RichRod's lasting Michigan legacy--the APR
Going forward I have a serious concern that RichRod may have crippled Michigan football for years to come. To be blunt, his NCAA academic progress rate bordered on horrible.
2010 numbers are not out yet, but given what we know happened with academics and the team this year I am fairly worried that things got worse.
2009 report link in PDF: http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2009/418_2009_apr.pdf
Football, as of June, had an 897. Not only are we facing contermpoeneous penalties, but based on his tending we may be facing historic penalties.
We know Tate failed and is likely to leave the school. If Michigan did not improve over 900 for 2010 and he is counted as leaving after a failure we face a loss of 10 percent of program scholarships.
We already have gotten our warning letter, which means even if Tate is not counted as leaving school after a failure, we will still lose scholarships and practice time if RichRod did not get us back over 900.
If the trend is not corrected next season we lose post season play.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:32 AM ^
We know Tate failed and is likely to leave the school.Wait, we know he's likely leaving?
January 9th, 2011 at 9:35 AM ^
We went from "future uncertain" (probable if you're on shaky academic ground at UMich, athlete or not), to "likely leaving"? When did that status change?
January 9th, 2011 at 9:38 AM ^
That was a lot of if's used in your writing.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:44 AM ^
January 9th, 2011 at 9:51 AM ^
That was a lot of if's used in your writing.
Yes, because the program doesn't comment on these things and the sports media is too busy to dig into the facts here. I hope I am wrong, not just because of the effect on the program but because it would make Michigan a laughingstock in the area where we are unquestionably and have always been the leaders and best, in academics.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:16 AM ^
Am I the only one who doesn't know what contermpoeneous means?
"Football, as of June, had an 897. Not only are we facing contermpoeneous penalties, but based on his tending we may be facing historic penalties."
January 9th, 2011 at 10:20 AM ^
when small-minded people try to grapple with complex issues.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:51 AM ^
But I think you are wrong. I don't think that our APR is, or would be, in serious jeopardy if Rich Rodriguez had remained, and had more years like his student-athletes had in the 2009-10 academic years especially. The 200-09 transfer/hangover APR period hurt us, but there's no reason to think that Rich Rodriguez was taking us down a direct path to APR failure.
And, I'd suggest that if we do face any future APR jeopardy (I think we won't), a large part might be the firing, not the retention of Rich Rodriguez.
Your point appears to be, to try to smear Rich Rodriguez for where we are on APR; here is Brian Cook, addressing the issue:
http://mgoblog.com/content/academic-progress-rate-out-ugly-expected
January 9th, 2011 at 10:54 AM ^
Yes. Blaming RR is easy because he's gone, but some of the blame certainly needs to be placed on the AD (pick one or both). Two coaching changes in a 4 year period, especially ones that bring to light serious personnel discrepancies with regard to "the system" are much more at fault as far as transfers are concerned.
But DB wants long term success, so who are we to waiver from our 100% support of him when he shoots himself in the foot in the short term. ::rolls eyes:: (How the RR firing fits into that long-term/short-term logic is beyond me, btw...).
January 9th, 2011 at 11:12 AM ^
The OP is right. We will lose scholarships, it's a done deal.
Vlad Emillion, Justin Turner, Austin White, Anthony Lolata. If Tate leaves or not does not matter, the fact is he is ineligable and already damaged Michigan's APR.
We needed to have a 950+ APR year to avoid being penalized, we have no chance of reaching that.
January 9th, 2011 at 2:15 PM ^
Transfers and academic ineligibility both count. If a player transfers, you take a hit. If a player fails academics, you take a hit. If a failing player transfers, you take a double hit.
It matters if Tate transfers. Read the post by Brian that Section 1 links above. It points out that alot of the problem during RR's tenure comes from LC's players transferring after RR came in. Guess what? If a lot of players transfer when the new coach comes in Michigan takes a big hit.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:46 AM ^
This is yet another bullshit NCAA rule. Young athletes transferring should not count against you. Only those who fail out should, and Tate has yet to officially do that.
January 9th, 2011 at 12:37 PM ^
The only Forcier who shows up in the online student directory is Jason, listed as an undergrad. And he transferred. Maybe Tate opted out of the directory publishing his info. Even others who transferred are still in there.
