Rival related rant
September 4th, 2014 at 2:42 PM ^
September 4th, 2014 at 6:29 PM ^
Except that MSU has no ultimate desire other than the Rose Bowl. Since winning the Big Ten is the direct path there (well it was before the playoff) they don't care about how strong the conference is.
Every hardcore MSU fan I have ever met has told me they would rather go to the Rose Bowl than the national championship game.
As much as I love the Rose Bowl and the Big Ten championship I have higher ultimate goals for Michigan than that and understand that having a strong conference makes it more likely that Michigan will get in.
September 4th, 2014 at 8:19 PM ^
September 4th, 2014 at 8:50 PM ^
And how many nattys did Bo win? Because he considered a Rose Bowl appearance as a success. His teams didn't shoot for the ultimate prize.
September 4th, 2014 at 9:26 PM ^
Ha! That's funny. Do you really think Bo lost games (and thus the mythical national championship) in order to win the Big Ten? That's the only inference I can gain from your argument that Bo didn't win a national championship because his goal was to win the Big Ten and the Rose Bowl.
September 5th, 2014 at 12:18 AM ^
When Bo first made that statement teams from the Big Ten had only ONE possible goal, win the Big Ten and play in the Rose Bowl unless MSU voted against you. B10 teams weren't allowed to go to any post season bowl unless they won the B10. So please, remember the context of what was said and when it was said.
Next, had Michigan beat Stanford in the 1972 RB without question Michigan would have been the MNC for the 1971 season. As it was, Michigan fell one point short of a tie. 1976 Season, if Michigan beats USC in the RB, there was a good chance for another MNC for Michigan. In 1985 the loss to Iowa prevented Michigan from playing in the RB and likely for the MNC. In 1986 If Michigan had beat ASU in the Rose Bowl another MNC might have been a possiblity. Losing to USC in the 1990 RB prevented yet another quite possible MNC.
So you see, winning the B10 all during Bo's tenure as HC was a must for consideration at the national level. You can also bet your bottom dollar that Bo had every intention of his team winning the game in Pasadena once they got there. Michigan had plenty of chances for the MNC during those twenty years, that they didn't win it all wasn't because they focused on winning the conference, winning the conference is what put them in a position to win it all.
September 4th, 2014 at 8:55 PM ^
Exactly, I revel in the schadenfreude that comes with every Sparty loss. I remember in the past when Sparty would lose to awful teams how I just laughed at their fans' discomfort. If we had lost in the Horror II, do any of you think that the Sparty fans would be thinking ... "oh this is going to ruin the consideration of our strength of schedule.."? No they would play us and they would try to pound us to break our spirit.
We need to have faith in our program and team and let them be the captains of their own destiny. Instead of hoping for Sparty and other rivals to help us out.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:09 PM ^
I might have rooted for msu in the past in a game like this, but their general douchebaggery lately makes me want to root for Oregon.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:20 PM ^
At one point they were the lovable losers you wanted to see beat OSU or ND so you could enjoy the lolz but now they are moving towards the head of the table and in no way is that good for us. Does anyone think Alabama roots for Auburn because they are in the SEC? No, they would rather poison one another...that is a health rivalry if you ask me.
September 4th, 2014 at 7:47 PM ^
No, they would rather poison one another... that is a healthy rivalry if you ask me.
I hope you're not saying that this:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/justice/alabama-auburn-trees-plea/
is part of a healthy rivalry. Particularly since there is nothing about the above story that is in the slightest bit healthy.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:33 PM ^
I am with Ken. I also think the perception of MSU is very different from our fan base out of state versus those of us around Spartans daily in state. There has been almost nothing to say to them for nearly 6 years in terms of football outside of the lame "see you next year".
Look defenses win championships. I think MSU's defense last year was better than it will be this year (although i still think that defense will be top 12-15 this year) and they had a Tressel team ala 2002 built to win, great defense, ball control offense, a QB who did enough. Now they have a QB who is pretty damn good, and a pretty darn good defense. Run game maybe took a step back. But all it takes is 2 stifling performances in the playoffs by a defense and you are NCs. Only a few schools have that sort of defense and MSU could do that for 2 games so I dont want them anywhere near the playoffs.
It's all well and cute if a 9-3 MSU beat Oregon in a bowl while we were 4-2 versus MSU in the past 6. This is not that time. MSU's schedule is built for a big run this year with all their tough games at home save for Oregon - go root for them next year when Oregon visits EL and MSU has to go to play in Ann Arbor and Columbus.
Last point - no matter what they say, there is no way a Spartan would EVER root for Michigan to beat Oregon if the shoe was on the other foot. These are people who would root for a police officer to pull over anyone with a UM license plate.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:41 PM ^
Thats why its hard to start a coherent thread while angry. If they get in the playoff they can win it and if that happens it is absolutely turrible for Michigan. Since we are all Michigan fans this seems like a no brainer: they hate us, we hate them but do it in a more polished way. Their schedule is stacked for them except this game. I would love for Michigan to knock MSU down a peg themselves but if that doesn't happen we need someone else to help, otherwise this will be a serious topic of conversation come December.
