Rich Rod, Casteel, and the Myth about Money

Submitted by Baloo on

I realize that this board will never agree on what caused Rodriguez to fail here. However, in an effort to focus our pointless bickering on the right questions, it's time to put to bed a very persistent myth. May the following remove one source of contention from our angry but increasingly-united fanbase.

The myth:

"In 2008, Bill Martin gave Rich Rodriguez only 265,000 to hire a defensive coordinator. This amount was too low to bring Casteel or any other top defensive coordinator to Michigan, which is why the defense was so terrible. Rich Rod was set up to fail."

Ignoring the silly notion that Martin would agree to furnish a new million-dollar weightroom and pay 2.5 million of RR's buyout but simultaneously put a $265,000 cap on the DC salary, let's take a look at what other power conference teams around the country were paying their DCs in 2008.

Ohio State (Jim Heacock): 260,510

Oklahoma (Brent Venables):  210,000

USC (Nick Holt): 300,000

Oregon (Nick Aliotti): 225,000

Alabama (Kirby Smart): 360,000

LSU (Bradley Dale Peveto): 200,000

Florida (Charlie Strong): 300,000

Nebraska (Carl Pelini): 190,000

Auburn (Ted Roof): 370,000

Georgia (Willie Martinez): 220,000

Florida State (Mickey Andrews): 295,483

Washington (Ed Donatell): 334,000

Cal (Bob Gregory): 168,000

Tennessee (John Chavis): 340,000

Texas (Will Muschamp): 250,000

Va Tech (Bud Foster): 300,000

Clemson (Vic Koennig): 260,000

                    Average: $269,611

Even assuming Michigan refused a requested increase, which is not supported by any documented facts, the offer of 265,000 was competitive even among the nation's richest big-name programs. The fact that it produced the 109th-ranked defense in 2010 is ridiculous and a spectacular indictment of the hiring abilites of one man. His name isn't Bill Martin. 

 

 

 

 

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Tater

October 30th, 2014 at 7:47 PM ^

The bottom line is that Casteel would have had to take a pay cut to come to Michigan.  The fact that David Brandon thought Greg Mattison was worth $1 million but saddled Rich Rod with Greg Robinson speaks volumes.

Joined: 08/13/2008

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Baloo

October 30th, 2014 at 7:54 PM ^

Michigan hired Greg Robinson before Brandon became Athletic Director.  

Also, way to just completely ignore the point being made, which is that RR had more than adequate funding to find a good DC even if his name was not Casteel.

Joined: 10/03/2014

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Mr Miggle

October 30th, 2014 at 9:58 PM ^

RR was criticized for not hiring a DC that specialized in the 3-3-5. The pool of experienced DCs that are both good and available is usually pretty small. Trying to use an average salary to pry one away from their current job doesn't add many options, Robinson wasn't even close to the 100 highest paid assistants so I doubt Shafer was either. Now narrow the pool to coaches experienced in running the 3-3-5 and there's not much left. Casteel was planning to come and we got beat out by a small amount.

The problem wasn't that the budget wasn't enough for a decent DC. It wasn't enough for a sure thing. They could have had someone who already worked well with RR and his assistants and who had successfully run his defense. Instead they gambled that things could still work out if they saved a few bucks. Maybe RR deserves most of the blame for not pushing harder.

Brandon made sure he wasn't going to repeat that mistake. I doubt very much the next AD will either.

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Baloo

October 30th, 2014 at 10:57 PM ^

If Rich Rodriguez absolutely needs Jeff Casteel and only Jeff Casteel to be successful, then he's a shitty head coach.  

Look at some of the elite coaches around the country, and tell me how many coordinators they've had over their careers while maintaining success.  Hint: it isn't one.

