Return to Recruiting Dominance

Submitted by NorthwesternFan on May 18th, 2011 at 12:29 AM

Last year, Michigan went 4-4 in head to head recruiting battles against Michigan State.  This year, Hoke and his staff are off to an 8-0 start!

Against Ohio State last year, Michigan went 0-12(!) head to head on the recruiting trail.  Currently, Michigan is 1-2 (1 of Ohio St. commits being Brionte Dunn, who has legitimate interest in Michigan). 

Compared to last year's results, Michigan recruiting has taken a complete 180. Rather than beating the Illinois and Pittsburghs of the world, Michigan is going head to head with Alabama, Oklahoma, and Ohio State for recruits.  Let's hope that Hoke and Co. can keep it up!

Comments

JC3

May 18th, 2011 at 12:42 AM ^

At this point, I'd like to see more player development. Recruiting was good in 2008 and 2009, not too great in 2010, and a little better in 2011.

Getting players on campus, keeping them at the same position and in the same scheme, and getting some good old development in will work wonders for the program.

Koyote

May 18th, 2011 at 8:10 AM ^

Co-signed

Recruiting is half the battle, the other half is knowing.... I mean getting the product right on the field.

However, player development is not something that can occur overnight. It is unfortunately, more of a long term goal. That being said, it appears we are heading in the right direction.

tbeindit

May 18th, 2011 at 12:54 AM ^

i agree, there are schools like clemson who are awesome at recruiting, but well, they're still clemson.  i think it's great to talk about positive news, especially since we really haven't had too much great news in the last couple of years, but let's be honest, having solid recruiting for one class that doesn't even become freshman until 2012 

The big thing is going to be winning, especially against msu and ohio in the new couple years.  If we do that we should be solid in both player development and recruitment, but we need to get there before we crown hoke best coach ever

COB

May 19th, 2011 at 1:32 PM ^

optimism is great but that sounds awfully like "we're going to be Oregon, but better" from a few years ago.  The guy hasn't coached a single game at Michigan...maybe that would be a better indicator of long term success...maybe.  Off to a great start though.

RaiseThemRight

May 18th, 2011 at 5:09 AM ^

of true recruiting for UM has been good, but not great YET.  It's only May...Long way to go.  I will put this recruiting class in the GREAT catergory after I see some of the DT and OL he brings in by Feb.  If BleacherReport already has us #8 in the country (it is BleacherReport after all so take FWIW) then we are on the right track.  I just want to see the Line addressed with some Studs this year.

His Dudeness

May 18th, 2011 at 8:43 AM ^

Assuming RR's 2008 class would roughly equal Hokes 2011 (very first albeit rushed recruiting class)

RR's 2008 Michigan #10 overall class vs. Hoke's 2011 #21 overall class

RR's 2009 Michigan #8 overall class vs. Hoke's 2012 (yet to be determined).

Don't let facts get in the way of your wonderful argument though.

 Bang that drum.

michgoblue

May 18th, 2011 at 8:49 AM ^

Adjust for players who transferred out or those who did not qualify, the RR numbers drop significantly. Also, during. RR's 2008 recruiting season, Michigan was still consider to be up there with he OSU, Alabama and Oregon type teams from a recruiting standpoint. Now, we are in a serous rebuilding job from a recruiting standpoint. Not a criticism of RR but your numbers fail to take into account so many facts that they are sort of meaningless.

His Dudeness

May 18th, 2011 at 8:56 AM ^

As meaningless as over valuing true freshmen that won't see the field (if they don't transfer out or not qualify) until two or three years from now?

We are in a recruiting rebuild because we had poor records or a few years and we have a new coach, not because RR sux and Hoke rulz. Just pointing that out. #8 overall > #21 overall and #10 overall is in all probability > yet to be determind. I hope we do have a top ten recruiting class this year, but this post only tells head to head battles with Michigan State and Ohio State when we all know RR moved his recruiting base to Florida... so the "facts" of this original post are not exactly genuine either.

michgoblue

May 18th, 2011 at 9:13 AM ^

I am not saying that Hoke rules or RR sucks. Just saying that your numbers are worthless (no insult intended) since you are comparing apples to oranges. Right now, in the minds of many recruits we are a somewhat damaged program looking to rebuild. In 2008 and 2009 that was not the perception. Those kids remember Michigan as a perennially great or at least very good program. For many of today's recruits, the last time we were good was when they were in middle school. Again, no criticism to RR - just saying that you can't compare the 2008/9 numbers to today in a vacuum. Also, Hoke had all of like 11 days to recruit this last class. I would say that this is his first class coming up.

