Recruit JuCo For Defense?

Submitted by Robbie Moore on October 14th, 2010 at 9:22 AM

Assuming Rich Rod can not just plug in any athletic guy at QB and get great results then Denard Robinson is something very special.  Like once in a career special.  It would be a real shame not to make a championship run with Robinson.  But if the defense doesn't get better fast then there will be no run. So why not target the top two JuCo linebackers?  And maybe a D lineman and a corner?  I realize that JuCo is not the way to build a lasting program but this is an extraordinary situation.

So to the MGoBlog recruiting gurus, who's out there?  Tell me there are a few possibilities.

Comments

Denarded16

October 14th, 2010 at 9:31 AM ^

This is actually something I had thought about a few weeks ago. Bringing in a few good JUCO players could really help us out. Theres no question that the young guys we have are very talented but most championships are won by more experienced teams. Yea it would take some playing time away from a few younger guys but it will also give them time to develop and we dont have to just throw them into the fire. And i think the recruting staff is looking into this as we are trying to recruit moore, a safety who played at USC for a year and is now a JUCO.

MGoObes

October 14th, 2010 at 9:27 AM ^

but in almost all cases the credits from JUCOs don't all transfer, so if a JUCO player got to michigan he wouldn't be able to graduate in time. that's why they don't do it

jblaze

October 14th, 2010 at 9:30 AM ^

but have never seen any facts about it. I knew a few transfers at Michigan (granted they were nt Juco guys).

If a JUCO kid has say 60 credits at his JUCO, and Michigan looks at the classes and says, we'll only take 30 credits, couldn't the kid transfer and graduate in 3 years (I realize he could only play 2, but he could still be on scholarship for 3, correct?

MGoSuck

October 14th, 2010 at 1:47 PM ^

The problem is Michigan doesn't look at the classes and say 'we'll take 30 credits', they look at it and say 'we'll take 0 credits and you'll like it'. Even if you transfer from other 4 year universities, most of the grades in the classes won't transfer, and some classes credits won't transfer.

Example. My friend goes to central (fire up chips!), he was a bit of a fuck around in high school, so that's pretty much the only place he got in. However, he has really high grades there now (almost a 4.0), and so he looked around for transferring. Michigan would accept 0 grades and approximately 2 classes if I remember right. So after a year of classes, Michigan was willing to take 8ish credits. Central's not a great school by any standard, but it is a 4 year university, and it's definitely better than a juco.

Basically, don't get your hopes up for any juco players in the near future. Even Byron Moore.

jbibiza

October 14th, 2010 at 9:29 AM ^

As mentioned many times in these pages it is very difficult for JUCO credits to transfer to Michigan.  The only two JUCOs that I know of in the recent past are: Shaw ('96 -'97) and Panter ('07 - '08).  The former USC DB Byron Moore may be an exception as he is a JUCO for other than academic reasons..... would love to get this kid in a winged helmet next year.

BlueGoM

October 14th, 2010 at 9:32 AM ^

Yep

Most credits won't transfer, so very few kids from JUCO make it to UM.  

We've had issues with getting the kids who commit from HS to get in (Dorsey, et al) ; hopefully RR and company finally understand who they can target and who they can't (regarding academics).

K2

October 14th, 2010 at 9:29 AM ^

JUCO credits rarely, if ever, transfer to Michigan so it is almost impossible to get JUCO players admited to Michigan. Austin Painter is the only one I can remember in a long time and if I recall correctly he was basically qualified as a transfer student without athletics being taken into account.

DesHow21

October 14th, 2010 at 9:34 AM ^

go to Tulane or North Idaho State or some place like that, sit their 4th string LB/Safety down and tell him:

" Son, you are good enough to start the minute you step foot at Michigan. We have some film of our Starting LB's and Safeties to show you. You will sit out a year (which you are doing here anyway) but after that, you've got the job.". 

Why transfers only go out of Michigan, I just don't get? Why can't we go to a D1 school, grab a guy on the 3rd or 4th string (they already cleared NCAA clearinghouse), I just don't understand.

profitgoblue

October 14th, 2010 at 9:40 AM ^

Why would Michigan ever do something like that?? 