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Blue Durham

October 30th, 2014 at 11:26 PM ^

I have disagreed with a lot of what you have posted and how your have presented your points, but I do think you have a point here. A very important point. It is on Rodriguez that he did not make thing work with Scott Shafer, who, at the time, was a hot DC (I actually think he will eventually prove his mettle). There were issues with his assistants, particularly Tony Gibson. And he is not blameless for the subsequent Greg Robinson disaster. Rodriguez was the guy in charge. But to think that going Rodriguez to Hoke, given their respective track records, was a good idea, was totally clueless.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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snarling wolverine

October 31st, 2014 at 6:10 AM ^

Trying to use an average salary to pry one away from their current job doesn't add many options, Robinson wasn't even close to the 100 highest paid assistants so I doubt Shafer was either.

Shafer had been Jim Harbaugh's DC at Stanford. Prying an existing coordinator away from another Power 5 school is pretty impressive - and we know Harbaugh's a good judge of coaching talent.  That's not really much to complain over.

Instead of asking why RichRod didn't hire a 3-3-5 guy (of whom few exist), we should be asking why he is so fixated on that defense.   If he'd just been flexible enough to let Shafer run what he wanted, things would have been fine.

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Mr Miggle

October 31st, 2014 at 9:16 AM ^

a coach without serious weaknesses, you win. I thought it was about whether Michigan hamstrung him by being cheap with coordinators.

Shafer was a curious case. RR didn't know him, he hired him off of a reportedly unsolicited resume. I'd say he fell into our lap as opposed to prying him away. I wonder why he was anxious to leave Harbaugh's staff after one season, a successful one at that.

RR did let him run his own defense, until he was unhappy with the results. Purdue was the game where he forced Shafer to run the 3-3-5. There was a lot of tension between Shafer and the assistants as well and we know who RR sided with.

 

 

 

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MGlobules

October 30th, 2014 at 11:06 PM ^

accepted by a lot of people at the time, needs to be challenged. Four more years of lousy history cast a slightly different light on his record. RR went 3-9, 5-7, and 7-6; Hoke has gone 11-2, 8-5, 7-6, and in his fourth year. . .

Read Bacon to find out what kind of team RR inherited from Lloyd Carr. We all know, meanwhile, what kind of team Hoke inherited from RR--a pretty decent one.

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snarling wolverine

October 31st, 2014 at 6:05 AM ^

I don't think those overall records are very good - this is a school that had an all-time winning percentage of nearly .750 when he got here.  But the B1G record really tells the story: 2-6, 1-7, 3-5.  That is horrific.  

I think he is a better coach than his record indicates, and maybe he would have turned it around if he'd stayed, but 15-22 and 6-18 in league play is horrible.  

To put into perspective how bad a 6-18 conference record is, Hoke would have to lose  his next 36 games in a row to match it.

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mgoBrad

October 30th, 2014 at 8:28 PM ^

Rich Rod did hire a good DC. His name is Scott Shafer. Unfortunately, RR is as dogmatic about the 3-3-5 defense as he is about his spread offense, and neither of the DCs he hired here at Michigan were intimately familiar with that system like Casteel is. Thus the disaster on that side of the ball, which I agree comes back to RR.

With that being said, if M allocates a bit more money so Castell doesn't have to take a paycut to come here, we likely aren't having this conversation because RR and Casteel are still here having at least the same amount of success they have enjoyed at WV and Arizona. Again, if you want to know what happened in those negotations, grab a copy of John U. Bacon's 3 & Out and read about it. Casteel didn't come because of the money and also because Bill Stewart fought like heck to keep him at WV. Those are the facts.

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mgoBrad

October 30th, 2014 at 8:42 PM ^

I am aware of that. It's not pertinent to this conversation, but if you want to chase that rabbit hole down, here ya go: Casteel was paid $400k his last year at WV, and accepted a deal to coach with RR at Arizona for $425k per year. Supposedly he was due to receive a raise to around $450k if he stayed at WV. He never publicly spoke about the specific reasons why he left to go to Zona, but I have to believe the poor treatment and demotion of his close friend Bill Stewart at WV, combined with the prospect of having to coach with a guy in Holgerson he didn't really know, combined also with the opportunity at Zona with his other close friend RR opening up, it wasn't too tough of a call.