His Dudeness

May 18th, 2011 at 9:51 AM ^

Well then your facts are assuming bias. Ok. I agree with that.

I don't think comparing rivals overall class rankings to rivals overall class rankings is "comparing apples to oranges" exactly,  but whatever makes you smile, man.

michgoblue

May 18th, 2011 at 11:18 AM ^

I really didn;t want to get too far into this, because I am NOT trying to make any negative points about RR, but let's dig into the numbers a bit.

Let's look at the 4* and higher players (since those are the ones that contribute to a solid ranking) that make up that top 10 2008 class: Booboo, Smith, Koger, McGuffie, Fitzgerald, Wermers, Martin, O'Neill, 'Spoon, T-Rob, Mealer, Shaw, Cox, Odoms.

If you look at the committment dates, all but Smith, T-Rob, Shaw and Odoms committed well before Lloyd even announced his retirement.  That's right - 9 of our 13 4* recruits and our only 5* (Booboo) committed to Lloyd. 

With the exception of these 4 players, the rest of RR's recruits were 3* players, and the 2* Justin Feagin. 

Now let's dig a bit deeper into the 2011 class:  Sadly, we only had 5 players rated at 4* (and no 5* players): Beyer, Jones, Poole, Hayes and Countess.  Of those, Jones Poole and Countess committed to Hoke, not RR.  (Note:  I am assigning ZERO blame to RR for only having 2 highly ranked players, because even Nick Saban and his bag of cash couldn't have recruited under the conditions that RR was facing).  In his 2 weeks on the job, Hoke reeled in 3 players ranked as 4*, and 9 players ranked 3*.  The class was about evenly split between RR and Hoke recuited players. 

So, if the point that you were making is that Lloyd Carr's 2008 class was better than RR and Hoke's combined 2011 class, I would agree.  RR, even in his latter years, was still a good recruiter.  But to say that "RR's first class" was better than Hoke's first class, I think that statement is incomplete.  RR's first class was 2009, which was a great class.  Hoke's first class is going to be 2012, and that class will not be known for 9 months.  If I had to guess, I would assume that Hoke's first class (2012) will be ranked right around where RR's first class (2009) was ranked. 

A few caveats:

1.  Some of the 3* guys that RR picked up in the end of the 2008 recruiting period are awesome players (Roundtree and Demens).  I am not trying to comment on RR's recruiting ability, his ability to spot talent or on any other RR hot button issue - I am merely attacking the credibility of simply comparing 2008 to 2011.

2.  RR came into a situation where he was announced as the coach before the team even played the bowl, so he had almost 2 months to (a) retain Lloyd's recruits (which he did a great job of), and (b) fill out the class (which he also did a great job of.  Hoke, I think we can all agree, was put in the insane position of having to come in and retain RR's recruits - many of whom left because of the process or because of the 2010 defense - and then fill out the class, all in 2 weeks. 

BigBlue02

May 18th, 2011 at 11:42 AM ^

A couple points I find funny:

You saying his dudeness's numbers are worthless when he was comparing RichRod's rivals class rankings vs hoke's rivals class rankings and saying he was comparing apples to oranges.

You saying his dudeness's numbers are worthless when the point of the OP was to compare how Michigan recruiting is amazing 9 months before signing day because we turned around in-state recruiting and have 1 recruting win against OSU instead of the 0 we had last year.

The while idea that comparing RichRod's classes to hoke's is ridiculous because 2 years ago the people we were recruiting knew a national title and amazing Michigan brand name while today's recruits, those 2 years older, only know a shitty and not good Michigan football name. This, by the way, was the funniest part of your ridiculous posts.

