RR confirms potential move for Campbell to OG

Submitted by Bodogblog on October 19th, 2010 at 2:50 PM

Another forum post on this earlier, but RR confirms. 

Sigh.  This doesn't sound like a motivating tactic.  And we're pretty well stacked at OG.  Not good, don't see how he can move like he'd need to in our OL zone blocking scheme.  And we are not stacked at NG behind Martin.  Bye-Bye dreams of Roh-Martin-RVB-Campbell line of Death and Destruction in 2011. 

http://detnews.com/article/20101019/SPORTS0201/10190422/U-M-considers-moving-William-Campbell-to-O-line

EDIT: Bonus speculation on who's moving from OG to OT, and switching safety positions. 

Comments

Ziff72

October 19th, 2010 at 3:36 PM ^

This is just stupid to even bring up by RR.   Leave it alone, if you want to try him out, try him out behind the walls of Fort Schembechler and let the insiders post ambiguous posts, before you blare it to the world.

FUCK YOU  DEFENSIVE 5 STAR HATING GOD.

ijohnb

October 19th, 2010 at 3:43 PM ^

this guy is really starting to piss me off.  He finds it "amuzing."  Coach, none of your fans find anything about what has happened to this program to be amuzing.  I don't find it amuzing that he is taking a shit on the only 15 minutes of life this team has showed since MSU blew into town. Open your f#%king eyes man.

jmblue

October 19th, 2010 at 3:56 PM ^

this guy is really starting to piss me off.  He finds it "amuzing."  Coach, none of your fans find anything about what has happened to this program to be amuzing.  I don't find it amuzing that he is taking a shit on the only 15 minutes of life this team has showed since MSU blew into town. Open your f#%king eyes man.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but this level of anger is a little unhealthy.  Maybe you should take a little internet break.

MFanNE

October 19th, 2010 at 3:45 PM ^

Not sure if it is just plain bad luck or some type of issue with players who are more highly ranked, but we seem to be burning through the more highly ranked players.  Wasnt Justin Turner also in the same class?  So the top ranked player from Michigan for that year as well as the top ranked player from Ohio, both supposed defensive phenoms both now appear to be lost causes. 

Dr.Jay

October 19th, 2010 at 3:50 PM ^

Sorry if I'm wrong but didin't BWC play some tackle in the Army All Star game(Same game he picked Michigan!!!) and he did pretty well if my memory serves me correct. I remember how the announcers said he could be dominant on either side of the ball in college.... What a monster of an OL that would be, Lewan, BWC, Molk, Omameh and Schofield??? Think positive people!!!!!!

Frank Drebin

October 19th, 2010 at 3:54 PM ^

What about the other changes. With BWC moving to OG, RR said that a guard would be moving to tackle. Is this Barnum? I can't think of another one, and he was a backup tackle last year if I remember correctly. I do agree that MRob would have to be an option for the safety move. Maybe Vinopal, but I think MRob has more natural ability and a huge upside.

Action

October 19th, 2010 at 3:54 PM ^

Do people think Rich Rod is happy with the defense and wants to move Campbell???  I think he would much prefer that Campbell be able to start and see the field on a crappy defense. 

If he will never cut it as a defensive player, then they should move him to offense. 

WolvinLA2

October 19th, 2010 at 4:12 PM ^

What about Roh? He's looking pretty good. How about both Gordons? They are defensive starters from that class. And Mike Jones was a solid contributor until he got hurt.

Also, I wouldn't call LaLota too much of a stud. He was a relatively low 4 star (5.8) who was very raw. Had he stayed he wouldn't be doing anything for us yet.

tenerson

October 19th, 2010 at 4:19 PM ^

I know. I realize there are more bright spots in the class than dull spots, however, I wish the guys listed would have turned out the way we expected. I'm not blaming anyone or anything. These things happen. I also have not given up hope on WC being a solid contributor by the time he is done. Maybe he could even be more than that, but I don't think this is a great sign. I didn't mean to be so negative there, but some of this bad luck or whatever anyone wants to call what is happening on the defensive side of the ball is getting increasingly frustrating. For the record I do have high hope for a lot of that class.

