have the best HS defense in the nation? It must have been a package deal since they added another one for the starting OT.

Brian mentioned this gray area we are getting into in regards to recruiting. Maybe this is the new wave, but we have an insane number of offers out there (like 10+ in the athlete category). Is that you really want them all and just take the first few commits? If 6 LBs fall next week, what do you say after the 3rd one? Anyhow, it just seems like it is all over the place.

Korean Wolverine20

April 24th, 2009 at 4:38 PM ^

Cause I'm sure you know how to organize a collegiate Football team and know more than RRod...

Calm down, Defensive Recruits are coming. If it was February 1, 2010, and we only had 2 D Recruits, I'd be yelling too, but IT'S FREAKING APRIL OF 2009!!!

Calm down, RRod knows what he's doing

bronxblue

April 24th, 2009 at 4:44 PM ^

I think this is what Brian was referring to as the "shotgun" approach by RR that might need to be reined in a bit. But again, I figure RR knows what he needs for his offense and defense, and I'm willing to give him a few recruiting cycles before getting much louder in my concern.

WolvinLA

April 24th, 2009 at 4:44 PM ^

We have more commits than any Big Ten school, and more than most every other school. There aren't a ton of DT prospects this year, so that has a lot to do with why we don't have as many offers out. We just got a commit from an outstanding safety, and we sit quite well for a number of CB's. Also, we have very little DE depth, I'm not sure where you got the idea that we do.

RR got a number of offensive commits early on, many of which were from highly ranked guys. It's SOOO early, let the guy do his thing.

markusr2007

April 24th, 2009 at 4:46 PM ^

It would be interesting to get a hold of a copy of one of them. Maybe Forcier's website has the UM offer on it (with the other 32 or 36 he got)?

I think this is less a reflection of RR's recruiting prowess, and more a signal as to how ridiculously wasteful and inefficient college football recruiting activities are today for universities (state tax dollars anyone?), coaches and staff, when you don't have an early signing period and recruits commit and decommit like crazy. You cannot rely on anything and must expend more time and resource from start to finish.

Michigan's off to a hot start for 2010, it is ueber-stacked with Slots and WRs now, and desperately needs quality LBs, DTs and DEs like no tomorrow. The QB position is looking better and better, however.

I'm confident UM will get the right kids in place in the end. I am only encouraged by UM's recent recruiting success in the South (FL, TX), PA, OH and Michigan. These are important feeder states.

Tacopants

April 24th, 2009 at 4:50 PM ^

All offers are conditional offers. We'd like to to play for us, provided you don't fail out of school, get arrested, or somebody takes your slot before. There's always something in the letters that gives the university an out.

I don't think there would ever be a letter with something like "We'd love to have you provided you bring player x along as well", which is what some of these teammate "offers" might be.

PurpleStuff

April 24th, 2009 at 6:01 PM ^

You realize that UM's entire athletic department is self sufficient and doesn't receive general university funds. The football program itself is EXTREMELY profitable and basically finances the non-revenue sports. This is the case at virtually every big time program in the country (SEE Jim Calhoun ranting about how his b-ball program gives money back to the University). While I agree that recruiting has become a giant cluster-F (due to the reasons you mentioned as well as the microscope coverage it receives now), any extra cost is absorbed by the athletic department itself without any change in the spending of tax dollars.

jmblue

April 25th, 2009 at 6:38 PM ^

Actually, most athletic departments (though not ours) aren't profitable, and receive university subsidies. However, that does not take into account the widely-observed phenomenon of big-time sports indirectly helping university finances (through increased applications/donations, etc.).

umjgheitma

April 24th, 2009 at 4:47 PM ^

After hearing all the talk about what the new defense will feature. It looks like we may only need like 3-4 DTs and we have 2 young good ones now. What we will need a lot of is LBs since not only will we need the standard 3 plus the hybrid LB/DE. So when you only need 1-2 DTs and 4 LBs on any given play I would say we should recruit more LB/DE type players which we are. Now your comment about needing safties and CBs followed by complaining about recruiting athletes seems contradictory. Don't you think these "athletes" could become players in the defensive secondary. They are listed as athletes most likely because in HS they play both CB and WR or something along those lines and therefore could be used as either on any team.

I don't really see an issue with the way things are heading since we look way ahead of most of the Big Ten in recruiting , except possibly Ohio State. We are also creating pipelines into Florida that never existed in a matter of RR being here roughly 1.5 yrs. I have a feeling come Feb. 2010 things will look nice for M.

Marley Nowell

April 24th, 2009 at 4:50 PM ^

Last year's recruiting class was phenomenal considering how bad a season we had. The only negative was not getting another DT to team with Big Will. The 2010 class is the first one RR has completely recruited with his staff. We all know we need DTs and guys in the secondary.

