Ramzy article. Good read.

Submitted by Casanova on

This is my first forum post. I was strolling through Elevenwarriors, I found this gem:

Ramzy is my favorite writer over there. This was a good read (buckeye tilt warning).

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/college-football/2014/10/41405/the-enemy-…


"..Maybe you enjoy seeing Michigan's struggle, but this type of unthinkable decline is capable of happening anywhere - especially at our favorite ivory tower. All it requires is unchecked power in the hands of the wrong goddamn person guarded by influential people supporting him or her for all the wrong reasons."

Casanova

October 8th, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^

Ed-Ace: Deleted the entire content of this post. Please don't cut-and-paste entire articles from other sites. If you can't bring yourself to click over to our friends at 11W, then don't read 11W.

Mike60586

October 8th, 2014 at 4:40 PM ^

Any chance I get to knock Herbie, I do.  

I truly think that he cost us Les Miles by reporting that it was a done deal, when Les wanted a lid on it.  I think this leak pissed Les off so he held the press conference before the game stating that none of it was true.

Not that I can prove any of this, and that the course of things would be different now, but just my opinion.

Baloo

October 8th, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^

Blah blah blah...we've had some bad head coaching hires.  End of story.  The "institutional vanity" bullshit is just a convenient way for Ramzy to take several shots at Michigan while presenting almost zero factual context.  In other words, it's a typical Ramzy article.

Baloo

October 8th, 2014 at 3:13 PM ^

Of course not, but if we had made a good coaching hire, all those problems would not be here today. When Hoke was hired, the national media and most of the Michigan fanbase considered it a solid though not spectacular hire. Stewart Mandel gave it a A-, TheBigLead gave it an A, Schlabach called it "the right fit for the Wolverines," etc. That was wrong, he failed here, and that directly caused or contributed heavily to just about every other problem on Ramzy's list.  

Baloo

October 8th, 2014 at 3:26 PM ^

Yes, some of the rationale for hiring Brady Hoke was his past connections to the program, but that's not exactly uncommon in coaching searches, and he was a fairly attractive candidate at a time when Michigan was looking for stability and a rebuilt image after the Rich Rod mess.

With no connections, does he get the job?  Probably not, and that's something our future Athletic Director needs to address by giving less weight to that particular trait.  But all this stuff about arrogance, vanity, corporitization, administrative salaries, poltics, etc. is just a bunch of noise.  Bottom line: Hire a better coach.

Baloo

October 8th, 2014 at 3:55 PM ^

Okay, so we have a bad AD who made a bad decision based on poor criterion. It happens to other places too.  

I just don't get why even though every major program has periods when they are down for 5-10 years, Michigan's MUST be caused by some deeply ingrained, widespread problems among the fans, administrators, and coaches.  

Baloo

October 8th, 2014 at 4:58 PM ^

Even bringing the regents into this is ridiculous.  Ramzy calls them "complicit in allowing him to consolidate power and balloon spending."  Huh?  What power has Brandon been given that previous ADs have not?  How are the regents supposed to control Brandon's discretion over the department budget?  And what do the regents or Brandon have to do with Gibbons and Morris?

The entire article can be summed up as follows:  David Brandon sucks and that's why Michigan sucks, now here are a whole bunch of other unrelated bad things about Michigan that I'm tossing in under the blanket of a made-up phrase.

goblue20111

October 8th, 2014 at 4:14 PM ^

Again, read Third and Long.  The internal politics and BS went after RR from the get go because he wasn't the right fit.  It's why this program is viewed with such toxcity and outsiders are viewed with contempt.  Brandon is part and parcecel of that culture.  Remember "I'm the kind of man who knows what it takes to be a Michigan Man"? Ya, that's not just a Brandon problem -- it's a problem pervasive throughout the AD and amongst its nature supporters.  This isn't a case of a bad decision -- we're here because of the culture.  Lots of people wanted a Michigan Man -- well you got two of them now.   

Baloo

October 8th, 2014 at 5:45 PM ^

These are exactly the kind of generalities I'm talking about.  "Internal politics," "BS," "toxicity," and my personal favorite - "culture."  Without specifics, they're just cliches. I look at Michigan's problems and I see two things.  One, a head coach who knew nothing about defense and didn't hire the right guy to help him.  Two, a bad AD putting too much weight on personal connection. Everything else is just a symptom of those two decisions made by those two people.

mgowill

October 8th, 2014 at 6:44 PM ^

They aren't generalities when you can cite specific examples of each.

Toxicity- amongst the students for the botched student seating. Among the fans for pimping out the Michigan name. Among the administration for trying to get medical staff to lie.

Internal politics- hiring a Michigan Man with a sub .500 record because of pressure from within to hire whoever fit that meme. Pushing out a coach who was improving his record because he wasn't liked.

Culture- what else could cause you to put Denard under center? Seriously.

You hate Ramzy, we get it. You think the solution is as simple as "hire a good coach." I think that you are being naive

The Geek

October 8th, 2014 at 9:06 PM ^

but I do get your point WRT the "Michigan Man" obsession and politics. However,

RR wasn't a good fit for the University of Michigan. He just wasn't. He may be a great football coach, but he just didn't fit in... I mean, Josh MF Groban, goblue20111?

You mention "3 and Out." (Not Third and Long!). Did we set RR up for success in Ann Arbor? The school could have done more to acclimate Rich Rod into the culture, yes. But I do not think the same mistake will happen again. I like Dr. Schlissel, and I trust his leadership right now.

Bottom line: DB is a very polarizing AD. There is no gray matter... But there is NO toxic culture at the school. Did you forget how electric Crisler Center was last season? 

