Rodriguez vs. Beilein

Submitted by coachclen on December 1st, 2010 at 8:21 AM

NO! Not another "Let's fire these guys" post. 

However, last night while watching the Clemson game I got into a gentle argument with one of my friends regarding John Beilein. I made the comment that I really believed in him as a coach and despite last year's regression, I think that the program is headed in the right direction. He chastised me, saying that Beilein is quite similar to Rodriguez (with whom I quite frustrated with).

But, either way, with Rodriguez a bowl game away from completing his third season, putting he and Beilein almost at equal parts of the tenures (I do know an extra off season makes a big difference, but just for argument's sake) here at Michigan. I think it is a good time (and I'm sick of the Harbaugh consternation) to compare and contrast Rodriguez and Beilein and their successes/failures here at U of M. And rather than me pontificating my thoughts, I thought I'd throw it out to the Mgoboard and have a conversation with many. 


[Side Note] Over/under on the number of times "Beilein" gets misspelled in this thread: 50. (I'm taking the over)



December 1st, 2010 at 8:36 AM ^

I was just making a comparison as per the OP. Although, I'm not sure if D. Warren's $2000 signing bonus was worth forgoing his senior season. 

I should have said *had players go* not let, not the best choice of words...


December 1st, 2010 at 12:43 PM ^

I'm not certain Manny would have become any better had he stayed in this system another year. Also, he seems to be in a pretty ideal situation in Cleveland. He is making $473k this year to come off the bench and refine his skills on an NBA roster. 

I'm a big fan of Manny, but I really do believe he made the correct decision.


December 1st, 2010 at 8:28 AM ^

[Side Note] Over/under on the number of times "Beilein" gets misspelled in this thread: 50. (I'm taking the over)

That's assuming 50 people actually want to talk about this...again

Mitch Cumstein

December 1st, 2010 at 8:30 AM ^

Its much harder to go dancing than to make a bowl in my opinion.  Cupcakes make up a higher fraction of the season, and a .500 record won't do it in Bball.

Also, Michigan basketball is not Michigan football.  As Brandon said and I agree with, succeeding in basketball here is a lot harder than football given the recent history and the facilities. 

I personally was upset to see Amaker get fired, but I understand it.  Beilein is alright in my book, and I'm glad hes making adjustments in his schemes.  I still think we're going to get killed on the glass, but it looks like we're recruiting some size so maybe he realizes this is a problem and is rectifying it.  Beilein also doesn't have off the court bad press.  Not saying RR deserves a lot of the shit hes gotten, but its there.

Mitch Cumstein

December 1st, 2010 at 10:00 AM ^

I really thought he represented the University well, and I really liked the style of play when he was the coach.  Now I completely understand his being fired, let me make that clear. That being said, I thought that we were on the verge of breaking through, we had a couple years just on the outside of the bubble.  Really looking back, that loss to OSU where Simms blew the layup which cost us the game probably got him fired. With that win, we were probably dancing.


December 1st, 2010 at 10:05 AM ^

A .500 record can get a major conference team like Michigan into the NIT, though it would probably take one win over to do it.  The NIT is like the lower bowls, and the NCAA is like the better bowls.  Michigan football is on the NIT level this year, but may end up in a BCS bowl next year if they keep RR. 

If DB remains patient in the Michigan tradition, "leap year" may come a year early.

Nosce Te Ipsum

December 1st, 2010 at 10:18 AM ^

You're right. Bowl =/= Tourney. I absolutely love Beilen. Michigan hadn't been to the tourney since 1998 and he got them there in year two. I'm not sure what rankings people use but ESPN had Morris, Hardaway JR, and Smotrycz (sp) as top 100 players. Brundidge and Burke are top 100 for this years class as well and Robinson is top 100 for 2012. He is bringing in some serious talent and in a few years they're going to be amazing. OP, tell your friend he's wrong. Beilen rocks!


December 1st, 2010 at 8:36 AM ^

I don't really see the similarities.  I think that Rich Rod will and should get fired after the bowl game.  On the the other hand, I don't see Beilein ever getting fired.  I think he is a good coach and with the right players he can make long runs in the NCAA's.  Im not sure he can get those "right" players.  He hasn't yet.  There are some good looking freshman so hopefully they improve.  I don't think he can make us a top 15 team on a yearly basis.  He needs to recruit bigger and more athletic players to really compete with the upper teams in the Big Ten and country.   He is a good guy, and he will never break the rules so I see him being here as long as he wants. 


December 1st, 2010 at 9:08 AM ^

So you support Beilein because you think he will be successful with the right players, but you're not sure he will be able to get the right players? I like Beilein too, but your logic makes no sense to me.

I had to call you out because this

He is a good guy, and he will never break the rules

sounds like a ridiculous shot at Rich Rod.


December 1st, 2010 at 9:31 AM ^

It was a little shot at Rich Rod.  He had been breaking the rules since the beginning according to all accounts.  Beilein is actually on the rules committee.

