Honker Burger

May 15th, 2018 at 4:36 PM ^

Correct, they changed this as you said.

I remember when Jhonny Peralta was suspended 50 games in 2013, the Tigers had the option and decided to add him to the postseason roster. I think the change where he is automatically ineligible for postseason play is for the better.

Seems like they should also change the rule to where your suspension only starts after you are eligble to play (eg. not on the DL, etc.).


May 16th, 2018 at 2:56 PM ^

Takes 10 seconds to google this.

In 1985 at the age of 44, Rose had an OBP of .395 (in over 500 plate appearances).  He was FOURTH in the entire NL in OBP.   For the advanced stats people, his offensive WAR was 1.3, though his defense was considered sub-par.

Bagging on a 44 year old who finished 4th in the league in OBP is pretty dumb IMO.  I'm not a Pete Rose fan, but anyone who can finish top 10 in anything useful at age 44 is a special player. 



May 15th, 2018 at 4:53 PM ^

He didn't have any seasons with a negative WAR until 1980.  By which point he was age 39.

If, in an alternate Universe where Rose retired after 1979 at age 38, he would have retired as a player with:

(1) a career WAR of over 80.0 (around 40th all-time in MLB),

(2) 3372 career hits,

(3) 1180 career walks (Rose wasn't just a good hitter for average, he also get on base via the walk - we know now that walks were under-valued in Rose's era),

(4) 612 career doubles (14th all-time in MLB, he wasn't just singles) and

(5) 154 career Home Runs (not a super-slugger but he had some slugging ability).

That all on those legendary Big Red Machine teams, of course.

Rose was not a good baseball player in the 1980s.  That is true.  The Reds should have released him and Rose's presence is partially responsible for the Reds being a bad MLB team in the front half of the 1980s.  And I also can't stand Rose as a person.  But his career from 1963-1979 is absolutely Hall of Fame worthy (if it weren't for all that gambling stuff).  


May 15th, 2018 at 4:57 PM ^

I would say Rose became a distinct liability around 1981, and for certain should have retired after posting a lovely 0 HRs in 486 plate appearances that year.

It is mind boggling that he was kept on MLB rosters for another five seasons beyond that which had him get 550 hits in close to 3,000 PAs and hit 5 HRs.

To me, his pursuit of the record trashed the overall value of his career. Yeah he was great for 17 seasons - really great. However, if you combine those 17 years with 7 years of a total liability - that makes him from an all time great to slightly above average in my book.

CRISPed in the DIAG

May 15th, 2018 at 2:58 PM ^

Sorry, but Pete Rose was one of baseball's pioneers when it came to steroids (even though he didn't hit HR's). The guy who got him busted for gambling on baseball was a steroid dealer. Rose was a bigtime "greenie" (speed) guy as well. 

Now I'll duck because folks love them some Charlie Hustle and hate hearing bad things about him.


May 16th, 2018 at 5:27 AM ^

Many years ago I went to Tigers' Fantasy Camp. One night a few of us were sitting in the bar talking to one of the former Tigers, and the subject of Rose's suspension came up. The ex-Tiger (whose name I won't say, but everyone would know it) told us that in every MLB locker room is a sign that covers Rule 21 - Misconduct. Section d, paragraph 2 reads:

"Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permenantly ineligible."

That's the rule, in black-and-white and three different languages. Every club makes sure every player knows it when he first comes up.

Ex-Tiger said that Pete's problem (other than his gambling, which was well-known throughout the league) was that he didn't follow the rules - he looked for ways to get around them. The rules didn't apply to Charlie Hustler. (His name, not mine.)