Just the overall ridiculousness of not only your post, but the entire thought process that hoke is turning around recruiting because he is taking all MSU's recruits and has 1 OSU recruit. I think Hoke is doing really well recruiting, but is it really necessary to compare it to RR? We have 9 months until signing day and RR had a top 10 class his first full class. It's ok to say RR recruited well because he did. Hoke can do well all on his own...because he is. Comparing the last regime's recruiting to this one is ridiculous considering they are going after a different type of kid. Although we better hope RichRod recruited really well.....considering the entire team is made up of his recruits. How do you think the current players like hearing our recruiting has been down the past 3 years....when they were recruited and joined the team.

michgoblue

May 18th, 2011 at 12:02 PM ^

I am not going to respond to all of the nonsensical blathering that made up your post.  The points that I think you were trying to make have all been responded to above and below. 

One point that I will respond to:  "but is it really necessary to compare it to RR?"

Reading comprehension, my friend.  The OP did not make any comparison of the sort.  His Dudeness did, and it was to His Dudeness' comparison that I responded.  In fact (again, reading comprehension) if you look at my comments, the entire point is that you CANNOT make any comparison between 2008 and 2011.

As to recruiting having been down for the past 2-3 years, I don't think that any RATIONAL person will argue that 2010 was not a great year or that 2011 was on its way to being worse.  Again, I am NOT assigning blame to any one individual - most of the issue was simply not winning and having a local and national media that loves to run stories about a coach being on the hot seat. 

BigBlue02

May 18th, 2011 at 12:16 PM ^

Ah yes, reading comprehension. Like when you read the OP and see direct comparisons from RichRod's recruiting and hoke's (number of head to head battles won against MSU and OSU from last year to this year, 9 months before national signing day) and saying that we aren't competing against Pitt and Illinois for recruits anymore. But I guess you are right, there are no comparisons anywhere in the OP.

M-Wolverine

May 18th, 2011 at 7:37 PM ^

How do you think the current players like hearing our recruiting has been down the past 3 years....when they were recruited and joined the team.

 

Because I'm sure you've never referred to "bare cupboard" or "decimated defense" at any time over the last 3 years...and have called out everyone who has.

Logan

May 18th, 2011 at 11:54 AM ^

"We are in a recruiting rebuild because we had poor records [f]or a few years and we have a new coach, not because RR sux and Hoke rulz."

I'm no RR basher, but something about this sentence doesn't compute and definitely doesn't support your argument. All the OP said was that 2012 recruiting is going better than last year which I take to mean 2011. I don't think he had any intention of mistreating RR as you and Section 1 would want to believe. Most people understand the difficulties RR and Hoke had last year and think both did an admirable job given the circumstances. I'm not even sure how you make the leap from that to comparing this class to 2008/2009.

The OP's wonderful (although redundant) argument is still intact. Carry on.

Carcajous

May 18th, 2011 at 9:19 AM ^

Michigan named Rodriguez as coach earlier (before the bowl game), and Carr was not put in limbo in the same way that Rodriguez was.  All in all, the transition to RR was smooth as silk when compared to the transition to Hoke.  RR had lots of advantages in salvaging his first rushed class when compared to Hoke. 

Also, most of that first RR class was secured by Carr, most of that first Hoke class was secured by RR.  Not sure that helps your "argument."

 

But don't let facts get in the way of your wonderful rebuttal.  

Bang that drum.

His Dudeness

May 18th, 2011 at 10:57 AM ^

When comparing stats sometimes you have to make assumptions. I think assuming Hoke's 2011 class is roughly comparable to RR's 2008 class is a reasonable assumption. Hoke had certain disadvantages, but to call RR's transition "as smooth as silk" calls out your bias pretty clearly.

Carcajous

May 18th, 2011 at 2:35 PM ^

My description of "smooth as silk: was comparative, not absolute, and referenced recruiting only.  Nice try.

Oh, and calling it reasonable to assume Hoke' 2011 class and RR's 2008 class were comparable is, um, dumb.  See all the post in response that clearly explain why that is not reasonable.

 

His Dudeness

May 18th, 2011 at 10:52 AM ^

Head to head battles don't tell the whole story. Overall recruiting class rankings by a recruiting site (not by some blog plagiarised by a junior high school football coach) is another way of measuring recruiting success. I didn't think you were brighter than that, but I at least thought you could make basic logical connections. I guess I learned something today so thank you.