J.Swift

October 19th, 2010 at 4:03 PM ^

"Starting year two in the program, apparently no progress.  Here's my theory.

He's a bust."

It isn't that hard to figure out, is it, when all we heard from the coaching staff (after the signing day and post-signing day hype) was--silence.

Please note that Will Campbell and a certain cornerback, now spending time in another kind of program, were seen as proof that we, not MSU, still drew the best recruits.  Kinda makes me worry.

marlon

October 19th, 2010 at 6:10 PM ^

Nearly everyone acknowledged Will Campbell was "raw" coming in last year.  (See, e.g., "Concerns about raw technique are almost definitely legit..." at http://mgoblog.com/content/2009-recruiting-will-campbell; "Campbell is a big, but raw prospect who needs to keep developing his game." at http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/news/story?id=3519985; "Campbell was raw as hell..." at http://mgoblog.com/content/spring-position-battles-defense.)  In other words, he would likely need some time to get in better shape, learn better technique, adjust to the college game, etc.  On this the pundits proved correct: in the sparse playing time he saw last year, Campbell looked, well, raw.  What a surprise.  Raw player looks raw.

This is why your "prediction" is so asinine.  A player that almost everyone agreed would need time to develop didn't look good last year, but you deem him a "bust" nonetheless.  Apparently, William Campbell doesn't get a pass as a raw player entering just his second year in the program.  By your metric, Michigan has a lot of "busts."  I mean, Josh Furman was the seventh best safety in the country last year according to Scout, and he hasn't even cracked the two deep (this on a Michigan team whose starting safeties seem about as functional as a Jello dildo); likewise, Marvin Robinson was the eighteenth best safety in the country last year, and he's hardly played  a down.  Bust aaannd bust.  Right?

STW P. Brabbs

October 19th, 2010 at 4:09 PM ^

I just came up with this one.

Quinton Washington is moving to NT.  You heard it here first. 

YES.

Seriously though ... maybe this would work?  He's got the body for it ....

UMaD

October 19th, 2010 at 4:12 PM ^

WC red-shirts in 2011. Given that there has been one and only one OG recruit in the last 2 years (Q.Washington), there is a need for depth at the position after the Omameh/Barnum/Mealer trio depart after 2012.  WC can help that.

But lets look at the depth chart dominoes under two scenarios: red-shirt in 2011 or no red shirt.

Scenario A) Red-shirt. Three more years of WC, after a season of practicing technique, 2 years putting in work on the OL. 

2011: WC red-shirt - no impact

2012: log-jam at OG (Omameh, Mealer, Barnum all Seniors, Washington a Junior)... but moving an OG to OT would alleviate that.  OT is thin in 2011 (Lewan/Huyge/Schofield, no backups) and even thinner in 2012 (Lewan/Schofield/2011 recruits: Posada,Fisher).  2 Seniors and 2 Juniors (Washington and Carr) would look nice at OG.

2013: WC starts as a senior the year after the 2009 recruiting class moves on. 

Scenario B) No red-shirt: 2 more years of WC...

2011:  WC joins the OG log-jam and probably still doesn't play much behind Omameh, Washington and company.

2012:  Repeat

2013:  Washington is your only returning upperclassman at OG.

Oy...Scenario B is kinda ugly, and thats what seems more likely.  One alternative to consider is that WC maybe better at OT and can help shore up the aforementioned depth issues there in 2011 and 2012.  (Or someone like Barnum can focus on OT with WC there as a Plan C for OG.

Overall, you have to say: put the player where he is most likely to succeed. If WC can't function at DL, then move him.  The void on DL can be filled by recruiting I suppose. DL is a position where the mental side is less critical, and physical specimins like Martin can make impacts as true freshman. So, for 2011 and 2012, maybe this isn't so terrible...  My biggest concern is the long-term impacts to the OL.