September 4th, 2014 at 9:52 PM ^
Nothing "more polished" about arguing that we should hope State loses because that's what they'd do to us if they were in our shoes.
We're better than that - or so we say.
September 5th, 2014 at 12:20 AM ^
conceded the October 25th game to Sparty, well done. Well, done.
September 4th, 2014 at 8:02 PM ^
penciled in the October 25th game as a Michigan loss?
September 4th, 2014 at 4:43 PM ^
Couldn't agree more. Maybe a decade ago it was a gentlemen’s agreement type of world but it is an arms race in terms of recruiting and exposure now. I hope they get humiliated on national television. I hope this game is when we look back ten years from now and recognize it as the moment our friends in East Lansing slid back into mediocrity. Where they belong.
September 4th, 2014 at 11:32 PM ^
September 4th, 2014 at 2:10 PM ^
Here are my reasons for rooting for MSU this weekend:
1. It's important for the league to make a good showing out-of-conference because strength of schedule is important. If the B1G is perceived as a weak conference, that hurts Michigan's strength of schedule, should Michigan somehow make it to playoff consideration.
2. For some strange reason, while I know intellectually that Michigan-MSU games are rivalry games, emotionally I don't really consider MSU a rival. I tend not to worry about them nearly as much as OSU.
3. I like it when the B1G team wins out-of-conference games. Why should I root for Oregon, of all teams, to beat a B1G team?
4. On the other hand, if MSU manages to lose, I still get to enjoy the MSU tears.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:10 PM ^
is absolutely important. I almost always root for BIG teams when they are playing OOC. Massblue is right in that even IF we ran the table, I don't think we'd get into the playoff because the conference is down. Regardless of rivalries, good teams make us and the conference better. It helps recruiting, increases revenue and its just more fun to play in a conference where a home schedule sans MSU and OSU can still be a good one.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:10 PM ^
If Michigan goes undefeated, they will make the playoff. I want Sparty to lose because they are Sparty. Besides, if they put on a decent show but lose on the road to a team universally projected to make the playoff, it's not going to reflect badly upon the Big Ten.
I want to see Oregon win the game in the last ten seconds so that it deflates Sparty. A blowout would motivate them and give them an opportunity to do what they do best: play the "us against the world" card.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:50 PM ^
if Michigan goes undefeated, but the 4 spots are:
1) SEC champion (say Bama)
2) Pac Champion (say Oregon)
3) Acc Champion (say FSU)
4) ... (Big 12 Champ, undefeated mid major, who knocked off a Top 10 team, 1 loss SEC team, especially if it were like last year and Alabama loses on a fluke play, undefeated ND team, not this year, since this scenario has Michigan going undefeated).
What about a 1 loss Michigan team (say we lose to ND or MSU, but win the B1G Championship game. Would Michigan be selected, with 1 loss if the entire conference loses marquee non-conference matchups? I don't think so. Why not the Big 12 or ACC champ?
September 4th, 2014 at 3:32 PM ^
September 4th, 2014 at 2:11 PM ^
I normally take great pleasure in MSU losing, but this week, they are playing one of the sleaziest programs in CFB, and so I am rooting for Sparty.
OSU - I always, always want them to lose (same with ND).
GO BLUE!
September 4th, 2014 at 2:12 PM ^
I'd much rather have Michigan ruin the MSU hype train than Oregon.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:55 PM ^
I would rather that both do it and that it results in an MSU train wreck.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:14 PM ^
How can you root against MSU this weekend? Do you care enough about them to have a rooting interest in their games?
I don't really root for our rivals, but I'm not obsessed with them enough to go root against them either. Plus, aren't our games on at the same time this week? No need to watch them play.
September 4th, 2014 at 3:05 PM ^
My thoughts exactly. I'm indifferent about MSU games unless they are playing UM.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:15 PM ^
I have lived in Alabama for the last 20 years and can't stand SEC homerism. People down here literally root for every SEC team as long as there not playing their team. I used to root for every Big Ten team to lose by fifty, but now find myself rooting for the Big Ten to beat the SEC. Except Ohio, fuck them.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:16 PM ^
you saying you won't under any circumstance root for Sparty because Michigan State, or are you looking to be convinced why in certain circumstances, doing so won't offend you to a degree that your life's values are altered even momentarily? Big stage, big choice, big quandary.
My best advice: Don't watch, don't care, and think about it another day.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:25 PM ^
Because I can't not. I will root for MSU against ND or OSU if they suck and either ND or OSU doesn't, otherwise it is unacceptable. Any preference regarding the combination of those teams can be shuffled depending on what Michigan needs.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:19 PM ^
(Keep in mind that whomever roots for a team has no bearing on the outcome).
On one hand, Michigan needs the conference to be stronger. That way, a 1 loss B1G Champion Michigan team (maybe even undefeated) is sure to go to play in the Final 4. We need the B1G to win out of conference games, especially against the big boys (LSU, Oregon). That way, when Michigan beats MSU, our claim to going to the Final 4 as a 1 loss team is strengthened.
