The FannMan

December 5th, 2011 at 6:49 PM ^

It is beginnig to feel like history is repeating. 

I mean things do not seem to be going well there.  Arizona QBs transfering.  Kids (or at least Christian) at Pitt upset that he hired their coaching staff.  Rich talknig too much about the place he left.  I can't imagine that Arizona enjoys him talking about Michigan any more that we wanted to hear about WVU in 2008.  

Don't get me wrong.  I would like to see him be successful.  I also don't want to start the whole "what went wrong" conversation.  But, I think there is a concensus that he didn't handle the transition here that well.  I am worried that he is doing the same thing at Zona.  He needs to forget about us and worry about Arizona.


December 5th, 2011 at 7:42 PM ^

Agreed. I'm starting to think that RR was just a great offensive mind that got lucky with the WVU gig. He's proven to be a bad leader, stubborn, prone to criticizing his own players, and obviously he doesn't get along fantastically with his players. Compare this to Hoke, if you want.


December 6th, 2011 at 8:59 AM ^

Yeah, I was kind of worried about posting this and I would love to let sleeping dogs lie but his constant spouting off about his former gigs is really wearing thin and making it difficult for both sides to move on.

Dude continually speaks out of both sides of his mouth and then puts on the country bumpkin act to deflect criticism.

I am so much more happy with where we are now and the direction we appear to heading in under Hoke and Co.


December 5th, 2011 at 8:07 PM ^

And here I thought he would have learned from the last 3 years of PR disasters what to say and what NOT to say.

I am suddenly really glad he doesn't coach here any more. I'll still root for him at Zona, but I'm starting to reconsider it.  I understand why he's bitter...but damn man, move on. Continually referencing Michigan in any way does nobody any good. Talk about the future, not the past. Sheesh. 


December 5th, 2011 at 9:27 PM ^

Bring the high character TP, he should have been on Mallett's doorstep the minute he got to Ann Arbor. Probably wouldn't have worked, but if he knew it was such a big problem his time might have been better spent doing that than arrogantly saying "I already recruited him twice" as you're making goo-goo eyes at the guy who'd beat you the next 3 years.
<br>Between a QB and DC, that he acts like he knows were a problem, he has a tendency to prioritize poorly.
<br>He's making it harder to feel sorry for him every time he opens his mouth.


December 6th, 2011 at 8:28 AM ^

RR made his fair share of large mistakes (Gerg) and continues to do so re: Gibson.

But the LAST thing I want in a head coach is the propensity to ass-kiss an imature drug-addled primadonna like Ryan Mallet.

for all we know Coach Carr "breifed" him on Mallet and RR decided to pass.

or, you could take the guy at his word in that he made two attempts to get Mallet to stay but soon realized that the kid was out the door no matter what.

Most QBs don't react well to coaching changes, offenses tend to revolve around them you know.  It's one more reason to respect Denard's work ethic & attitude.


December 6th, 2011 at 10:13 AM ^

Denard Robinson.

EVERYONE thought he was gone.  And he stayed because the nw coach was able to convince him that he would work the offense around Denard's talents.  I very muich doubt that RR promised Mallet that he would run a pro-style offense for the rest of Mallet's tenure. 


December 6th, 2011 at 11:17 AM ^

Remember though, nobody promised Denard anything, either. According to Bacon, Denard offered to switch positions in order to stay on the field. Credit goes to Borges (maybe Hoke, too?) for finding ways to keep Denard at his position, but it's not like they made any great overtures to convince Denard to stay.

If Mallet had that determination to stay on the team, RR would have run his Shaun King offense, and nobody is going to convince me otherwise.


December 6th, 2011 at 12:12 PM ^

according to Denards own words, he stayed because he consideres this team his family.

I'm sure coach Hoke made that decision much easier due to his integrity AND his flexibility,
but it wasn't the only reason.

I'm not sure what you mean about RR & Mallet?  Are you suggesting that the "Godfather of the spread"  who was hired to bring Michigan out of the dark ages was going to base his offense entirely around the statue of Ryan Mallet?  I'm fairly confident that if Mallet had stayed he wouldn't have just had him run zone reads all day.

Once Mallet left and Pryor fell through (thankfully) RR was left with an imoble Threet and a walk-on Sheridan.  He stated at the start of the 2008 season that the offense was going to struggle no matter what they ran, so he might as well get the spread up & running ASAP.

Each head coach faced entirely different circumstances (and we'll never really know exactly how much of their own making).

I can't imagine anyone doing much better than Brady Hoke with what he inherited this year, but I think WHAT he inherited (a singular athlete, senior leadership, etc) partly made his job in 2011 easier than RichRod's was in 2008.


December 6th, 2011 at 1:06 PM ^

But what is the evidence that RR was "hired to bring Michigan out of the dark ages"? I know there were people in the broader community and especially on this board that felt that way, but they weren't involved in the hiring process.

Was there anyone that was involved in that process that had this point of view? Certainly not Lloyd Carr, who apparently was the first to reach out to Rodriguez.

We fell into the spread because there weren't a lot of options at the time. There doesn't seem to have been a deliberate choice to go that route. They were looking for a good coach and the best guy available happened to be a spread guru.


December 5th, 2011 at 11:59 PM ^

What are they putting in the water at these press conferences that has the new coach talking about his last job? The fans at your new school don't care about that crap. Nobody at Ohio wanted to hear Urban talk about how Florida was his dream job (though most of them had probably fallen asleep by that point). Nobody at Arizona cares about RR's excuses for his failures at Michigan.

It's a hell of a way to drum up enthusiasm....