I hope though that this is just a motivational tactic though.  But according to RR, motivation isn't the issue here.

Wolverine0056

October 19th, 2010 at 4:27 PM ^

While you make a good point about depth issues in the next few years, we don't know what the rest of the 2011 recruiting class is going to bring, let alone the 2012 class. I will agree that it may not look all that good for Big Will, but I don't see this happening or being permanent. Hopefully, this next offseason he can keep working out and on his techniques and make an impact next season. I can't classify him as a "bust" yet.

UMaD

October 19th, 2010 at 4:43 PM ^

OL always red-shirt.  That means a 2011 recruit won't be ready to play until the 2013 season, and even then its only freaks like Jake Long and Tyler Lewan that can do it competantly.  In a best case scenario right now, Q Washington is the ONLY veteran player at OG in 2013.  The 2009 class had no one else, and the 2010 class had no one at all.  We can project and hope that a 2011 recruit is ready to start but thats VERY wishful thinking.

I don't know if WC should move or not, but I do know that the long-term depth at OG (and OL in general) looks very dicey after 2012, and the recruiting classes in 2011 and 2012 are unlikely to help that.  Campbell, at least potentially, can.  The advantage he'd have is 4 years of physical development leading up to 2013.  He'll be phyiscally better off than a RS freshman (2011 recruit) and obviously more experienced...plus more mature and able to handle the off-field and mental aspects of playing.

SanDiegoWolverine

October 19th, 2010 at 7:13 PM ^

Math seems a bit off here.  If we get 5 or 6 OL prospects coming in in 2011 then 1 or 2 should be ready by 2012 and hopefully 3 or 4 ready by 2013.

In 2013 we would have Lewan, Schofield, Washington, and Pace as upperclassman with 5 or 6 2011 recruits competing with them for playing or time.  That's 9 or 10 guys on the OL with 3 or more years in the program for 2013.  Even you consider there might be one or two redshirt Freshman from the 2012 class ready to compete for time.  That sounds like like pretty solid depth and experience even without BWC reshirting.  I'm not worried at all.

UMaD

October 19th, 2010 at 9:20 PM ^

You think theres a 15 to 40% chance of red-shirt freshman who are ready to step into the starting lineup?  History says that is wildily optimistic.  Its very rare for red-shirt freshman to be signficant contributors. There are exceptions ( Long and Lewan appear to be special talents.  Omameh contributed last year, but it took a while.  Besides that?)  Relying on the 2011 recruiting class to contribute in 2012 is about as smart as relying on the 2010 class DBs to contribute in 2010.

I agree with 3 or 4 of the 2011 class being ready in 2013.  That seems likely, but even then they'll probably be first year starters as Sophomores.  I suppose thats working OK with Omameh, but you generally would prefer to have Juniors or Seniors starting, and underclassmen rotating in only when needed (or special talents / future NFL picks)

4 upperclassmen on the entire OL is bad news.  That is NOT solid depth, particularly when history indicates that we should expect some attrition within the next 3 years.

SanDiegoWolverine

October 20th, 2010 at 3:58 AM ^

I think it's reasonable to assume that what's looking like a good OL class will have 1 or 2 guys ready to compete to be in the two deep in in 2012.  Hell, all three of our redshirt freshman are in two deep this year.  Would you say that's a sign of a bad OL or lack of depth?  I wouldn't. I'd say it's a sign that this staff and recruit and quickly develop talented OL's.

As far as 2013,  If we have 4 guys who Seniors or Super Seniors and 5 or 6 guys that are Juniors I'd say that's 9 or 10 guys who are upperclassman not counting BWC.  Not to mention at least 4 of those guys will have enrolled a semester early and have even more experience.  Currently we have 4 OL's that are Seniors or Super Seniors and 3 that are Juniors (redshirt sophomores), plus 3 sophomores (redshirt frosh) on our two deep.  That's less deep and younger OL then we will have in 2013.  So please explain to me how you are worried about 2013.  BWC or no we should be set for 2013.

iawolve

October 19th, 2010 at 4:16 PM ^

Considering how highly rated he was as a recruit and at a position of need. We are washing out the limited amount of defensive recruits that we have signed between stuff like this and transfers/off the field issues. There is no scenario where this is a positive since I find it improbable he will play guard next year as a Jr leaving a possibility of a single year of guard play as his contribution at UM. 

