Refs

Submitted by Ziff72 on March 20th, 2011 at 6:42 PM

So browsing thru the posts I didn't see too much griping about the officials.  I thought they were terrible and called way too many ticky tack fouls.  We needed Big Ten officials( no idea where they are actually from but they didn't call a Big Ten game)  Duke was the better team  Smith and Irving were incredible, but putting those guys at the line every 30 seconds was a killer.     I was in a DVR cocoon so when I logged on I was surprised there wasn't more griping.   Was I way off in my feel of the game?

Comments

goblue418

March 20th, 2011 at 6:48 PM ^

no they were bad..but we still had a shot to win and didnt succeed. cant blame the refs for missing free throws, open threes, or the last shot

lakerblue

March 20th, 2011 at 7:01 PM ^

I agree with the whole we had a chance to win thing, but missed fts? We were 10-11. Duke shot 25 FTs to our 11. I think there is a leg to stand on if you wanna gripe about that. I think with competent reffing we most definitely win the game today. That said, there is no point to gripe about the officiating because that would take attention away from how much heart and effort the fellas showed today, and that heart and effort is what makes me proud to be a Michigan fan. 

HAILtoBO

March 20th, 2011 at 6:49 PM ^

Dude we are not gonna sound like little brother right now and bitch about the refs. We had the finally shot of the game to tie or win the game and we failed to execute. Nothing on morris for that he makes it 9 out of 10 just happened to be the one miss that one time. You should give an applause to this teams hard work and effort this season to get somewhere where they weren't predicted to be. In the end hats off to the 2010-2011 University of Michigan Men's Basketball team. You played your ass off. Thanks for everything!!! GO BLUE!!!!

ngroves

March 20th, 2011 at 6:50 PM ^

I understand the gripe but the refs were pretty consistent with how they called it.  I feel like they just favored the more aggressive play.  How many times did you see UM going to the hole (when it wasn't a wide open dunk)?

Stuck in Ohio 2

March 20th, 2011 at 7:05 PM ^

I agree, but there was a short strech (end of 1st) where it seemed calls were a tad bit ridiculous. But the refs have a hell of job on their hands and certainly shouldn't be to blame. Then again, alcohol and watching the game in a room full of OSU fans talking about Tressel really being "a good guy" and "covering up for someone else" may have to the increased frustration.

umchicago

March 20th, 2011 at 7:19 PM ^

UM was much more aggressive at attacking the basket today.  what game were you watching?  who the hell attacked the basket for duke today?  answer - no one.  (singler a few times and their bigs got a few offensive putbacks).  they took 20 3s and probably another 15-20 mid-range jumpers.

most of the fouls on us came 20 ft away from the basket.  yet, duke was constantly handchecking us outside the arc with no calls.  and i can remember about a half a dozen shots by morris and morgan who got "bodied" on a drive with no call.

i expected lopsided officiating playing duke in NC, but not this bad.  and to say we got the benefit of a few bad calls on duke, we did, ignores all the no calls they should have had.

 

bringthewood

March 20th, 2011 at 8:00 PM ^

I usually don't bitch because bad refs go both ways.  But I thought with the style of defense Duke played they had an officiating advantage.  The hands checks and arm bars were never called.  I wish they has called a closer game and I think we got more than our fair share of ticky tack fouls.

Loved the effort just would have liked to see a more evenly officiated game.  I was not impressed by anything Duke did, but they do have some great athletes and a really deep team.

umchicago

March 20th, 2011 at 7:31 PM ^

smot and morgan commit too many fouls away from the basket. 

but i don't think the officiating was that bad on fouls called.  it's the fact that duke got away with a lot more no calls; especially on morris and morgan shots in the paint.  that's the main gripe i had today.

RONick

March 20th, 2011 at 8:35 PM ^

Unfortunately, me neither...

I feel like Duke is consistently the beneficiary of the officiating, one way or the other. Watch youtube for videos of them getting phantom calls.

That said, Mich had a chance at the end and that is all we can ask for I suppose. Thanks to this team for being such a pleasant surprise!

GoWolverines16

March 20th, 2011 at 6:53 PM ^

The refs may have been bad but they were consistently bad, and in a sport that is as hard to call as basketball that's all you can ask for.  They didn't effect the outcome of the game that much as they made bad calls for both teams.

Bb011

March 20th, 2011 at 6:54 PM ^

Ha the refs were terrible. Especially for the first 30 minutes. The last 10 minutes they seemed to get a little bit better, but not by much.