December 5th, 2011 at 6:26 PM ^

If Arizona has respectable pass defense numbers in the next few years, will people around here shut up about Gibson?

Not likely.


December 5th, 2011 at 6:46 PM ^

Oh. Hi.

You doing some Lloyd Loyalist bidding there? Insinuating that Lloyd didn't get a fair shake from people who liked or sympathized with RR? Cool. Nice to have ya.

Look around. No one here LIKES Gibson or the fact that RR employed him. It is cronyism, even if that word hasn't been used yet. Hell, I am by default his biggest defender and all I've said is that evidence is not sufficient that he is evil incarnate simply because those of us who don't attend practices and film sessions can't truly measure the worth of a position coach. He may very well suck hard, but people on this forum wouldn't be the people to know.

Now, Lloyd made his cronies actual coordinators. We have statistical evidence for their units that those guys sucked. Getcha boy!


Gorgeous Borges

December 5th, 2011 at 7:41 PM ^

When we hired Brady Hoke Brian said it was croneyism. And it was. Sweet, sweet, Ohio- beating Greg-Mattison-hiring Denard-keeping BCS-bowl-getting Nebraska-pounding dood-steeling Greg-Mattison-hiring Romer-getting croneyism. Thank God for croneyism.

EDIT: I just noticed that Greg-Mattison-hiring is in there twice. Damn right it is.


December 5th, 2011 at 8:22 PM ^

Then what about Brian and his extensive UFR analysis? He came to the conclusion that Gibson sucks by watching defensive replays of RR's 3 years here, and now coupled with the drastic turnaround this year. But I guess that sort of fine-toothed analysis isn't so-called "evidence" but rather constitutes "cronyism". 

BTW, isn't RR hiring all his friends again at Arizona regardless of what seems to be evidence to me (but not to you) cronyism too?


December 6th, 2011 at 1:38 AM ^

Brian is a fan. Just because he spends a lot of time watching and re-watching the games does not mean he can adequately assess blame when he doesn't know exactly what Michigan's method of communication was and how responsibilities on the coaching staff were delegated.


December 6th, 2011 at 1:57 AM ^

"You doing some Lloyd Loyalist bidding there?"

No. Just asking a question that you didn't care to answer.

"Insinuating that Lloyd didn't get a fair shake from people who liked or sympathized with RR?"

No, and never have. Lloyd got a perfectly fair shake. He was allowed to coach the greatest program in the land for 12 years. He gradually lost support and didn't do enough to make everyone happy. He lost to Appalachian State, and everyone, including me, knew if was his time to leave. He left. The new coach lost a lot.

"It is cronyism, even if that word hasn't been used yet."

Well, that's not much of a cry, but I'll allow it. Why doesn't it bother you that he is hiring a bad coach? It bothered some people that we even considered hiring Hoke, and he's a good coach.

"Now, Lloyd made his cronies actual coordinators. We have statistical evidence for their units that those guys sucked."

Yes, like when he made Jim Herrmann coordinator of the world-beating '97 defense. He promptly won the Frank Broyles award for best assistant coach. Or like when he replaced Herrmann with Ron English, who presided over the soul-destroying 06 defense.

You should not be allowed to just make stuff up. And yet you still do.


December 5th, 2011 at 6:34 PM ^

No doubt he will get his guy Dusty there, along with probably Barwis as well and who knows who else... "get the old band back together"... though I do question assistants that want to hitch their wagon to one HC... Magee could probably get a gig as a spread OC somewhere...Dews probably could find a decent WR coach gig...but Gibson probably doesnt have much of a choice and will be hitched to RR as long as he can


December 5th, 2011 at 6:54 PM ^

I fail to see anything that Barwis did that another S&C coach couldn't have done as well. I will probably be negbanged to hell and back, but all this talk about RR and "his guys" is starting to get old. I wish the players who left the program well, but beyond that, I really don't care.  Ditto for the coaches.

When Arizona starts kicking the shit out of USC and Oregon on a regular basis, I will start paying attention. Until then, color me a skeptic.


December 6th, 2011 at 2:07 AM ^

I actually think Barwis did some harm.

This staff has talked, since day 1, about how the team needs to get stronger. That seems to be a direct indictment of Barwis's methods.

And, I remember Barwis saying something along the lines of, "If you are doing the bench press motion on the field, you are probably on your back pushing the guy off you." This is crazy, considering 5 offensive lineman begin every play essentially bench pressing 4-5 defensive players. Every play. And I remember how I was shocked about how that comment went unremarked upon back then.

And, when Barwis came in, there was a lot of talk about how they would be in better shape than old Michigan teams, despite the fact that RR's teams had a horrible habit of blowing games in the 2nd half and actually getting worse as the season progressed. 

I don't have anything against Barwis. Unlike the football coaching staff, his results aren't easy to spot. But the new staff seems to disagree with him, and we know how Gittleson felt about him.


December 6th, 2011 at 8:33 PM ^

Watching the teams fielded during RR's tenure, I felt as though Barwis' methods worked okay for the skill positions and the secondary. However, it seemed as though Barwis' methods also cut too much mass and strength from our lines on both sides of the ball.

After seeing the athletes that Coach Wellman has put on the field this past season, I think he has a much better grasp of the type of training that B1G linemen require. I never felt as though our lines were significantly outmuscled, though they were outquicked by MSU's front 7, partially due to their talent level, and partially due to their anticipation of M's snap count.

I am also thankful that Coach Wellman seems to have maintained our skill players' speed and quickness while possibly enhancing their strength a bit. I also enjoy his anonymity because for me Barwis had lapsed into the realm of self-parody a while ago.