"In Rod We Trust"

Maize and Blue…

April 24th, 2009 at 5:04 PM ^

We already have one safety committed for 2010 and Bell will be hear in the fall. Odds are that at least one of the WR recruits ends up at DB. In the case you mentioned about the LBs, if three fall next week they would pull the other offers unless the guy was a stud.
From everything I hear this is a weak year for DT and there is a possibility that they switch Ferrera back to DT. Plus if they do use more of a 3-4 this could help cover up that current weakness to some extent. AS for CB, we are looking good for some excellent corners plus we still have JT who can play CB or S and Witty (probably redshirt) coming in the fall. The 3 from the same school in MD is not TRUE!
We do not have numbers at end, until last year there weren't any signed for two seasons and we are sorely lacking true MLBs.

Zonereadstretch

April 24th, 2009 at 5:12 PM ^

In regards to DT, I understand your concern, but from what I’ve read there’s just not much interest from the higher caliber DT’s in the 2010 class for some reason. As of late we’re making great progress with Sharrif Floyd, and granted this is only speculation, but based on the limited offers out there for DT’s I can only suggest that the defense will in fact switch from a 4 man front to a 3 man front from here on out, but like I said that’s just a guess.

In regards to the defensive backfield I think we’ll be just fine. We’re in the top 3 for recruits such as Lo Wood, Cullen Christian, Dior Mathis, and Latwan Anderson, and will most likely establish a stronger footing with Mylan Hicks. With the recent commitment of Marvin Robinson I think this year’s secondary class has the makings of an exceptional class. Also in reference to the offers for the kids out of MD, I would just sit back and trust RR and his staff, I’m not saying RR has ulterior motives other than getting high caliber players that will help us win, but this area could prove to be a future pipeline for us as we’re not as established in this area as I’m sure RR would like us to be. I haven’t seen any footage on Lorenzo Waters; (1) of the kids out of MD, but looking at his profile he’s bigger and faster that M-Rob so I don’t think he’s anything to scoff at, but then again there’s a lot more that size and speed that’s needed to translate to success on the field. All in all don’t worry there’s plenty of time left until signing day 2010.

The Other Brian

April 24th, 2009 at 5:33 PM ^

Sometimes I wonder if people honestly understand the basics of recruiting.

The coaches know what they want. Believe it or not, they DO know what they're doing. We need corners? We're in great position with Lo Wood, Cullen Christian and Dior Mathis. We need safeties? The coaches are offering safeties, but wait, they're offering TOO MANY!! We need DTs? It's a terrible year for DTs, especially in the midwest. But guess what? We're not going to need 6 pure DTs on the roster as long as Greg Robinson is DC.

There are over 100 offers out there right now. Do you think they're all equal? Absolutely NOT. The coaches make it clear to kids where they fall on the pecking order. Devin Gardner was the #1 target at QB. Austin White is the #1 target at RB. The coaches know who they want, and they make it clear to all the recruits. They slowplay those that aren't #1 guys.

ShockFX

April 24th, 2009 at 5:58 PM ^

Bullshit, I commit 90points to a recruit (less if they are instate) and after picking prestige everytime (who doesn't want to play for a school with MICHIGAN'S!!!! prestige?!?!?!) they commit. I get 14 5*s a class, and reload the recruiting session otherwise. I know ALL about recruiting. RR suxxors at it.

TomVH

April 24th, 2009 at 6:10 PM ^

I've said this before, somewhat. This past recruiting "season" was hectic, frantic, and different. There was a lot of pressure on RR to get "his guys." I think he did some things that he normally doesn't do, and we've seen the difference already.

Every recruit that walks away from their visit gushes about the family, the environment, and how much they loved Coach Rodriguez. Last year they needed the foundation to build off of, and they did a pretty good job.

In regards to Peace and Barnes, I don't really have a problem with it, if it's not a normal practice. Besides the fans that watch Michigan recruiting closely, no one really saw it as us telling the kid to go away. It kind of faded into the "another decommit" category. That wasn't all that positive either, but atleast no one reported that RR booted the kids.

We won't see very much, if any, of that from Rodriguez anymore. I think it's funny when people compare his recruiting at WVU to what he is able to do. The guy can recruit. He's proven he can sell a crappy product (WVU), and now he has a sales job where the product sells itself. He can just be himself, and the kids seam to take to that. As someone said in this thread, the recruits know when they're wanted. They know who's number 1.

If you really pay attention, sometimes the lower ranked player will wait to see where the better players go, then make their decision. While they don't mind competition, they're not stupid.

ShockFX

April 24th, 2009 at 6:26 PM ^

"If you really pay attention, sometimes the lower ranked player will wait to see where the better players go, then make their decision. While they don't mind competition, they're not stupid."

This needs to posted somewhere in EVERY recruiting post. Either that or we shoot people that say player x decommited from school y because he's afraid of competition.

Magnus

April 24th, 2009 at 5:51 PM ^

As The Other Brian said, we are in good shape for some cornerbacks, like Mathis, Wood, and Christian. Cullen Christian will end up at safety, though (in my opinion). I'd guess that we'll get at least two of those three guys.

