Rich Rodriguez "Some Michigan Players Felt Entitled"

Submitted by IvyLeague on January 30th, 2013 at 12:10 PM

Sporting news article on Rich Rodriguez.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2013-01-29/arizona-rich-rodriguez-turnaround-rose-bowl-michigan-mike-stoops

Interesting Quote:

“The Chad Hennes and the Jake Longs put the work in and succeeded before us, and guys behind them thought they were entitled to the same status but hadn’t proved anything.”

 

 

Comments

Butterfield

January 30th, 2013 at 12:45 PM ^

Did you see Hoke cry after Green's announcement?  I didn't think so.  A recruit's tweet is all you have and we all know that tweets aren't subject to misinterpretation. Hoke has not done anything remotely embarassing in public to this date. 

Meanwhile, even Josh Groban was embarassed by the public scene RichRod created. 

 Groban_medium

Butterfield

January 30th, 2013 at 2:16 PM ^

I don't interpret tweets, because that would be foolish without having any information.  Perhaps he bawled like a baby when Green called him.  Doubtful, but maybe.  Or maybe his voice cracked in excitement like it tends to do, like it did at his press conference - which could be misconstrued as crying.  Or maybe he told Green I'm so happy I'm going to cry.  Or maybe he didn't cry or crack or tell Green anything but Green embellished the story.

Point is, you don't know.  I don't know.  With RR, we all know.  You can still pull up that embarassment on youtube if you'd like to see a pathetic moment again. 

As to Groban's tweet - what is there to interpet? It's a joke at our former coach's expense, not an account of a situation that happened. 

BigBlue02

January 30th, 2013 at 2:55 PM ^

You realize Green tweeted that coach Hoke cried, right? I''m not interpreting anything. You are actually wildly speculating what happened. There are 2 people who know what happened on that phone call, and one of those two people told you about it. That isn't interpreting anything.

I would assume the Groban tweet was a joke considering he wanted RichRod to play Guns N Roses instead. I just found it ironic that you stated Groban was embarrassed by RichRod.

"I don't interpret tweets....until 2 sentences later when interpret a harmless tweet into a feeling of embarrassment."

hvsiii

January 30th, 2013 at 3:08 PM ^

Green also said this in an interview:

 

On telling the coaches he was coming to Michigan: I don't know if [Brady] Hoke was crying. I just said he was emotional about it. He was emotional because he was just so happy. I had all three hats on the table and he said that I scared him for a second when I picked up the Tennessee hat.

 

Not that it matters if he cried or not, just passing along some relevant information.

 

Blue in Yarmouth

January 30th, 2013 at 3:25 PM ^

I'm actually on your side of this debate and think RR should have just said no comment, but I have been on this board a long time and I can say without hesitation, that if there was a poster I could give that same advise to it would be you. You just don't know when drop things. You m ade your point now just leave it at that. You don't need to respond to every post that disagree with you for shit sake.

Edit...this was actually a response to one of your other posts...not sure how it ended up here.

Reader71

January 30th, 2013 at 1:30 PM ^

The difference in reception = the difference in wins.

Hoke has won 19 games over two years to Rod's 8.

Hoke has also been better at all other aspects of being a head coach; alumni relations, press conferences, recruiting, hiring coaches, you name it.

But make no mistake, if his record was as abysmal as Rod's, all of that would be for naught. We would be calling for his head, just like some of us are with Borges.

Section 1

January 30th, 2013 at 1:49 PM ^

Is there any doubt, that whether the Michigan Head Football Coach were Rich Rodriguez, or Brady Hoke, that Bo would have demanded the highest level of institutional loyalty?  That Bo would have had no mercy on newspaper reporters who manufactured a story to injure the program, or football alums who bad-mouthed the coaching staff?

Wouldn't Bo have lobbied for the much-larger budget for assistants' salaries that Dave Brandon (wisely) granted to Brady Hoke?

Wouldn't Bo  have insisted that any new coach be given 4 years to get things going?  Isn't that a virtual quote from Bo Schembechler, about new coaches?

Reader71

January 30th, 2013 at 1:54 PM ^

There is no doubt Bo would have condemned the treatment Rod got publicly. But I imagine Bo also letting Rod know - behind closed doors, of course - in no uncertain terms that his handling of the media was pitiful and detrimental to the program and that his record was not good enough. I'd venture to say that Bo would have let Rod know that Michigan is entitled to better results. In fact, I've heard Bo say exactly that to his teams.

This is all assuming that Rod would have been hired while Bo was alive. I don't think that is true. I think we'd have had Hoke earlier, or perhaps another program insider.

Section 1, we've had this discussion before. It was all about the record. Rod didn't deliver. True, he was hamstrung. But, and you must admit this, he failed.