January 9th, 2011 at 1:02 PM ^
The rule is well-intentioned. The NCAA wants to encourage teams to win with players that stay in school four years. This is one way to get back at schools like Alabama that massively oversign. Really, something is amiss when a school has a huge number of players transferring out. I don't think anyone - even RR himself - would agree that the number of transfers we've experienced over the past three years is normal. We've got to get that transfer rate down if we want to be a powerhouse again.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:52 AM ^
Let me see if I am correctly following the logic of the OP...
1. We had borderline APR concerns in the past two years
2. Tate was declared academically ineligiblefor the Gator Bowl
A . Which means Tate will leave school
3. Because of Tate's issues the entire program has APR issues
4. We will face sanctions and punishments of biblical proportion
A. Perhaps including a ban on bowl game appearances
5. The sky has fallen
Yup....I can sure see how 1+1+1+1 = 632,475,212.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:55 AM ^
January 9th, 2011 at 10:13 AM ^
It's not 1 + 1 + 1 + 1. When the NCAA imposes "contermpoeneous penalties" they multiply, so the actual formula is 1 * 1 * 1 * 1 = 632,475,212.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:38 AM ^
Ahhhhhh.....you are correct sir! I now see the folly in my and the OP's calculations. I had originally thought it was 1/1/1/1=632,475,212 and changed my formula but it is clear to me it is multiplication, not division or addition that leads to the obvious conclusions he reached.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:12 AM ^
And you'll observe how numbers will build up so much faster when you multiply rather than simply add. Watching the totals rocket can make one's head asplode.
January 9th, 2011 at 12:53 PM ^
It seems people forgot about the part where you divide the number of violations by zero, and then a great chasm opens up at State and Hoover.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:37 AM ^
Quick, someone alert Brian of this thread. I'm hoping to see, "contermpoeneous penalties" join "unverified voracity" as a weekly feature of the Blog.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
So is that Michigan's new New Math?
January 9th, 2011 at 12:24 PM ^
Hasn't there been some indication that Tate's "failing to live up to Michigan standards" was about his behavior in Jacksonville, rather than his academic performance?
In other words, do we have confirmation that it was indeed Tate's academic performance that was at issue here?
I realize this speaks to none of the other points made, but I think it's worth exploring.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:58 AM ^
That report covers a 4 year period two of which were Lloyd Carr's. Transfers had a lot to due with the low APR as I remember a report from the athletic department that one of RR's first two years the team had one of the highest if not the highest team GPAs since that data was collected. Haters gonna hate, but why be an a**hole.
If they bring in a non spread coach expect more transfers and another APR plunge. So I assume you will post the same for whoever that may be even if you like that coach.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:17 AM ^
They can't stop, even after he is gone. It's like a disease, or he is a relative of a freep reporter.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:25 AM ^
They can't stop, even after he is gone. It's like a disease, or he is a relative of a freep reporter.
How dare you, sir. At no time have I ever insulted you, and yet you accuse me of being the family member of a Freep reporter?
As for my posts, I could always jump into one of the 100 Hoke/No Hoke threads, but until we get more hints either way it isn't very productive.
January 9th, 2011 at 2:57 PM ^
The OP must be Jeff DeFran. Any chance he can get to make a negative comment about RR he will take it. Even after he has been let go, he just can't let it rest. I liked Brian's idea of throat-punching him.
January 9th, 2011 at 12:52 PM ^
I remember a report from the athletic department that one of RR's first two years the team had one of the highest if not the highest team GPAs since that data was collected.
Unfortunately, that report seems to have been a work of fiction. When pressed for data, Bill Martin couldn't provide any, and even claimed that the athletic department didn't keep track of these things.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:22 AM ^
His lasting legacy is the ability to turn Michigan fans into Notre Dame fans, as the OP aptly demonstrates.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
adj - 1) existing or occurring in a unfounded state of total ChristianFinnegan, as related to the University of Michigan and the irrational views of some "fans" that the sky is falling
n- 2) A word generated by bloggers on message board who, in their quest to generate dumber and dumber posts, fail to re-read their comments for spelling errors.
n - 3) A word that generates only one self-referential result in a Google search.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
This is very alarming, hopefully there was some improvement in academics. If it turns out we face penalties, that's just another sign that RR was not not cut out for the job. They are called "STUDENT-athletes" for a reason, and a coach's first job is to help his players succeed in the classroom.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:29 AM ^
Honestly, the transfers had far more to do with that than RR's "failures" in promoting classroom performance. I do think most student-athletes did well enough to stay in the program - Tate is the only person I know of from this year who had academic issues.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:15 AM ^
Justin Boren had daddy issues.