First of all, I don't think a school can contact players on other teams - that must violate NCAA rules just like it does in the NFL. 

Second, why would Michigan "recruit" a kid that would never, ever be recruited to play at Michigan regardless of the circumstances?  Even the starting LB at a school like Tulane or some other crappy school would likely never, ever have been recruited by Michigan. 

Finally and probably most importantly to many fans, the chances that one of these players could qualify academically at Michigan is slim to none.  On the line of thinking that Michigan should go after a JUCO player or another kid at some other lesser team, why not go recruit D-III teams?  Why not go watch kids in community college play pick-up games and recruit them?  Rodriguez already took heat for recruiting a stud like Dorsey after he didn't pass through admissions, why would he go for lesser talent and assumedly face the same problem?

DesHow21

October 14th, 2010 at 9:50 AM ^

but players that qualify for Michigan have to clear the NCAA clearinghouse.  Players that play for ANY D1 (yes even OSU) school have to clear the EXACT SAME requirements. 

As much as we like to pretend that the athletes at Michigan have to have much higher gpa's that athletes at other places...it is just not true. 

meals69

October 14th, 2010 at 10:05 AM ^

they have to meet the NCAA's min. standards to BE ELIGABLE TO PLAY THEIR FROSH YEAR. however, they also have to be admitted to the school that they commit to. they still have to go through the same admissions process as everyone else.

so, yes, the coaching staff has to make sure their recuits can be admitted to Michigan before they recuit/offer them. least we have another dorsey incident.

DesHow21

October 14th, 2010 at 10:17 AM ^

considered in the same pool of applications as me and you, I am sorry, you are beyond help. 

I could bring up any number of UM athletes ( ever heard of Slocum? ) to support my argument. 

Also, FAIL on the Dorsey example. Dorsey essentially padded/faked his HS credentials. He didn't make it into ANY D1 school. 

Zvornik Bosna

October 14th, 2010 at 10:24 AM ^

Meals69 is right to a certain extent. Notre Dame gets recruits over us all the time because they are able to offer guaranteed admission to their school of business. We however cannot do that. In most other cases the kid just has to be a little bit hight than the minimum in order to get accepted at almost every school, save stanford and northwestern

meals69

October 14th, 2010 at 10:38 AM ^

since you apparetly aren't familiar with me, i'll clue you in...

I was a D1 college scholarship football player at Bowling Green State University ('99-'01.) I was recuirted out of high school by most of the MAC and a handfull of Big ten schools. At EVERY school I visited through the course of my junior and senoir years, ALL said even if we offer you, you will NEED TO APPLY TO THE SCHOOL LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. I've been through the process and while yes i needed to complete the NCAA clearing house to be eligable to play college sports, you also have to be admitted to the school you choose.

as far as Dorsey, while i'm sure he completed the clearing house's standards (as no one would have offered him if he hadn't,) if he did infact lie about his academics, that WOULD BE WHY he was unable to gain admission to a D1 school, so you fail on that count, as well.

allezbleu

October 14th, 2010 at 12:21 PM ^

of course they need to submit an application like everyone else, but you are hopelessly misguided if you think admissions standards for football players are near that of regular students

sorry but bowling green's admissions standards for non-athletes is a lot lower than michigans

meals69

October 14th, 2010 at 1:01 PM ^

I never said BGSU's admission standards were anywhere near Michigan's....but for any school there is a cut-off point at which, if you're not above that point, you won't get into that school, reguardless of how good an athlete you are.

Minimal, basic requiremnets to admit students are put in place by the individual university. These are the standards that one MUST MEET in order to be CONSIDERED for admission. To assume that Michigan would admit an athlete, solely b/c they are an athlete when the admissions board KNOWS the individual will not be able to make the grade academicaly at Michigan is not only absurd, but would also infer that you believe there is a grade fixing scandal ongoing at the university.

