Rojo Update
From a pretty reliable source........
Rojo will be leaving USC...... but it won't be towards Michigan. He wants to play wide out and Michigan isn't the place for him in his eyes. Unfortunately, ND and MSU are both candidates.
EDIT: I embellished the certainty of this (It was 3 AM. I'm surprised that I was even coherent).
He is certainly looking around. ND and MSU have been discussed. However, I have no idea as to how far down they are on his list of candidates. Michigan does not appear to be on his list.
I apologize if I misled anyone to think that this is a done deal. From my conversation with this "source," it sounds like it iis a matter of when and not if but, as we all know, until anything actually happens, it is only speculation, rumors, and/or hear-say.
Well that sucks. Rojo was a prime candidate for karmic redemption.. ND or MSU will cause me to break things.
Bleh. Disappointing, but understandable. I'm afraid this comes with the territory with Rodriguez's offense. If I were a wide receiver looking to go to the NFL, going to Michigan with Erik Campbell as my coach would have been much more attractive. Rodriguez's track record of getting receivers to the next level over 9 years as a head coach reads: Chris Henry. Also, Rodriguez said we wouldn't be going after these guys anyway. I'll just be happy about it; the more guys transfer from USC the better.
I think I catch your drift, but, "... going to Michigan with Erik Campbell as my coach would have been much more attractive..." ...?
No disrespect to Mr. Campbell (unless, if you believe in certain conspiracies, he has been indulging in some over-the-top negative recruiting), but I'd say Michigan's past attractiveness had much more to do with its long line of NFL QBs and "deathbot" receivers. Of course, a pro-style offense didn't hurt, either.
As many others have noted, the lack of a QB the last couple of years who can throw downfield reliably has definitely hurt. Poor Matthews...
You're putting way too much emphasis on QB quality. Calvin Johnson became a world destroyer with Reggie Ball as his qb. Campbell's record of coaching guys to the next level was positively outstanding.
Yeah, but Calvin Johnson is a world beater. Marginal talent looks much better when Chad Henne or Tom Brady is slinging the rock vice Reggie Ball or Steven Threet.
Braylon Edwards made freshman Chad Henne awesome, not the other way around.
Yeah, but I don't know if he was good enough to do it for Threet.
Here's Campbell's Iowa bio: http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/campbell_erik00.html
It's favorably impressive, yes, but I think context is important. College QBs that can throw an accurate deep ball don't grow on trees. Michigan has (again) had more than its share of those and they've run an offense that tends to feature one guy. I can see where someone like RoJo would've been drawn to Lloyd and not Rodriguez.
At West Virginia Rodriguez didn't have access to WR talent like Campbell did at Michigan. Also, do you think he'd hesitate to go deep if he could trust Forcier and Denard to do so?
Could only Campbell have coached Braylon Edwards to All-America status? I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. For what it's worth, I never heard Campbell being discussed as a future OC / head coach. Is it possible that part of his success was due to fortunate timing and placement? Also, does he get credit for not fully developing Steve Breaston?
Similarly, is it fair to blame Andy Moeller for (Jake Long and David Baas aside) the significant recent drop in UM linemen? It's tempting, but it might not be fair, either. It could just be a result of several lean recruiting years.
Again, I see the importance of coaching, but in the case of wide receivers there are some other important ingredients.
You're absolutely right. Its pretty rare, though, to find a QB specimen with the physical attributes to have great accuracy on the deep ball, and also be mobile enough to be a true "dual threat". Could DG be "that guy"? Perhaps.
Jim Harbaugh could do it. So could Demetrius Brown. On the other hand, Bo routinely tweaked his offensive scheme to suit what his QBs could do, (he said so in one of his first books). In Harbaugh and Brown, (Brown, especially) he had QBs who were legitimate threats to both put the ball deep into the hands of receivers, and also run an option look, wishbone, etc.
Bo often got criticized, (still does) for his lack of imagination on offense, but he was actually quite ahead of his time.