Dave Brandon had an opportunity to get in line behind Yost, Crisler, Canham and Schembechler as the greatest AD's in Michigan's history. And frankly, he sort of Forrest Gump'ed his way to the position. But in the end, Dave Brandon fucked our football team up because he's a big giant douche.

 

gbdub

October 8th, 2014 at 8:45 PM ^

"Okay, so we have a bad AD who made a bad decision based on poor criterion [sic]."

You seem to forget that Dave Brandon didn't come to Michigan until 2010 - Rich Rod was under attack for various perceived slights against "Michigan Man" culture long before then. So Brandon is certainly the most visible and powerful proponent of the "poor criterion" that got Hoke hired, but he's not the only one. That crowd existed before he came to Michigan, and at least part of it will probably survive his departure.

Heck, even Brandon's hiring was a sign of that culture - how else does a guy with zero AD experience get that job at Michigan without his membership card in the "Bo's Boys" club?

BuckeyeRef

October 9th, 2014 at 6:11 AM ^

Well, its probably because RichRod had great success at WVU and now he's enjoying success at Arizona. Seems to prove he actually is a good coach. How do you explain the trainwreck that was his tenure at UofM? Maybe there was too much BS, political infighting, lack of leadership in the Athletic Dept, or who knows, maybe bad recruiting, no player development....oh wait, I guess the same could be said today of Hoke.

Let me just say this, UofM needs to go hire a PROVEN winner, period. No more of these HC's who have one good year and all the sudden are some sort of genius. Go get Jim Harbaugh and pay him what he needs. Its the fastest solution out of this mess.

The Geek

October 8th, 2014 at 8:34 PM ^

"shoulda coulda woulda's" ... 

I felt excited about both Rich Rod's and Hoke's hiring, but it doesn't change where we are today. We can and will recover from this.

In 1987 Ohio State finished 4-4 in the B1G, and Earle Bruce was shown the door.

In 1988, Cooper's first year, OSU he went 2-5-1. For several season he finished with at least 2 losses, but the program has had continued success since '89. 

Those in all the right places fucked this up, guys. And it doesn't matter if you blame the hiring OR firing of RR; Carr's lack of a clear successor, or the Brady Hoke debacle. We're still in the same place today -- We will get this right. We'll have a new AD and Head Football Coach before we're ramping up for the Sweet Sixteen in March. 

We'll be fine. Drink a beer and burn a doob. It's almost basketball season.

 

4godkingandwol…

October 8th, 2014 at 9:22 PM ^

... But national media are usually idiots about grading these hires. I believe Brian did the most thorough examination, and it was not favorable. You would expect David Brandon would do a more thorough job evaluating hokes ability to coach football than Brian. Failure to hire strong leaders because of misaligned understanding of what it takes to be successful is a symptom of the root problem. In our case, that problem was stubbornness and an unwillingness to adapt at an institutional level.

bjk

October 8th, 2014 at 9:34 PM ^

Perhaps the most important part of the AD's job, n'est-ce pas?

Especially after firing the predecessor after only three seasons.

If we're going to be fair, let's not just include the good things, like gutting the non-yes-men in the AD, alienating the fans, debasing the game-day experience, and treating the whole thing like his own personal playground.

Wolfman

October 8th, 2014 at 9:57 PM ^

I'm certain you all remember the article and accompanying poll taken about a half-decade ago to find the dirtiest program in the BIG, and there were only two in discussion for receiving this less that honorable distinction.

I have no idea why more was not brought down upon OSU for the decade long transgressions of Jim Tressel and all those associated with and were fully aware and at times complicit in his many less than legal activities. I think Meyer, by nothing more than spending the years he did in the SEC might take them to a level in which they'll actually feel pain.

On the other hand, the school that won as being the most dishonest merely by the sheer number of violations was, of course, MSU. While I have little doubt as to where the instructions for decapitation originated, I'm certain he instructs his players to do it at the bottom of a pile where such action would be barely discernible. I think this is a safe assumption inasmuch as he didn't even remove him from the game for his actions. I would hope any UM coach witnessing such behavior, let alone condoning it, would set said player on his ass for weeks.

I think Dantonio learned just too much that he understands the true meaning of not losing a good thing. However in Colon, where Meyer inherited the ingredients that were so skilled that if RR had inherited likewise in AA, he would still be here. With that said, I think the pressure of that always simmering pot is going to bring it to a boil that might make even Tressel blush and I think it will occur prior to the next decade's birth.

Again, thanks for the read. Very interesting.

Baloo

October 8th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^

Yes but it has almost nothing to do with the failures of our head coach, who simply isn't very good at winning games. People love to speak in sweeping generalities about the reasons Michigan hasn't been good for a while, but they aren't very complicated.  We need to hire better coaches.

Casanova

October 8th, 2014 at 3:31 PM ^

I postulate the success of athletic department and the coach to be inseparable. Do you agree? If not, please highlight this point of distinction.



I do not think that "institutional arrogance" is a sweeping generality when it is centered on Dave Brandon and his cronies. It it is no insult to call a spade, a spade.

Baloo

October 8th, 2014 at 3:50 PM ^

But that's just the point. Dave Brandon is arrogant. That isn't "institutional arrogance," and his personal arrogance may or may not have caused him to a hire a bad coach.  Ramzy acts like Brandon has made 15 bad head coaching hires and each time was supported by a group of rich cronies in the administration who ignored all outside voices. It's a very easy picture to paint, which is why so many have done it, but there's really isn't much supporting evidence.