On the other hand, a MSU win (combined with their Rose Bowl last year) really strengthens their program and probably influences some recruits who may have choosen Michigan instead.
I think it's more important that the conference appears stronger come voting time. Either way, Michigan needs to beat State for this to mean anything to us.
September 4th, 2014 at 3:02 PM ^
That doesn't mean I want that strength to built on the record or reputation of MSU. I'm happy to root for them to pull a big OOC upset when they suck. This is a big year for MSU. They've got their highest preseason ranking in about 50 years. Like it or not, they are becoming a big rival in recruiting. I'd much rather take the very, very small chance that their losing to Oregon hurts us than see them win a big game this season.
September 4th, 2014 at 9:58 PM ^
If State wins, then loses to Michigan, it is Michigan that beats the big team in the big-time game and gets the recruits nationally to notice. If State loses, then there is little buzz for the Michigan-MU game and recruits don't even notice when Michigan wins.
If Michigan loses to State, it won't matter whether State beat Oregon or not.
September 5th, 2014 at 12:47 AM ^
MSU should never, ever, ever, ever be our big game. The idea that Michigan fans should want MSU to be a powerhouse program just so our games against them look better is crazy, imo. Do you really believe that recruits will only be interested in us if we beat an undefeated MSU? If we lose again to MSU, I sure as hell don't want them having a great season too. Yes, it does matter when you're talking about a team that we want to consistently beat in recruiting battles.
September 5th, 2014 at 6:35 AM ^
I am guessing that you haven't thought through that post. I never said anything about wanting "MSU to be a powerhouse program" - you said that. I said that the Michigan-MSU game would be a big game if MSU beats Oregon and is undefeated when Michigan arrives. That would be a marquee game and, yes, I think it would bring Michigan a lot more benefit to win a marquee national game than one shown only on BTN. Crazy as that sounds, I do, in fact, believe it.
State has beaten Michigan like a drum for several years, and local recruiting has survived. What has been less effective is national recruiting, where MSU doesn't play.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:22 PM ^
Period.
Then again, I realize that whom I root for or against has no implication for what actually occurs, so is just for my mental health. Realizing that, I don't care for whom other people root. It does not matter.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:26 PM ^
I'm rooting for an Oregon beatdown or an MSU close win. That way I either get to see a rival destroyed or a good SOS win for the B1G.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:28 PM ^
an Oregon loss or an MSU loss.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:29 PM ^
brother
September 4th, 2014 at 2:29 PM ^
I'd much rather beat an undefeated Sparty than a one-loss Sparty. If Oregon were to slaughter Michigan State, their fans could point to weak points that have already been exposed and make excuses should Michigan beat them. I'd much rather take down an undefeated State team whose fans come into the game cocky as hell, and leave with their heads hanging.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:30 PM ^
I'm rooting for delicious piping hot tacos to fall from the sky and fill up my belly.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:43 PM ^
September 4th, 2014 at 4:04 PM ^
... I second the notion of tacos falling from the sky.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:30 PM ^
I dont root for MSU against anyone except OSU and possibly Notre Dame depending on who needs to lose to make Michigan look better by whatever metric I have decided to apply in my head.
So in your head does it look better for UM to beat a MSU team that beat Oregon, or lost to Oregon?
September 4th, 2014 at 2:45 PM ^
Of the other three (rival) programs. Whatever combination of wins/losses needs to transpire for that to happen is ideal for me, that is my point.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:53 PM ^
If we're just talking rivalry games, I agree, just root for whatever makes UM look better. However, I think you should root for sparty this week. Honestly though, I don't think they have a chance. I've never put money on a game before, but I'm thinking about doing it for this one. Going to have a few beers Saturday morning and then decide.
September 4th, 2014 at 5:06 PM ^
Why don't you decide...before you have those beers.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:34 PM ^
My issue with rooting for them in non-Michigan games is that you are essentially rooting for MSU to go 11-1 every year, and as their fans have shown countless times during the Dantonio Era, they are fucking annoying when anything good happens to them.
So no, I will not be rooting for State or Oregon, but I will be amused by an Oregon win.
September 4th, 2014 at 8:40 PM ^
Why would I root for MSU to beat Maryland? We play both. People are only tempted to root for State because it's non-conference and it's against a highly-ranked team.
September 4th, 2014 at 2:35 PM ^
It's pretty simple. If Wisconsin beats LSU, Michigan beats Notre Dame, Ohio State beats Virginia Tech, Michigan State beats Oregon, Nebraska beats Miami, Penn State beats UCF, etc. it validates the conference. If the B1G loses all the spotlight nonconference matchups, then the whole conference suffers. Perception effects TV ratings, recruiting, bowl assignments, and SEC douchebaggery.
Another bonus is that you can root against the rivals in all their B1G games with added fervor. If Sparty beats Oregon, it'll be a blast rooting against them. They can stumble to 8-4, but still be a team that beat Oregon, elevating the B1G teams that beat them.
In the end, all of us just want 15-0. That would be cool-ish. But to be a little more realistic, 10-2 would still be really fun.