 FYI, my grades and the activities i was involed in were good enough to get me into most any school in the country. I chose BGSU b/c they offered me a scholly, as I would not have been able to afford to go to college right out of high school otherwise. And b/c it was close to home. To infer that I chose my school based on my inteligence level is not only rude/mean, but is also ignorant.

 

EDIT: Also, I negged you for calling football players "dumb"

03 Blue 07

October 14th, 2010 at 7:35 PM ^

Meals, brother, two things:

1.  If you get past the clearninghouse, Michigan can almost always get you in. (Note that I said "almost always;" in the case of DD, it turns out he HASN'T actually been admitted anywhere.) Michigan's admissions standards for athletes are much, much, much lower. I mean, seriously- the average ACT for an out-of-state student is around 29 or 30; the school average overall is a 27. A 30, for example, is, I believe, in the top 5-8 percent of all high school students. Your statements re: leg up, etc., which you've kind of backed off of, were wrong, man. If you get through the clearinghouse, which has really, REALLY low standards, you get into M if they want you, 90 percent of the time or so. Unless you're a criminal or something.

2.  Spell check. Please. Put your posts in Microsoft Word before posting. My eyes are bleeding.

allezbleu

October 15th, 2010 at 12:58 AM ^

i said football players have lower admissions standards and you took that for me saying they were dumb. on top of contradicting yourself from your previous posts after probably realizing that you were wrong, you basically agree with me yet you re-word both our comments to disagree with you. oh well, i move on.

meals69

October 15th, 2010 at 10:43 AM ^

this quote: "but you are hopelessly misguided if you think admissions standards for football players are near that of regular students" is not stating that you feel all football players are held to a much lower standard than "regular" students? Also, at no ponit have I contradicted myself, my comment was taken out of context to which i had to clarify.

 

Also, sorry for the misspellings, but most of my posts are done from my phone. I fully admit that I am a horrible speller, but, I'm a cop, not an english teacher. If I had a spell check on my phone, I'd love to use it. Furthermore, if i had known that I would be recieveing a letter grade for my spelling, or been lamb basted for speaking the truth to many that either want none of it, or want to stick to the traditional thinking of "all football players are dumb, so they can't possibly be held to the same standard as 'regular' students" I would have simply kept my comments to myself.

please forgive me for thinking this was a blog where we could all communicate with eachother freely.

Mitch Cumstein

October 14th, 2010 at 10:38 AM ^

In all varsity sports.  That doesn't mean that the dumbest person on the planet could gain admissions and play sports at UM, but the athletes most definitely do not have to go through the same admissions process as the normal student.  Even preferred walkons can gain advantages in admissions status in many cases.

Lets say you have an average highschooler with a 2.5 gpa and a 23 ACT who is being offered an athletic scholarship. This person will be admitted no problem barring any arrests or things like that. If that same person isn't an athlete there is almost no chance they gain acceptance.

I believe this is the point In_Rod is trying to make. If MEALS is saying that athletes go through the normal admissions process this is completely false. Different schools do have different standards for athletes as well though.

Mitch Cumstein

October 14th, 2010 at 10:47 AM ^

Most applicants meet the "school basic requirements" but aren't admitted.  Athletes that meet these requirements are admitted.  I would consider that a leg up.  I'm not questioning the intelligence or the qualifications of the athetes, I'm simply saying that it is a stretch of the truth to say that athletes go through the same admissions process as everyone else.  I was an athlete at UM, as was my girlfriend.  A large percentage of the athletes would not gain admission if they weren't playing a sport, I think this is the point In_rod was making and I agree with it. 

meals69

October 14th, 2010 at 11:03 AM ^

see my response below...you guys are taking my "same admissions process" statment to the EXTREAM RIGHT. I'll clarify here as well...

when i said "same admmissions process" before (i'll clarify) i didn't intend for that to be taken as "they handle EVERY APPLICATION the same, exact way." What I meant was they still have to apply to said school and still have to meet said schools min. requirements, and still have to be selected for admission. do they weigh athletes apps differently, I'm sure most schools do. But if you can't meet the BASIC requirements for that institution, then you aren't getting in whether you've completed the clearing house or not.