I watched the 1979 game against OSU on Hulu yesterday, and Bo had Hewlett, a true-freshman QB, starting and running the option. He had a mobile quarterback, someone Bo said, according to the commentators, had so much athleticism that he had to play him (not to mention Wangler's several interceptions the week prior). Until Hewlett threw an interception and hurt is ankle, he looked quite like today's dual-threat qb running a spread offense.
Whether Bo's adjustment to Hewlett's skills was ahead of his time I cannot say. But it did look strikingly familiar to spread offenses run today. Maybe not quite as 'spread' out, but definitely as 'optioned.'
on his feeling he wouldn't be big part of offense here. He'd be huge. We need a straight up wr that can burn and he would be an ideal fit after having learned route running under the USC coaches. There is no doubt in my mind that Tate and our qbs could find him for the same number of receptions as MSU. Now ND under Kelly might be a different story because he's always used the pass to set up the run in his spread, so that might be his best fit.
Hard to say what I'd do as a USC sr. In his case, he knew just by the way he was recruited, things weren't quite right. So in that respect, I just might say fuck it and stay put. He's on the NDL radar already anway.
There is no doubt in my mind that Tate and our qbs could find him for the same number of receptions as MSU.
No doubt in your mind? Really?
Blair White had 70 catches for MSU, and BJ Cunningham had 48.
Our leading receiver, Roy Roundtree, had 32. Next best was 29 (Mathews) then 22 (Odoms).
There's no doubt in my mind that Ronald Johnson would not catch 70 balls at Michigan. Face it - he'd be better off going elsewhere or staying where he is than coming to Michigan.
...go again.
Roundtree did most of his damage in 4 games last year. I think we just haven't had a guy step up and be consistent enough for a whole season to catch 70 yet.
Having said that, 40-45 seems to be the upper limit looking back at the WVU days. There was one guy who approached 70 in 2007. Even guys at Florida have a tough time getting to 70.
Roundtree also played slot receiver when he caught those 32 passes.
Odoms played slot receiver and led the team in receptions (49) in 2008.
Yes, it's out of the realm of possibility* for an outside WR, which would be Johnson's position.
*Not impossible from a statistical standpoint, obviously, but about as likely as Brendan Gibbons kicking a 65 yard field goal this year.
Didn't he sign early the year after ROJO went to USC? I don't think he was very highly rated, but that would definately be a big factor if he is still there.
Nah, Corey Johnson was a non-qualifier out of HS (and I'm pretty sure MSU only offered him to try and lure Rojo). I think he ended up at a JUCO in Kansas.
He either never qualified or was removed from the Stat team, iirc. Either way, he doesn't play there now.
I hope we see major transfers from USC. I hate USC almost as much as OSU. If a team like Stanford or PSU had the success USC has had, I would still be a little jealous but I would respect them because they would have done it honestly. I have no respect for USC because they did it by cheating and almost got away with it. And the only thing that makes teams like USC even pause before cheating is the risk of severe penalties. If that means one or two of USC's top juniors and seniors end up transfering to MSU or ND, I can live with that.
Sorry to intrude upon your Haterade induced stupor, but you have a big problem here: NO FACTS.
Since you have no respect for USC because they cheat, how about providing a little proof? I've read the entire 67 page NCAA report, and other than an allegation of improperly hiring a special teams consultant, the USC football program was not found guilty of cheating.
Did Reggie Bush cheat? By all indications, yes - but Reggie Bush is not USC. How do the illicit actions of one player translate into a program that cheats? Guess if jealousy, delusion and ignorance are what one relies upon to draw conclusions, one reaches such an ill-informed result.
Think after four years of investigation that if the NCAA had found rampant cheating, it would have been documented in their report? Sorry, but it's just not there. Assuming you're not phonetically challenged, give it a read then post all the instances of the USC football program cheating. Could USC have done many things better in the oversight of the athletic programs? Certainly looks that way - but that's still not cheating.
Absolutely understandable for Michigan fans to have animosity toward USC; the on-field history between these two schools certainly justifies that. But if you're gonna call out USC for cheating, might want provide facts; pretty hard to respect someone who can't back up what he says.