BigBlue02

January 30th, 2013 at 2:11 PM ^

That's what I meant by "funny." It seems the only thing our fanbase has learned from this whole debacle is that if you win games here, you can pretty much do whatever you want. I won't get into RichRod's treatment before he even coached a game because, at this point, it doesn't matter, but our fanbase will spin everything positively for Hoke and negatively for RichRod. It's the way it is. That's the funny part. It was said here before, but Rich could cure cancer and most Michigan fans would be pissed at him for not doing it sooner

Reader71

January 30th, 2013 at 2:23 PM ^

I think if Rod cured cancer, people would greatly, wholeheartedly, unequivocally feel that he is a hell of a scientist. But, people would also lament the job he did as head coach of the Michigan football team.

And I don't think the thing to take away is that winning is the only thing that matters. We want a clean program. Hell, we demand it. It's not like he was replaced by Tressel. Hoke has shown the ability to win and, perhaps as importantly, to do it cleanly. The right way. The Michigan way.

Section 1

January 30th, 2013 at 2:47 PM ^

... why Michigan's alumni group of past letterwinning football players didn't want to skin Rosenberg alive.  Why Rick Leach seemed so alone in defending Rodriguez.  Frank Beckmann knows a thing or two, and he knows a lot of people in Michigan's football program.  And he was PISSED OFF about the Free Press story.

I don't understand why Michigan letterwinners didn't feel like they had something to protect in all of that.  Even David Brandon, a letterwinner himself, was blunt about it in an extremely uncharacteristic way.  The master of modulated p.r.-speak, he has unloaded on the Free Press.  I can't think of any good explanation as to why more football alums didn't step up.  And I can think of only one reason -- and it isn't a good one -- why Lloyd Carr wouldn't have stepped up.

Reader71

January 30th, 2013 at 3:30 PM ^

When the Freep piece came out, I wanted Rod skinned alive. He was the coach, he broke the rules, he was dragging our program throught the mud.

I only found out much later how much of it was bullshit. As it stands, I hate Rosenberg. I still prefer the Freep to the News, though.

And, I know we've talked about this before, but despite the fact that the report was bullshit, I (partially) blame Rod for its existence. Something like that could never have come out in Bo's time, or Lloyd's, for that matter. The players had too much respect for/fear of their coaches. And the freshmen whose quotes were butchered wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the media. And the media wouldn't have been after them to begin with. Let it be clear that I think the blame on Rod is only a small percentage, but it is there nonetheless.

Section 1

January 30th, 2013 at 4:13 PM ^

You get a B+ for remembering Stokes and Hawthorne three years later.

But they were interviewed by Rosenberg on media day.  And they were sandbagged with their quotes.  Even the lovely and talented Angelique Chengelis (Michigan's best beat reporter, by far) was offended by what Rosenberg did; she witnessed at least one of those interviews.  I don't know how you bar the media from talking to players on media day.

And I don't know how any Michigan coach could have exerted any no-interviews rule with players who were gone from the system.  Toney Clemons is confirmed; he admits he gave Rosenberg an interview.  From Colorado.  Justin Boren?  Mike Boren ("parents" were anonymously quoted)?  Ryan Mallett?  How should a Michigan coach in 2009 have controlled them, when they were all gone?

I am always stunned when I hear storieslike yours, because I know that you are a good representative of the past football letterwinners.  And they were all furious, at Rodriguez, because they believed what they read in the Free Press on the last weekend in August of 2009.  Losing was bad, they all agreed.  But major NCAA violations were intolerable.  I just think that guys like you came around too late.  If Brian Cook was on top of it (and he was), you could have been too.  Three and Out  was terrific confrimation/validation.  But it was too late for Rodriguez's good name in Ann Arbor.

Reader71

January 30th, 2013 at 5:34 PM ^

We were late. Of course we were furious at the report. We thought our coach was cheating.

And a lot of us still are late to the party. Until now, I didn't realize that the freshmen were ambushed at media day. I sort of assumed that they were requested by the Freep and OK'd by the department for an interview.

But, like you said, the damage had been done. Our program, and Coach Rod, were already tainted.

But he still managed to lose at a furious pace before, during, and after the Freep hit. Let's not forget that. Nor should we use the Freep hit as an excuse for our on field failures.

Section 1

January 30th, 2013 at 6:26 PM ^

The first time that there was ever any mention of "crying" in connection with Rodriguez at Michigan was prompted by the abuse (that's the only word for it) of Brandin Hawthorne by Michael Rosenberg.  Hawthorne was reportedly in tears, or near-tears, or worse, when he was quoted by name in the Free Press story, and was terrified that he had let down his cocah and damaged his team .  And he came to Rodriguez's office in that state, and Rodriguez settled him down.  Hawthorne's father was furious at Rosenberg.  And in recounting his meeting with Hawthorne in his press conference immediately following the newspaper story, Rodriguez's voice cracked, and he almost broke down.

Nothing comes close to explaining why Rosenberg offered anonymity to a bunch of ex-players who had nothing to fear from an angry coach Rodriguez (assuming that they were effectively "whistleblowers" on the program), when he did not grant anonymity to two players -- two brand new freshmen who had been with the program for a few weeks -- who really did have something to "fear," as if anybody had anything to fear from Rodriguez.

I have said many times on the MGoBoard:  of all of Michael Rosenberg's perversions of journalism ethics, his abuse of Stokes and Hawthorne is in a class by itself.