03 Blue 07

October 14th, 2010 at 7:37 PM ^

Our school's "basic requirements" are, generally, a fuckton higher than the "basic requirements" for athletes. The "basic requirements" are generally "being cleared by the NCAA clearinghouse for college athletes." There are two separate admissions processes: one for athletes, one for everyone else. Yes, they DO have to fill out an application. But if you think the apps are looked at in even remotely the same way, it's simply not the case. Not at Michigan, not anywhere. Even the Stanfords and Northwesterns of the world still have different-- MUCH different-- standards for student athletes vs. non-athletes.

profitgoblue

October 14th, 2010 at 9:46 AM ^

No offense intended to schools like Alabama and Kansas State and the others listed as having received committments on that list of Top 50 JUCOs, but not one of those schools comes close to Michigan's academic standards.  I'm not sure why Michigan would go after these kids now after not having recruited them in the first place.  There is a reason why Rodriguez and Co. did not pursue them and that reason likely has not changed.

Kilgore Trout

October 14th, 2010 at 10:48 AM ^

My understanding is that you're both kind of wrong. 

In_Rod, the NCAA Clearinghouse standards are the same for all schools, but that is the minimum if understand correctly.  Schools can and do apply a higher standard if they're so inclined.

Meals, just because you have to apply like everyone else, you're kidding yourself if you think you are admitted on the same standards as regular, non sports playing joes.  When I was at UM during the whole Affirmative Action thing, the Daily had a thing about the points system they used.  If I remember, being an underrepresented minority was worth 20 points or something while being a scholarship athlete was worth 40.  This could be completely wrong, but I think I remember David Terrell only coming to UM because he didn't meet ND's academic standards. 

meals69

October 14th, 2010 at 11:10 AM ^

and if that's the system they use (points) then they are still going through the admmissions process. when i said "same admmissions process" before (i'll clarify) i didn't intend for that to be taken as "they handle EVERY APPLICATION the same, exact way." What I meant was they still have to apply to said school and still have to meet said schools min. requirements, and still have to be selected for admission. do they weigh athletes apps differently, I'm sure most schools do. But if you can't meet the BASIC requirements for that institution, then you aren't getting in whether you've completed the clearing house or not.

profitgoblue

October 14th, 2010 at 11:00 AM ^

You're wrong, he's wrong, I'm wrong.  Everyone join the fun!

The fact of the matter is that "NCAA Clearinghouse" rules have very little to do with Michigan admissions.  Just ask Demar Dorsey.  Michigan standards > NCAA Clearinghouse standards > JUCO standards.  If you all don't see it that way, you're just kidding yourselves.

meals69

October 14th, 2010 at 11:08 AM ^

and that's EXACTLLY what i've been saying....the clearing house standards are bare min. basic standards that all college athletes must meet upon entering college. Many school's standards excced the clearing house standards, i'm sure Michigan's standards far exceed the clearing house standards

artds

October 14th, 2010 at 9:45 AM ^

The problem isn't the players, guys.

No, we don't have championship-caliber players on defense. But we sure as hell don't have dead-last-in-the-league-caliber players either.

Our defense this year is only slightly worse than last year. And I'm sorry, but if you can't field a semi-decent defense when your players include B. Graham, Mike Martin, Troy Woolfolk, Donovan Warren, Stevie Brown and Jonas Mounton, then you're doing something wrong.

The fact that we admitedly have less talent on D this year than last year is nothing more than a convenient exscuse for the continued failures of our defensive coaching staff.

Again, try not to think in terms of absolutes. People act like the fact that we don't have the players to field the best defense in the league necessarily means that we'll have to field the worst defense in the legaue. That isn't true. There are many levels in between, and we certainly had the players last year to do better than we did.

profitgoblue

October 14th, 2010 at 9:59 AM ^

I don't mean to attack you, In_Rod_I_trust, but your statement about Ezeh makes absolutely no sense when read in connetion with your previous posts in this thread.  You state that Ezeh is so terrible (as to warrant the firing of Jay Hopson) and would rather recruit a JUCO kid instead?  That makes absolutely no sense.