rob f

January 15th, 2018 at 4:58 PM ^

will be doing a one-hour special on the Larry Nassar case @12:30 pm Tuesday (tomorrow) on ESPN. I searched without success for a link to post here; all I could find was tomorrow's program schedule grid but nothing specific to this particular OTL episode.

Other than that, please take note that it will start @12:30 rather than the normal 1pm slot, apparently to accommodate the expanded time slot needed to cover the mess in depth.

Set your DVRs if you have to work during that time slot, as I didn't see anything about a rebroadcast later in the day or coming week. It'll be interesting to see what additional information Bob Ley can present tomorrow. I'm sure MSU's administration is NOT looking forward to this particular OTL broadcast.

I just wanted to drop this information as close as possible to the top of the thread to keep it from being burried beneath all the side discussions.


January 15th, 2018 at 11:54 AM ^ get into some giant back and forth on this one.  I'm just saying that the "you have to be trolling" is over the top.  

Sometimes, you guys go just a little overboard, when someone dares having a different point of view.  To me, a "build-your-own dildo" event, put on by the university, is not a good look.  Am I saying that the two are connected?  No.  Am I saying that sex can't be mentioned on campus?  Of course, not.  

I am saying, that I can see the point, that it might be in the best interest of a university that has been under a mushroom cloud of sexual scandal, maybe err on the side of caution and not put on Build-a-Dildo workshops.


Clarence Boddicker

January 15th, 2018 at 12:06 PM ^

The thing too is that it isn't like this was an official university event. Individual profs or departments are allowed to schedule events on campus without any form of administrative approval. We operate, happily, in a pretty free environment. At my school, I could potentially host the same event--at most I'd need the approval of my dean. I won't, since human sexuality is something I wholeheartedly practice but not what I teach, as I have no scholarly research in those...uh...areas. All that is to say that to blame the entirety of the MSU administration for an one-time on-campus event--as opposed to rape by an employee fostered by a cover-up--is off base too.


January 15th, 2018 at 12:14 PM ^

The event was canceled, so on that note, someone must have seen the ad or heard about it and made a call.  So, that does go against the idea that the university is tone deaf on the issue.

Having said that, I do agree with you, I don't see anything wrong with the event, even if it wasn't canceled.  I read the article and the event was being but on by the UAB, which is run by students.  Not a big deal.


January 15th, 2018 at 12:01 PM ^

"Should students at MSU forego masturbation because of the scandal?"

And you talk about the connection that I'm making.  I've been masturbating for a long time, decades actually...never had to take a class to learn how to do...and I'm pretty good at it, if I do say so myself.

Making the statement that the university is tone deaf or that it isn't a good look, isn't outrage, it's a point of view.  You don't have to agree with it.  In fact, you bring up some thought provoking points.  The only problem is that you package those thoughts in a neg-bomb fist and ask how anyone could ever have a differing view on the subject.  


January 15th, 2018 at 12:07 PM ^

We know how you can have an opposing view. We just don’t understand why you would. It’s not based on sound reason.

It’s because your view does depend on somehow tying dildo building to rape and assault. Not equating, but relating. But they’re not related in any meaningful way.


January 15th, 2018 at 12:26 PM ^

I feel like I need to clarify my view, before we go further.  1) there is no connection between dildo building and rape, 2) I wasn't outraged by the event.

Having said that, I didn't/don't understand why CryingMagnus was getting slammed for the idea that it isn't a good look for the university.  Having that point of view, doesn't mean that you believe there is a correlation between rape and dildo making, it just means that you think it's not good PR.

I just don't understand how you guys don't see that.  Perception is something that the university does have to be concerned with and in their current situation, there are things that they may decide not to do, because it my give the wrong perception to the public.


January 15th, 2018 at 12:35 PM ^

I understand your point. I just don’t believe it’s reasonable.

If you concede there’s no meaningful relationship between rape and dildos, how is it a bad look? I know you’re coming at it from a PR perspective, but I’ll bet the juice of a lemon that you agree with me that the PC movement is an awful force in the world and particularly on college campuses. Well, this is just PC backtracking in the face of sexually repressed people who see a connection where there isn’t one.


January 15th, 2018 at 12:53 PM ^

...that you have 40,000 parents considering where to send their child, over the next 4 years.  Are you going to go around and make sure that they understand that there is no connection?  