As far as defensive line goes, with the [mostly] three-man front that Greg Robinson wants to run, our need for DTs is lessened considerably. If you've noticed the way that Patterson and Banks have bulked up, they're going to be playing more in a 5-tech. We're recruiting some traditional DEs like Derrick Bryant and Lynden Trail, but we're also recruiting some guys who could bulk up and play DT, such as Jibreel Black, Kyle Baublitz, Chase Rome (who committed to OK State, but we offered him), and Darryl Baldwin.

And like others have said, this is a weak crop of true DTs. So I'm not particularly worried right now. I think things will turn out just fine, especially if our team improves this year.

StephenRKass

April 24th, 2009 at 6:29 PM ^

(note - this was part of a response to Brian's post on recruiting and offers.) I'm very curious about the ratio of offers to spots. Currently, 8 spots are filled, leaving 12 more openings, give or take. With 74 offers out on Brian's board, and maybe another 30 out there, that's a ratio of at least 8 offers to one spot. Is this common? My only point of reference, which is totally irrelevant, is admission to U of M. If there are 5,000 incoming Freshman every year, this ratio would mean there would be 40,000 acceptance letters to fill the class. Since Michigan is pretty selective, I'm sure the ratio is much lower. 74 plus offers on the table sounds like WVa recruiting to me, where you had to offer a lot more guys to fill the class. If Michigan already has 8 offers accepted, and we might expect 2 - 4 not to pan out out of all those "accepted," I would think that we need to be rescinding some of the offers in areas where we're filling up.

Specifically, with 4 WR's already on the board, I can't understand why we still have so many with offers still on the table. Have they been told, we're recruiting you as a DB?

StephenRKass

April 24th, 2009 at 7:27 PM ^

I get the need to acct for decommits. However, several of the decommits (Graves? Newsome? Maybe Beaver & McNeal?) were always fishy. I think that Tom V and Brian stated somewhere that RR was really scrambling, and did the best he could. I will put up an op on conditional offers.

Maize and Blue…

April 25th, 2009 at 8:07 AM ^

Students apply to the school because of the prestige of a Michigan degree we don't have to recruit them. I know there are far more applicants then those granted admission so you only send out a set amount of acceptances and put every one else on the waiting list. It doesn't work that way in big time college football- see Devin Gardner and OSU.
As for the WRs- DJ Williamson and Jerald Robinson both play DB also and I would bet they have been told they can come in as WR, but may be switched to DB. Robinson was listed as an athlete by one service.
As for spots- 9 are actually verballed at this point and I would guess that the class is going to be 22 again leaving another 13. You have to remember that odds are very small on some of those offered, but you can't just ignor them especially if they are great players. About three months people where handing Austin White to MSU so should Michigan not have offered? Things aren't looking to bad now.

baorao

April 24th, 2009 at 6:50 PM ^

is just a notification of interest. If the player doesn't reciprocate, its not worth withdrawing the offer. This isn't the game of musical chairs you're making it out to be.

Double Nickel BG

April 24th, 2009 at 7:56 PM ^

The rival and scout rankings just came out a month ago and will change 30284705940453701-4560 times before NSD next year. Theres always tons of kids that fly under the radar until after their senior year and then hit a few camps and combines and there stock explodes. Its way too early to judge kids talent right now.

foreverbluemaize

April 24th, 2009 at 11:18 PM ^

I think you would be a better poster on the Freep. That site is filled with spazoids like you who only want to bitch at the job RR is doing. We had the worst season in school history and still our recruiting was top 10. People outside of the box see UM football for what it really is. UM football has a tradition of being elite and I have not ever heard anyone say (with the exception of Suckeye fans) that UM would not be back on top very soon. Even ND fans know that our days at the bottom are very limited. Travel this country over and talk to people and they will all tell you the same thing, That UM football will be back and RR will get them there. Get off of his back and leave the WTF's for talking smack to a Suck nut.

PatBateman

April 25th, 2009 at 3:34 PM ^

I think most of you guys are forgetting how often players come in and switch positions in the first year or so. Receivers to db's, Safeties to LB's, TE's to DE's, LB's to DE's, it goes on and on. And with the way RR recruits, I'm sure most guys are able to make a solid transition to a new position (that they've probably played before anyways).

Magnus

April 25th, 2009 at 4:02 PM ^

Players often switch positions, but that doesn't mean they're good at their new position. A quick glance at some of the kids who have changed positions since coming to UM...

Watson
TE to DE
Result: N/A

Ferrara
DT to OG
Result: Mediocre starter last year, backup this year

Rogers
WR to CB to WR
Result: Very little playing time so far

Woolfolk
CB to FS
Result: N/A

Butler
TE to DE
Result: Very little PT

Dutch
WR to CB
Result: Practically zero PT

Graham
MLB to DT to DE
Result: Potential All-American

Helmuth
FB to DT
Result: N/A

B. Smith
S to LB
Result: N/A

A lot of these kids haven't had a chance to pan out yet...but it's hard to argue that kids who make position changes turn into effective players, based on recent evidence from UM. If Gordon comes to UM and switches to safety or linebacker after a year or two, there's not much evidence to say that he'll be a good linebacker. Same goes for Jerald Robinson, D.J. Williamson, etc.