2plankr

March 20th, 2011 at 6:56 PM ^

dont be that guy.  this was a well officiated game, and about ten times more even than a typical duke game.  i can remember one out of bounds play that i couldnt believe they gave to us, and we got a bunch of 50-50 calls, especially in the beginning of the game.  at the end our guys got tired from dealing with the press all day, and they comitted some legit fouls

not to mention the fact that they just gave beilein a warning when they could have teed him up

lakerblue

March 20th, 2011 at 7:04 PM ^

If the guys getting paid to cover sports for a living not on CBS (which doesn't hide its Duke love) said that M was getting the short end of the stick in a poorly officiated game, I think for you to say that it was a well officiated game is ignorant. Also the Beilein warning was bull, because Coach K was talkin just as much crap, and in the ears of the officials just as much

2plankr

March 20th, 2011 at 7:41 PM ^

Right.  So everyone who says it was fair is in the bag for duke, but anyone who doesnt is non-partisan?  FYI, there is a LOT more anti-duke sentiment out there than pro

If there is a significant group even on a homer site like this saying it was fair, then it probably was.

I thnk not knowing you are a homer is ignorant.  On that topic, what kind of credentials do you have to be calling people ignorant?

ijohnb

March 20th, 2011 at 7:12 PM ^

goes to the line more than their opponents because they put themselves in a position to do so.  Seeing the fouls rack up is hard to watch, but not because the refs are giving anything to them.  They are in the right spot faster than their opponent, thus, foul. 

Duke played a fucking great game and they beat us head up.

MGoBeer

March 20th, 2011 at 7:00 PM ^

I dont think it was well officiated but I wouldn't say it favored either side. Twice I thought the ball clearly went out of bounds off our guy but we got posession.

bronxblue

March 20th, 2011 at 7:00 PM ^

I thought that the refs were a little too partisan at the start, but at the end they just let the two teams play.  I've seen some really bad Duke-ist refs, but these guys weren't horrible.  Duke won because they were a bit better; let's not bitch and moan about it.

Tater

March 20th, 2011 at 7:11 PM ^

Michigan lost by two and lost at least ten potential points of differential in terrible calls.  The refs weren't the only reason Michigan lost the game, but it is ignorant and short-sighted to ignore the effect they did have on the game.  

The "old school" may say, "don't bitch about the refs," but the new school says refs, just like players, should be held accountable for their actions, and that their "contributions" to either team should be acknowledeged as part of the final analysis.  

In the case of Duke, they have gotten away with "Duke Defense" for 20 years now.  It's about time the refs made them play on a level court.

MI Expat NY

March 20th, 2011 at 7:54 PM ^

I will say that Duke does get away with a lot of fouls, but mostly because of the style they play rather than the name on the jersey.  If you're aggressive from the very start (hand checking, bodying up on the perimeter, etc.), refs either have to call it immediately or let you get away with it all game.  Usually Duke gets away with it because refs aren't eager to blow a lot of early wistles on "nickel and dime" fouls.  It's up to offense to force the issue early in games.  You have to attack quickly and at the defenders shoulders, before they have time to get set.  Create a couple quick fouls on perimiter defense and you're more likely to get later calls and get the defense to be slightly softer in general.

bronxblue

March 21st, 2011 at 7:48 PM ^

I'm not saying that Duke doesn't get away with stuff, but the B1G has the same type of physical teams.  Duke attacked all day, and they were "rewarded" if you will.  That doesn't mean it is consistent or fair, but UM knows that is how Duke plays and they need to take advantage of it where they can.  Remember, this was a team that beat UT by 30 with only 1 foul shot.  That tells me this team settled for jumpers more often than not, and thus didn't press the refs to make tough decisions that could have led to foul shots.  So while Duke does get some calls it shouldn't, UM probably left a couple on the court as well.

petered0518

March 20th, 2011 at 7:10 PM ^

I think the refs were fair, just that they called a tighter game than most Big Ten refs do.  That in itself is advantage Duke since they are more aggressive off the dribble and got a lot of free points off of it.  Outside of Darius Morris we don't have anyone who can take advantage of the way the refs were calling the game.

Vivz

March 20th, 2011 at 7:15 PM ^

consitently...maybe they got away with hand checks, and ticky tack calls went against us

but we were holding jerseys and quite a few of the tick tack calls were fouls...they called it that way against duke too

Chad Sexington Henne

March 20th, 2011 at 7:17 PM ^

I was in both bitch fests over reffing against Ohio State but I thought this game was fair. Calls made on both sides, some were meh calls but at least they seemed to be evenly distributed meh calls.

stmccoy

March 20th, 2011 at 7:39 PM ^

I thought the officiating was awful.  11 free throw attempts to Duke's 25 should tell the tale.  The refs have to swallow the whistles and let the kids play.  Call the hard fouls and let the touch fouls go.  Make sure the game doesn't get out of hand but don't control the tempo of the game by calling a foul every time a Michigan kid makes contact with a Duke one.  I wanted to throw my remote through the TV. 

tenerson

March 20th, 2011 at 7:46 PM ^

The whole free throw count thing is a bullshit argument. It always has been when the teams do different things. Dook had at least three guys focused on dribble penetration and we had one. That's where your differential is. You aren't going to get calls when your guys are mostly just hanging out at the three point line unless the lane is wide open.