January 9th, 2011 at 12:31 PM ^
Didn't we get in trouble for punishing kids who skipped out on summer classes? Yeah, I can tell RichRod doesn't care about academics. Its amazing what RichRod can get blamed for.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:26 AM ^
References that Michigan needs to get a 945 this year. What happens if we don't? Is it the doom mentioned at the start of this thread or something different.
A 945 seems like a tough score to get looking at our past few years, 897, 940, 918, 979. We only topped it in 2006. I can't believe the transfers affected every year.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:32 AM ^
I have a sense that the APR numbers won't be pretty, but I also don't think that UM will face the "massive" sanction issues that the OP pointed to. The past couple of years, only like 2-3 programs have been hit with majorish penalties, and most had APR scores so low that UM would have to experience massive attrition AND failures to approach. The numbers won't be pretty, but I don't foresee the program being decimated either by the APR board.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:49 AM ^
one of RR's failings was his emphasis on academics. Most of the crappy APR is attributed to transfers, which as others pointed out is just stupid.
If RR emphasized defensive play as much as he did academic success we wouldn't be here right now, and we'd be talking about ninja football.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:56 AM ^
I'm willing to grant that he emphasized academics for kids already on the team.
I'd argue that he did not consistently emphasize academics when he recruited in a few rather obvious cases, as witness Demar Dorsey.
January 9th, 2011 at 12:07 PM ^
was vouched for by none other than Vance Bedford, a "Michigan Man", and recruited by a lot of schools throughout the country. Little did they know that his grades from the alternative classes he took wouldn't count towards his GPA.
For what it's worth, it's not the first time a Michigan coach went after someone with question grades. Who was the lineman that struggled to get in finally did and then flunked out. He was recruited by patron saint, Lloyd. We won't get into players shooting guns of their balcony or going onto female coeds porches and exposing themself through the window and then there's Kelly Baraka(sp). The point - all coaches try to win and sometimes take a chance on questionable kids. Even kids assumed to be good can turn out bad such as what happened with BooBoo.
January 9th, 2011 at 1:24 PM ^
Little did they know? Even Florida knew. Florida! And Miami We didn't know because RR either didn't do due diligence or didn't care. The kid's background was well known. It was also known that his scores were abysmal. But RR never ran DD by admissions. His claim about discussing DD with a "provost" was, um, erroneous. See reporting from MLive and Brian. RR made his bed on this one.
January 9th, 2011 at 3:06 PM ^
But, like the rest of this thread, "Dorsey" seems to serve as a springboard for any asshole to criticize Rich Rodriguez. Without spending 3 hours researching and writing 500 words on the subject, I submit that whether you like or dislike Rich Rodriguez, or whether you like or dislike his successor, the natural process of a coaching change will HURT Michigan's APR. Dorsey was and is zero impact on our APR. Dorsey was never a Michigan student.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:00 AM ^
The APR has good intentions. However, its calculations aren't necessarily truly reflective of its aim.
Anyways, can you imagine the APR in a previous era? Bear Bryant and Bo running off a third of their teams would be severely punished.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:06 AM ^
... in a story about Auburn (no. 85) here is the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/sports/ncaafootball/06auburn.html
And they mention Michigan (who is one spot ahead of Auburn):
Since 2006, both Florida State and Michigan have endured academic scandals, with Michigan’s ranking falling to 84 from 27.
January 9th, 2011 at 12:24 PM ^
There hasn't been any "academic scandal" during the Rodriguez tenure. Is this a reference to the Ann Arbor News story during the Carr years?
January 9th, 2011 at 1:48 PM ^
The scandal of Jim Harbaugh and the "General Studies" degree. Oh btw our current governor, a member of the US congress, and a few CEO's have had this worthless degree.
January 9th, 2011 at 8:48 PM ^
It may be the minor incident in 2007 where a professor in LSA was accused of giving football players independent study credits without having them do any work. I don't think anything ever came of it though.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:56 PM ^
"the Ann Arbor News" story. That was way back when they were still a newspaper. Before Lloyd Carr retired. Before Rich Rodriguez had set foot in Ann Arbor.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:55 AM ^
No, just as RR isn't responsible for the terrible record or defense, he isn't responsible for the APR.
<br>
<br>Then who is?
<br>
<br>Stop apologizing for the man.
January 9th, 2011 at 12:23 PM ^
Did your mother ever love you?