I'm not saying that I agree with it, but the reality is that MSU is in no position to push the envelope.  Between the Nassar thing and basketball/football player rape, and giving raises to the President during all of it, they may have to be overly cautious for a bit.  That's more of a "it is what it is", than a reasonable or unreasonable point of view.

Regarding PC, yes, I owe you a little fresh squeezed lemonade, I'm not a fan.


January 15th, 2018 at 1:20 PM ^

Again, I understand your point. I know that there are people who would put 2 and 2 together and get vagina and be scared off.

But the people would be acting unreasonably in coming to that conclusion. The school would be acting unreasonably by cancelling the event. People on the internet would be acting unreasonably by encouraging the cancellation.

I’m more militant than you on this, but that’s a disagreement that I think is reasonable.

Clarence Boddicker

January 15th, 2018 at 12:16 PM ^

My apologies for the tone. Other people here do deep and profound bits of football analysis: snarky remarks are my shtick.

Anyway--this sounds like an older dude (and I'm 51) saying "In my day, we just jerked-off and didn't talk about it. And we liked it that way!!!" But not talking about it perpetuates a sense of shame in the act. We don't talk about it because it's dirty and wrong--if it weren't, we'd talk about it. Banning sex ed doesn't stop kids from having sex. It does raise the chances that they're not taking procautions against undesired outcomes. And they're more likely to fall victim to monsters like Nassar.


January 15th, 2018 at 12:43 PM ^

...and stationed in the Philippines, I was the Corporol of Guard for the Security Forces detail.  Every few weeks, we'd get some new guys in (noobs, we'd call them) and I'd interview them, just to get a feel for them.  One of my first questions was always, "Do you jerk-off?".  It was a great ice breaker question and it was always interesting to see how they'd anwser, once they got past the initial shock.  True illustrate that I am not THAT old guy.

I think that what we are doing is having the debate as to whether MSU should EVER have a Build-a-Dildo workshop, but what CryingMagnus is really talking about is whether there are times that it would be better to be cautious and maybe reschedule.

I am in complete agreement with regards to the last half of your paragraph.


January 15th, 2018 at 10:17 AM ^

REGARDLESS OF INTENT, you don't think the optics of an event advertised as build your own dildo is a bad look 1. in general and 2. probably not a good idea given the lack of integrity and accountability regarding sexual harassment and sexual assault that permeates parts of MSU's campus?

Despite who it was hosted by, this is NOT a scholarly event.  Wake up!

I guess you think the consensual sex tent on PSU's campus was aces too!  

Stay classy dude!

Oregon Wolverine

January 15th, 2018 at 11:00 AM ^

Hung up and confused about sexuality. For some, all things sexual are dirty and wrong (don’t ask them how they were conceived, probably “virgin” births...), and won’t be honest at all about their own sexuality or sexual interests.

The religious based “moral indignation,” IMHO, is part of what keeps productive dialogue down and actually increases risk, the culture which keeps people from coming out against those who act out, opportunists and predators alike.

For a provocative read, check out:

The dialogue needs to shift into less judgment based (I.e. knock off the notion that the only acceptable sex is heterosexual w/I construct of marriage) and acceptance that consensual, non-harming sexual expression is ok, even if it doesn’t fit your personal taste. (Andrea Dworkin’s provocative scholarship notwithstanding).

Within that construct there certainly are vulnerable persons that need to be protected (I.e. children, imbalanced power dynamics), and predators (Nasser) that must be warehoused for community protection.

Before you neg the hell out of me, this is my field of practice. I’m an experienced criminal defense attorney, hella-protective father of three daughters. I dialogue w/psychologists, Prosecutors and judges, state and federal, about what works and what doesn’t. You might be surprised.


January 15th, 2018 at 12:13 PM ^

That’s the “why” I’m asking about. Why are we so messed up about sexuality?

You point out religion and virgin births, and that’s certainly a factor, but I can’t accept that as the main one — whoever wrote the religious scripture was already messed up about sexuality. That’s the interesting thing, to me.


January 15th, 2018 at 2:09 PM ^

I'm not sure where you'd find a school that limits activities to the academic, or why you would want to. My memory of life on various college campuses includes no end of non-scholarly events--a whole gamut running from intramural softball practice to Nancy Reagan Smoke Dope on the Quad Day to an AIDS fundraiser featuring phallus-shaped sugar cookies.