The Shredder

March 20th, 2011 at 7:52 PM ^

It wasn't awful but it was called tight. The whole 25 fts to 11 ft thing is dumb. Michigan lives on the 3 point line. Go back and look at past box scores. They shoot the least amount of FTs in the big ten. And no they dont get bad refs every game. Hell look at the last game. Their style is the cause. 

Now I ref varsity basketball and I have said this a millions of times on here. You guys really dont have a clue. Hate me if you want but if you joined up and did High school ball instead of bitching about it you would know what I was talking about. The refs were consistent all game with calling it tight. Michigans guys like Evan,morris and Tim just cant move their feet as well to stay in front of the Duke players. Thus fouls were called when their hips are bodies made contact. 

It wasn't that bad. Stop taking away from how well the team played today and accept we lost by two points to the former champs. 

 

umchicago

March 20th, 2011 at 8:14 PM ^

1. UM attempted only one more 3 than duke today. 

2. morris, hardaway and morgan attacked the basket every bit as much as singler, irving and smith.

3. i have no problem with the fouls that were called.  it's the fouls that weren't called when we drove to the basket and some of the blatant handchecking. 

Yost Ghost

March 20th, 2011 at 11:27 PM ^

were attacking the hole pretty much the entire game. Hardaway, on the other hand, didn't really get into the flow of things until the later part of the second half. It would have been nice to see him do that for the whole game. Would have made a big difference.

mi93

March 20th, 2011 at 9:54 PM ^

You're right about officiating and our normal imbalance in FTs, but in a consistently tightly called game, doesn't Singler get called for his arm over Novak's shoulder on his last rebound?  Doesn't Morris get a couple more calls on drives like Smith and Irving got?  Doesn't Irving get a charge in the first half?  And how about the call at the end of the first half in a full-on scrum?

Being more aggressive from the start should never be a 40 minute advantage.  If you're allowed to hand check and arm bar the whole game because you did it at the beginning, then it goes both ways - not a benefit for doing it first.

Duke's not faster, they don't move their feet better.  They use their hands and arms to buy time to move their feet - thus an unfair advantage.  Fouls are supposed to be called when an advantage is gained - Duke does it for 40 minutes and gets lauded as being 'aggressive'.  I've played basketball my whole life, and that's B.S.

Good teams fight through the ebb and flow of a game, great teams fight through all adversity.  Since the losses at Illinois and Wisconsin, these kids showed how close they are to great.  Today, they were a runner for OT or a kick-out for 3 away from great.  We're in for a treat over the coming years.

JustGoBlue

March 20th, 2011 at 7:55 PM ^

about basketball rules.  But I will say that using the "So and so got more fouls than us, thus the reffing was lopsided and horrible" argument is a disgrace.  It actually is possible for one team to play significantly more or less dirty than the other, surprise of the century I know.  If Michigan had the 25 free throws and Duke had 11 who here would be complaining?  Bitch about officiating all you want.  I'm all for giving it to the refs when they suck, they're never going to get better if they think they're doing well, or at least that they aren't getting caught doing it poorly.  But have a real argument.  Don't just bring up the number of fouls (free throws, penalty minutes, penalty yards, whatever it is, I don't care) being uneven and use that as your basis for judging the refs, because that means nothing and it just plain stupid.

TFish

March 20th, 2011 at 8:09 PM ^

There must be some kind of massive amnesia on the boards, because two days ago Tennessee had 16 free throw attempts to Michigan's *1*... and no one complained about the refs in that game. 

The refs didn't screw Michigan in this one. It wasn't perfect, but it was better than I expected for playing Duke in Charlotte. Traditionally people point to Duke players drawing offensive fouls/charges more than guys in other uniforms probably would in the same situation. Today the only two plays that came to mind were when Morris pushed off Smith while bringing the ball up court (questionable no-call that went our way) and the charge that Novak committed (definitely the right call; Duke guy had position).

Whining about the refs does a huge disservice to our team's performance. Duke had a size and talent advantage at virtually every position, but for the last 10 minutes of the game I saw All-Grit-tastics outplay All-Americans and Beilein completely outcoach TEH GRE4TEST COACH EVAR, BROUGHT TO YOU BY AMERICAN EXPRESS.

MGoBlue96

March 20th, 2011 at 8:09 PM ^

that argument is that Duke shot 20 threes as well. There wasn't that much of difference between the two teams, in terms of the amount of times they attacked the basket or shot an outside shot.  Duke was not agressively attacking the basket on alot of their possessions either and was settling for a lot of outside shots. Basically the two teams shot an almost indentical percentage, the difference was the free throws.

I have no problem if people want to complain about the officiating in this game. The bias for Duke wasn't as pronounced as it is normally is, but it was still there to some extent. The foul trouble for our guys was pretty significant, Singler was the only Duke player in foul trouble. I saw alot of handchecking on the perimeter that was being called on UM, but being let go when I saw it occur on the other end.

With that said the better team did win, and it doesn't take away from the great effort by UM to make the game close.