Rich Rod has had 3 years to get the players and put in a system that works on offense and defense.  It just isn't working.  The football program is held to a higher standard.


December 1st, 2010 at 12:28 PM ^

I would say the offense only really struggled against MSU and OSU.  In the MSU game they had a few bad turnovers going into MSU's end zone, where Denard simply made poor throws.  We also (surprise!) missed a FG.  I don't know how that constitutes the offense not working.  The OSU game was bad, yes, and because of the complete inability to kick FGs, the offense went for it on 4th downs where a team with a halfway decent kicker might not have.  Again, not sure.  I don't think the fumbles have anything to do with the system.  Don't players in pro-style offenses also fumble?  Denard may have some issues with what arm he holds the ball when running, but that is correctable (but IMO should have been addressed by now).

Anyways, in the other B10 games this season against good teams, the offense scored more points than the opponent's defense was giving up on average going into that game:

- 28 against Iowa

- 31 against PSU

- 67 against Illinois

- 28 against Wisconsin


Those point totals, with a halfway decent defense, would normally be enough to win those games.  So, this offense, with improved execution and experience (specifically an UPPERCLASS QB entering his SECOND YEAR OF STARTING) going into 2011 should flip the fortunes of some or all of those losses.


December 1st, 2010 at 9:09 AM ^

So, while probably unlikely, let's say Michigan blows out their bowl opponent.  Let's say said opponent is a top-25 ranked team, perhaps a 10-2 outfit from the Big 12.  Coming off of a big bowl victory over a higher ranked team, Rich Rodriguez should be unequivocally fired?

Mitch Cumstein

December 1st, 2010 at 9:34 AM ^

"So people aren't allowed to rebut comments or posts they disagree with?" I'm not really sure what that has to do with what I said, but no I don't think that.  The post I replied to came out and said "RR should and will be fired after the bowl".  Within 5 minutes there were 3 posts ripping his post apart and several negs.  He has a low point total so I thought I'd point out to him why he got such an adverse response.  Not only did he say something negative about RR (which will almost always get you negged here), but also put it in a thread that didn't really ask for opinions on that specific matter (and that subject has been touchy here lately as I'm sure you know).  I wasn't trying to prevent anyone from responding to anything, just trying to give him a heads up.

Mitch Cumstein

December 1st, 2010 at 9:41 AM ^

I mean they didn't rip him that badly I guess, but all three posts seemed to take exception to what he said.  If I was taking a sarcastic shot, which I have before, I wouldn't have added the part about this not being the right thread for that conversation.  As you can see, b/c of that comment a mini-thread has started that has nothing to do with Beilein vs. Rich Rod b/c he threw in the RR firing and breaking rules comments.  My opinions are what they are, but I still respect the general idea of not hijacking threads with topics that have been discussed over and over in other threads. Granted, this topic was bound to turn into a RR job security thread.


December 1st, 2010 at 9:54 AM ^

I was actually worried and somewhat assumed that this would turn into "fire Rod" banter. Hoping otherwise. 

I just think it is interesting to compare peoples opinions because after three years, both have had their struggles and their successes and really have programs at the same stage (Young though talented, not a ton of depth) and people seem to often have contrasting opinions about each. 

Naturally, this stems from football having higher expectations, but it is just interesting to talk about and see reactions.


December 1st, 2010 at 10:09 AM ^

I take exception to things that I believe are logically incorrect or poorly assumed.  toomer18 has already made it up in his mind that RR will be fired after the bowl, because I guess he assumes that Michigan will got throttled by whomever they play.  So what happens if Michigan doesn't get throttled, and Lord save us all, actually lays a whuppin' down on a good team?  Immediate dismissal?  To me, it doesn't make sense, and that is why I replied.


December 1st, 2010 at 10:17 AM ^

It's not that we only want to hear that RR should be retained.  We don't.  Most people here are smart enough to understand the nuance of the argument.  It's just fantastically annoying that every thread is either started about it or turns into it.  WE GET IT. Lots of people want RR fired, and lots don't.  There are compelling reasons to fire him, and compelling reasons to retain him.  We've fleshed out both arguments 5 times over.  That is why people get negged, it has little to do with their opinion in most cases.


December 1st, 2010 at 9:20 AM ^

He had about ten minutes to put together his first recruiting class, which still yielded Douglass and Novak. Not great players, but solid contributors. In the 2009, 2010, and 2011 classes he's signed ten players, half of whom are 6'7" or bigger, and half of whom are on the ESPN top 100 list.


December 1st, 2010 at 8:38 AM ^

I think the difference between the two is Beilein is a strong fundamental type of coach.  His team may never be flashy, but they do not make a ton of mental mistakes as well.  His team will get better now that he has his kids in place.  This year will be growth and development, next year they will compete for the Big 10 championship.