Oh, and to the OP: per a highly credible source personally known to me and very well connected to the USC football program, Rojo is not going anywhere.
Dude, if you're looking for sympathy, you're in the wrong place. Michigan knows all too well that the actions of one individual reflect on the whole (Chris Webber), as it should. USC had no qualms about embracing Reggie Bush when he was scoring touchdowns and winning trophies; now that it is no longer convenient to associate with him, he's being shunned.
The fact that Pete Carroll and USC are claiming ignorance is admission that they did not have institutional control. Add to that the violations in the basketball program and in the tennis program and you have an athletic department rife with corruption.
Frankly, USC is getting off easy and the continued hubris spewing out of their administration and fan base only makes me wish the NCAA had come down harder than they did.
Since that reading thing doesn't appear to be working too well for you, let's try dumbing things down in hopes of finding some basis for understanding.
The allegation of Mr.Woodson was USC cheats; I simply asked him to support his assertion with facts, which as of now, remains unanswered. I'll gladly wait to see if he has the character and integrity to either support his allegations or acknowledge his error.
Since reading doesn't seem to be a strong suit of yours, no where did I say or even infer that USC was wholly innocent and didn't deserve some measure of punishment from the NCAA. The basketball situation to accept O J Mayo and then allow Rodney Guillory access to the USC hoops program is one of the all-time dumbest decisions any coach/athletic department ever made.
And, I'm certainly going to call you to task for concluding the USC athletic department is "rife with corruption." If you'll momentarily dispense with bias, ignorance and preconception and try that thinking thing, don't you believe that after four years of investigation, the NCAA would have prominently incorporated corruption, cheating and any other substantive findings of guit in their report? Instead, the NCAA strung together a piecemeal investigation involving basketball (which USC had self sanctioned and the NCAA accepted), one instance of an international tennis player making unauthorized calls home, and a highly circumstantial case reliant on the words of a convicted felon as the primary basis for penalizing the football program.
Should USC have been more vigilant with compliance? No argument here. Is Reggie Bush a selfish scumbag? Again, no argument here. But the expectation of USC knowing of events going on in a city 120 miles away, with such events cloaked in secrecy with willful intent to deceive is a standard that seems exceedingly hard to meet.
I'm not a Michigan fan and it is exceedingly obvious that you and others here loathe USC, and I can assure you that should I have been soliciting sympathy, it certainly wouldn't be here. I've merely challenged assertions made here to be substantiated using facts, reason, and thought; thus far no evidence whatsoever.
And one other thing: you and myriad others convinced of USC's "cheating" and "corruption" are going to be really po'ed when sanctions against the football program are reduced. While I'm not in a position to provide assurances or full disclosure, there is much more to come and the outcome far from final.
Would welcome - but certainly not expecting - a thoughtful response. Any dimwit can make outlandish, unsupported allegations; takes no thought and very little effort to do that. Just curious to see if anyone here can cogently back up what they say.
But there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence. The convicted felon you speak of corroborated his most important allegations with phone records and pictures, including a conversation with a coach who is still on your team(!) in which the coach was directly told that Bush was receiving extra benefits.
My reading and thinking skills are being insulted on the internet. Whatever am I to do?
...don't you believe that after four years of investigation, the NCAA would have prominently incorporated corruption, cheating and any other substantive findings of guit in their report?
Before I begin, let the record show that I have have no clue what the word "guit" means. Moving on.
This thought experiment of yours is constructed in a world far, far, away filled with wonderment and enchantment. Don't you believe that after his murder trial O.J Simpson, your boy, would have been convicted of double homicide? Yet he wasn't. Golly, I guess that reasonable doubt can be a bitch, huh?
Good thing that this is not a criminal investigation. The NCAA doesn't have to defeat reasonable doubt here. They felt there was enough evidence to support the punishment doled out. They are judge, jury, and executioner. Case closed.
If find it hilarious that you are coming here, of all random places, doing your breakdance of righteous indignation only to admit:
- The OJ Mayo violated the rules of amateurism.