Section 1

January 30th, 2013 at 2:21 PM ^

Neither one of us can dispute the wins and losses.

And I don't think either one of us are wildly speculating about what we might have expected from Schembechler.

Rodriguez's team and losing record in his first year was very much unlike Bo's first year.  As you know, probably better than all but your fellow Michigan football insiders, the team that Bo inherited had just been destroyed by Ohio State in Columbus.  But it was not a bad team; in fact it was a loaded team that had been in the Top 10 in for a time in 1968, and was poised to do well. 

Shockingly (in comparison to Rodriguez's first year),  Bump Elliott never met with players who wanted to complain about Bo in his first year, but in the end that team gave the '69 game ball to Bump. 

And yes, we agree that in years 2 and 3, Rodriguez was very, very badly hamstrung.  By an NCAA investigation, by rumors of a firing, by press-developed distractions.

I try not to judge or criticize coaches.  They have forgotten more about their profession than I will ever know.  You can say Rodriguez failed if you wish.  I won't agree or disagree.   What I will say is that he was treated unfairly while he was here.  I think that much is very hard to disagree with.

Reader71

January 30th, 2013 at 2:38 PM ^

I suppose this is where we disagree. I think Rod's job was to win games, regardless of extenuating circumstances (which we agree were mostly undeserved and certainly very damaging). I'd have liked him to have an easier road, but he didn't. He lost a lot. I don't really know what you think his job was, considering you don't see him as a failure here.

I guess the best way to put it is that I am certain that a coach like Bo would have come in and immediately righted the ship. Even if Bump was against him (please don't read this as a belief that Carr was against Rod), the players were reluctant to buy in, the fanbase hated the idea of an unknown outsider coaching their program, etc. I just cannot see anything other than success in the face of failure and against long odds. Right or wrong, this is what I've come to expect from our program.

M-Wolverine

January 30th, 2013 at 3:39 PM ^

 

Wouldn't Bo have lobbied for the much-larger budget for assistants' salaries that Dave Brandon (wisely) granted to Brady Hoke?

 

When he was coach he was woefully underpaid (as were his assistants), and didn't have a contract most of time.  When he was alive and Lloyd took over, Lloyd and his staff were woefully underpaid (to the extent that Lloyd took his raises/bonus money and distributed it to assistant coaches), and he never said anything. Why would he have thought it was an important hill to die on only when Rich took over? 

The fact is Michigan is historically cheap, going back to Canham [Bo's assistants thought Miami (NNTM) had better facilities than Michigan when they got here], and they certainly weren't going to change that under Martin, a guy so cheap he turned off lights in buildings and told staff to take the stairs rather than the elevator. Bo being around (or in charge as AD) changed none of that. 

Brandon sees things differently, and made the right call in paying people more. If he had been the guy who hired Rich, it might have been different then too. But it had nothing to do with Bo not being around. It's more a credit to Brandon that he saw the changing landscape and the need. (And to the coaches before who managed to win at Michigan on a budget).

Section 1

January 30th, 2013 at 4:26 PM ^

And I think I did give credit to Brandon's wisdom in dealing with assistant salaries.

Bo was an advocate for the Stadium renovation, and as you accurately point out, Bo was an advocate for better facilities including Oosterbaan Fieldhouse as well as the building that now bears his name.

You are right about Michigan's historical cheapness with coaches; completely right.  Bo did tolerate it, seemingly forever; it seems that most of the Conference tolerated it.  But as the Big Ten fell behind the SEC, I have to think that Bo would have advocated for keeping up.  And remember that it seemingly was not that much money (or maybe Jeff Casteel is the smartest guy in the world) that kept us from getting Casteel to begin with.

redhousewolverine

January 30th, 2013 at 12:48 PM ^

I think he is just saying that in the world of college football and at the big schools across the country there are going to be players who feel entitled. They are receiving national attention in high school and were probably the more popular kids in high school. It is foolish to think that michigan doesnt have any. As the comment says, RR even probably recruited some of them. What he and te article should be more concerned about is that he seemed to forget how to coach competent defenses. Michigan defensive ranking should be considered in this articles point that RR didn't forget how to coach. Really just a poor article tryin to argue that it wasn't RR's fault that he failed at Michigan and it tries to support its position by saying he won 8 games in his first season at Arizona. It's one sentence paragraphs really don't paint a convincing picture for people who are more educated on this subject than the average Arizona fan.

evenyoubrutus

January 30th, 2013 at 12:27 PM ^

He probably feels the same way.

OTOH there were a lot of things he probably wanted to say back then but couldn't, and now he doesn't have to care who he offends (at Michigan).  Also, everything he said is accurate.

If Michigan were to meet Arizona in the Rose Bowl next year, of course I would want Michigan to win as much as if we were playing any other team.  If we lost it would be absolutely heart breaking.  But if I am being completely honest I can't deny that I would get maybe just a little enjoyment from listening to a conversation on WTKA between Jeff DeFran and Dave from Phoenix after that game.  Just a little.