Again, totally irrelevant to this conversation, but there ya go.

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BlueCube

October 30th, 2014 at 8:47 PM ^

and the story does sound familiar that Casteel's wife didn't want to come to Michigan. Would she have changed her mind for more money? We'll never know.

If Rodriguez wanted him for his coordinator so bad, he could have cut his own salary by $50,000 to $100,000 and still been comfortable and had his assistant. You can't tell me there wasn't an overall budget. A lot was going to the buyout.

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MonkeyMan

October 30th, 2014 at 8:56 PM ^

I think the main point of the OP argument is that UM gave RR enough money to hire SOMEBODY who had the ability to field a mildly competant defense- not bottom of the barrel.

Even if RR was enamored with the 3-3-5 some other DC, at this price, should have produced at least an AVERAGE defense vs. far below average.

I really can't argue with that particular point.

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switch26

October 30th, 2014 at 9:18 PM ^

And ur wrong... A current players father on our roster who was recruited by RR told us the whole story.. RR never put anything in his contract for casteel to come with him. Then once at Michigan martin forced him to not allow any other coordinator other than Greg Robinson to coach for him... RR really had no relationship with him and was forced to have him on the staff. Also having a conversation with gerg this players father understood why the defense was Soo bad as he is a complete moron and one of the worst d coordinators ever

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switch26

October 30th, 2014 at 9:25 PM ^

No he didn't dumbass.. U should find some reliable sources before spouting off.. RR never put having casteel come with in his contract because he thought going to Michigan everything would be fine. Then bill martin made rich rod hire Greg Robinson because martin was friends with him and he is the only option he gave rich rod as a viable option. This is straight from a current players father who was recruited by rr and is still playing. Again I'll repeat Rich rod had no choice in who he could hire from bill martin. He had no leverage with his contract end of story

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switch26

October 30th, 2014 at 10:01 PM ^

But all these people posting what john bacon says happened or they say casteel wanted more money is true? How many of these people are actually inside the program and know anything about it? Everything I've heard from our neighbor who is a current father of a player is true or has come true over time so I'll stick with believing the facts from someone inside the program

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WoIverine Devotee

October 30th, 2014 at 8:40 PM ^

Rich Rod hired Greg Robinson and it's Dave Brandon's fault.

I understand that you're madly in love with Rich Rodriguez but he's gone, let it go.

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Don

October 30th, 2014 at 8:56 PM ^

What the fuck is wrong with you? RR hired GERG in January of 2009, well before Brandon took over.

Brandon is a douchebag who needs to go, but your constant assertions that Brandon is literally telling Hoke what coaching decisions to make and who to hire are completely without any evidence other than what you're pulling out of your butt.

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mgeauxblu85

October 31st, 2014 at 7:51 AM ^

I am so sick of reading about how Rich Rod got a "raw fucking deal" at Michigan. The "bottom line" is Rich Rod knew how much he'd get for his coordinators and still decided to come to Michigan. The other bottom line is he sucked ass here. His offense was trash against any decent team and the defense was one of the worst in the country 3 years running.

Are you one of those people who actually believe Lloyd Carr fucked Rich Rod? Rich told the media that Lloyd slacked in recruiting his last few years. After using this excuse and pissing all over Lloyd he turned around and cried that he got "no support". No wonder Lloyd didn't publicly support Rod because Rod was an asshole who had an excuse for everything. Fucking makes me sick to see all the people who blame Lloyd for Rod's FAILURE.

Rod was a cocky fucker too. First message he delivered to his team was "Ya'll lost Michigan's Edge and I'm here to get it back". Another cheap shot at Lloyd and former players. Hoke is a failure as well but that doesn't mean that Rod was worth a shit here. The "improving" argument is a giant copout. Guy didn't have a quality win in 3 years, his teams folded, ect.

Bottom line: Good luck at Az! Happy you're gone.

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