- Tim Floyd, an agent of the USC athletic department, wantonly disregarded the rules of amateurism.
- USC failed to monitor and foster an atmosphere of compliance within the football program.
- Reggie Bush received improper benefits.
- The tennis player received improper benefits.
You then have the audacity to argue that the USC athletic department is not rife with corruption. I'm actually impressed by your level of detachment from reality. Well done.
You've already acknowledged that the athletic department at USC is a whore, now all you're doing is haggling over how many tricks it should lose out on while its on probation. If the problem is that the punishment is heretofore unprecedented, congratulations, USC is now the precedent for what happens when your program is rife with corruption but not given the death penalty. Add that to the list of USC athletic accomplishments.
For the record, I don't give a damn about USC. I know you probably can't fathom a mind where USC isn't the center of the universe but they outnumber minds where it is. If the NCAA backs down on this, I will not batt an eye; I really couldn't care less. That would merely reinforce the fact that the NCAA are paper lions with no real desire to oversee or regulate anything the really matters and are content with pursuing trivial violation while serious ones go unpunished.
Finally, any dimwit can be "not in a position to provide assurances or full disclosure" - you refer to that as making outlandish, unsupported allegations - go do that somewhere else. Or not. You're actually entertaining me so, by all means, dance dimwit, dance.
I appreciate diversity but this denial is out of place here. Thanks for the comeback and time.
I have seen this poster @TSB - and it is surprising how far denial can get you in some forums. I'm glad not to see that here.
What is TSB? Never heard of it, much less been there.
Just as predicted; didn't expect anything in the way of reasoned discussion or articulated thought, but thanks for going to such great lengths there MCalibur so as to leave no doubt.
I won't be back, at least not anytime soon, so enjoy your smug "victories" over whatever it is in your perception of this situation that assures you of the veracity of what you have concluded. You consider me to be in denial; I know you to be ill-informed.
As a parting shot, I will clearly state that this is far from over. Whether through reduction of sanctions via the NCAA appeals process or via the courts, the FINAL outcome on this is far from determined. Perhaps once this is FINALIZED, I'll stop by to check on the latest round of pissy comments.
Oh, and one last item: good luck with that Rich Rod thing and the NCAA. With MCalibur's sanctimonious assertions about the NCAA being wholly justified with the sanctions levied against USC, heaven help the school that actually has the audacity to substantively violate NCAA regulations.
That's it, I've got to get out to Cali to check out that west coast Rx weed. That ish must be great.
Using an ineligible player == cheating.
Reggie Bush 2004/05 == Ineligible.
USC used Reggie Bush in 2004 and 2005.
USC Cheated.
Not difficult to understand. I mean, you could also just, like, read the NCAA's report that outlines what USC did wrong (pay particular attention to RB coach Todd McNair, the most egregious cheater (outside of Bush)).
... it puts you in a class of one.
Per Merriam-Webster, cheating includes:
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>
Even USC does not dispute that they violated the rules. They are simply complaining that the penalties are too severe.
Got a friend at SC. says the football players have their own world. where else will they find that entitlement?
....in his eyes or in his Momma's eyes. Question is, will he and his family have to give USC back the money?
I think that Tate/Denard are going to be as good QBs in RR's system. They threw a lot of picks and had other freshman moments last year.
I think a better analysis of whether RoJo could flourish and catch 72 balls here would be a comparison to a RR offense WITHOUT a freshman QB.
Does anyone know how the academic side of these USC transfers will work? Three years of school and transferring seems strange.
Almost as strange as a minimum qualifier being accepted to relatively prestigious schools? Transfer credits aren't an issue when you have big-time football ability.
this is me me very skeptical :I
I agree with the skeptics - unless he sees himself benched next season for some reason, he is waaaaaaay better off staying put. He has one year left, he has Barkley to get him the ball, he has great access to good facilities, and so on.
Until more information comes out that makes this even remotely believable, I am with the skeptics.