3rdGenerationBlue

October 19th, 2010 at 4:26 PM ^

Someone please answer my question.......if Campbell isn't good enough to see the field this year on the D-line and needs to be moved to O-line then why did his redshirt get burned last year?

His Dudeness

October 19th, 2010 at 4:38 PM ^

It's times like this I wish the internet had a mega phone feature...

YOU DO NOT KNOW MORE ABOUT COACHING FOOTBALL THAN RICH ROD AND GREG ROBINSON!!!!!!

That is all...

3rdGenerationBlue

October 19th, 2010 at 4:52 PM ^

...in the hope that this move opens the door for a recruit that can have an immediate impact (though very unusual for a freshman on the D-line) and the move to O-line actually proves to be good for Big Will and the team....OR  (glass half empty version) this results in Big Will filing for transfer to a school that will play Michigan in the future and he spends the entire game dancing after TFL.

Please be the first take and not the second.......turning blue in the face from holding my breath.

Thrillhouse

October 19th, 2010 at 5:08 PM ^

Call me crazy, but I seem to remember either Rivals or Scout saying that he'd be a better fit for OT than DT at this level. I know for sure that was the case for Joseph Barksdale, so maybe I'm getting my wires crossed.

Don

October 19th, 2010 at 5:17 PM ^

It seems to be fairly well-established that RR has somewhat minimal day-to-day involvement with the defense; he's essentially admitted as much himself. That also appears to extend to player personnel decisions at game time, since apparently it was Robinson or some other defensive coach who decided in a fit of genius to yank Demens out of the lineup early against Iowa, and it was only when RR noticed this (and the result) that he got after GERG on the sidelines. Demens went right back in. I wonder if RR has also concluded that Campbell deserves more playing time, and instead of outright ordering his staff to play him, RR is dangling the possibility of taking a prize DL recruit completely out of the hands of the defensive coaching staff, in a "use it or lose it" sort of message. I say this in part because RR said that he was going to bring it up with his D staff, which seems to imply that the switch idea hadn't originated with them. A switch doesn't necessarily mean that the staff are doing a lousy job of development, given the well-established opinions by recruiting experts that WC was a better OL prospect anyhow. I think playing defense is as much a matter of having an attitude as physical talent, and I wonder if WC just doesn't have the requisite aggressiveness for success on the DL at this level. It would be disappointing to see him leave the defense if for no other reason that it's the unit in most need of talent right now.

STW P. Brabbs

October 19th, 2010 at 6:00 PM ^

This is a really interesting post.  Where did you get the info regarding the Demens and Ezeh substitutions on Saturday?  This does seem to make sense in light of what Rodriguez said on running the Campbell position switch past the defensive coaches, but I'm just curious. 

Not sure what I think about all this, to be honest.  I do hope that this is at leat in part a wake-up call either to the defensive coaches or to Will ... but I'm not sure why it needed to be public, in any event. Maybe that just gets players' attention better sometimes (Lloyd did this sometimes also; Braylon and "the same page" come to mind.)

bluenyc

October 19th, 2010 at 6:23 PM ^

I read about Coach Rod pulling Ezeh off as well, in an earlier thread.  If that was the case, then I am beginning to worry about GERG.  It troubled me that Demens was taken out on the 3rd series. 

Your theory sounds interesting.  If true, I would be a bit worried about GERG and the defensive coaches.  I don't think you should send any messages thru the media to either players or coaches especially.  This means that there is a communication breakdown and Coach Rod may be losing faith in GERG.  Now, it's pretty late wat work, so I may not be reading you correct.   Please correct if so.