Is it a pretty reliable source, or a reliable source? Because there's a big difference. We won't have to play USC this year anyway, so I'd rather he stays there.
Seriously. As much as I hate USC, I have no interest seeing ROJO at ND or MSU.
Hemingway & Stonum say: "so what to this thread!!!"
EDIT: Removed the response here and added it to OP.
- Rojo is an upperclassman, so going to a rebuilding program like ND doesn't fit.
- MSU runs a pro-style offense with a very good veteran arm and leader in Cousins.
- MSU is close to home (Muskegon).
However, MSU isn't winning a national title or going to the Rose Bowl, so I don't see how MSU gives him any advantage over staying at USC and having Barkley throw him balls in a pro-style system.
We must admit that a combination of factors is why M churned out NFL WRs:
- Highly visible, elite program attractive to recruits
- Always competing for national titles
- Pro-style offense
- NFL-caliber QBs to deliver the ball
- Great WR coach in Erik Campbell
Our current offense, while I really like it, doesn't feature a strong downfield passing game. The objective is to spread defenses out in order to run the ball. There is strong evidence that Rodriguez is a 65/35 to 70/30 run/pass ratio. The average college game yields around 70 offensive snaps, so even a 35% pass rate means at most 25 throws a game. Many of those throws will be play action passes and vertical seams, most of which go to the slot receivers. Other throws this type of spread likes to use are quick game, using bubble screens to the slots and hitch/slant/quick-out to the outside WRs.
I agree with Mangus: no outside WR will ever catch a lot of balls in the Rodriguez system. I actually think if Rojo wants a combination of the factors listed above for the Carr-era M teams, he should play in the slot for Oklahoma or Texas, or he should go to UNC or Miami.
Having said all this, if he is that talented, as a Wolverine he wouldn't have to catch a lot of balls to get NFL looks. TE Keith Jackson at Oklahoma during the wishbone years is a good example of that. Rojo would just have to make plays when he got his hands on the ball. Regardless of what type of offense it is, NFL scouts will be watching Michigan tape, and while they may say, "It's a shame they don't use this kid better," they'd still be saying, "This kid can play at the next level."
...coach. All you have to do is look at the results of NFL drafts and you'll see that there are few NFL teams that are fooled by players whose huge numbers were in large part racked up because of the scheme they play in. Stats aren't going to get you into the League. Evaluated technique and confirmed measurables will.
Maybe Saban can make some room...
I know Ryan Mallett had a good season last year at Arkansas, but what are the track records of transfers? I have no idea.
Anecdotally, I seem to recall a few transfers to MSU in the '80s and '90s from places like UCLA. One was a highly recruited QB who didn't pan out.
The issues would seem to be:
1. Learning a new scheme in your final year, under a new coach. That can't be an attractive proposition.
2. Fitting into a new group of players with a different vibe. If he's expecting to join a locker room and be "all that", he's probably mistaken.
3. Getting into a groove with the QB in only a few weeks of practice. Cousins has had an entire year to work with his current receivers. There could be a comfort level that would require some adjustment. I don't know whether its realistic to even expect 70 attempts sent his way, frankly.
As far as Rojo's pro career is concerned, wouldn't he be better off staying at USC? I don't know the statistics, but I would guess that USC has had far more players drafted than either MSU or ND.
Neither of these teams is a huge upgrade for him. Why would he move?
Also, question to Coach Steve Sharik: doesn't USC play a pro-set offense? Wouldn't that be a better way for Rojo to show his ability to NFL scouts?
I don't see how MSU gives him any advantage over staying at USC and having Barkley throw him balls in a pro-style system.
I think the answer to your question is: yes, staying at USC would be better than MSU or ND, however...
I actually think if Rojo wants a combination of the factors listed above for the Carr-era M teams, he should play in the slot for Oklahoma or Texas, or he should go to UNC or Miami.
Because of their appeal and how long it long it will take the NCAA to come back from that (in season or at the end of the season), isn't there a realistic possiblity that USC sanctions don't really go into affect until next year (2011)? If that is the case, there really is no point for Rojo to transfer.