Question about transfers

Submitted by mgoblueballer on September 29th, 2010 at 4:31 AM

So there has been news in the last month or so about Michigan players transferring to other schools. But my question involves the other aspect. Does Michigan have a history of accepting transfers onto the football team? And is it ever a good idea to seek out and recruit a transferring player?

Comments

lilpenny1316

September 29th, 2010 at 5:18 AM ^

We have had a couple JUCO transfers, including Russell Shaw in 1997, but not much in the way of Div I-A guys transferring over.  I don't know if it isn't the Michigan way, but I've never really thought of guys transferring over except when the NCAA allowed the USC upperclassmen to walk.

jmblue

September 29th, 2010 at 4:03 PM ^

Jonathan Goodwin, a member of our great 1999 and 2000 OLs, was a transfer from Ohio U.  (How Ohio landed a player of his caliber, I have no idea.)

Eric Mayes transferred here, though from a school that didn't have football (Xavier of La.)

Eugene Germany transferred here from USC.

Seth

September 29th, 2010 at 7:52 AM ^

Michigan is notorious for not accepting transfer credits. I had a year-long battle to get credits from my study abroad program counted toward graduating at all, and then they were still underrated (I got 9 credits for a full load), and were counted as no better than flat AP credits (i.e. couldn't count toward a French Minor).

I'm talking about regular classes on the History of Parisian Architecture, French Grammar and Phonetics, and Medieval French Literature, all taught at the University of Paris IV (The Sorbonne), in French. I was taking French Language courses at the Harvard of Continental Europe <---- Not good enough for the University of Michigan's Foreign Language Department.

Now try getting your typical JUCO credits counted, or even an SEC school's credits.

Having a tough credit transfer system is one thing (Stanford, Cal, Northwestern), but that's not what holds us back. What holds us back is that we have a completely nonsensical credit transfer system that I believe purposely makes transferring to Michigan really hard. I think Michigan strongly values its freshman and sophomore programs, and is very testy about giving out degrees to people who don't go through the whole process. I think someone somewhere in the University sees this as a core value for the school. And I think that the athletic teams' inability to recruit transfers and JUCOs is an unfortunate side effect of this policy.

JeepinBen

September 29th, 2010 at 8:02 AM ^

"I think Michigan strongly values its freshman and sophomore programs, and is very testy about giving out degrees to people who don't go through the whole process."

I remember working on trying to study abroad for my Mech Eng degree, and was told that no engineering credits I took anywhere would help my degree. Nothing would transfer. M has (had?) the #2 ranked program in the country at the time and the schpeil I got was that "What if we have Michigan "graduates" who took some core classes elsewhere and then don't live up to the standards of the #2 program in the country" or some such response. If you're going to be a Michigan Grad, you're going to have done most if not all of your work at Michigan

Sextus Empiricus

September 29th, 2010 at 9:53 AM ^

they don't need to bolster the upper level enrollment.  Michigan enrolls >1200 transfer students a year with an incoming frosh class of 6300 in 2010.  This is balanced with attrition.  Total enrollment is >26000.

The credit system is based on course description which is very different in other countries.  If the course description doesn't match then the credit transfered will come in as an elective if at all.

It helps to plan ahead of time if you intend to transfer to Mich, as this sort of credit is case by case (except for CC in Michigan).  Contrast that to Nebraska which has pre-evaluated programs as far away as WA and FL.  Michigan just doesn't need the students like Nebraska or other schools do or they would be better at this.

Seth

September 29th, 2010 at 10:44 AM ^

The course descriptions thing -- ungh!

What they wanted to do was equate a class I took there with a class offered at Michigan. If they couldn't find a direct match (and you don't get to point it out nor have any input other than "please try again") you either get no credit, or just base credit.

What is horrible about this system is that it assumes the only education a Michigan grad should have is what is offered at Michigan. History of Parisian Architecture isn't offered by the U-M French Department. It is offered, however, at the Sorbonne because -- oh yes -- it's in Paris and the architects who built this city over the last 1,000 years all went to that school. Likewise, an intense, full-immersion advanced French Language program that's 4 seminar hours every day plus a phonetic period twice a week at the top Francophone school in the world is at least a 300-level French course, right? No, because Michigan doesn't even teach passe historique -- Michigan doesn't even have English courses that delve that deep into a language. So that whole thing counts the same as getting a 3 on your AP French test out of high school (which, by the way, I did).

I had a friend who studied abroad at Oxford and had her "The Works of C.S. Lewis," (or whatever) class turn into Michigan's famous freshman class on Fantasy and Science Fiction. Look, I took the Fantasy class and it was great, but hardly on par with the insights into argumentative theory, religion in the 20th century, etc. that you get from Oxford's class.

I'm ranting. I apologize.

Suffice to say, this still makes me pissed off. It doesn't make the school better, or the education of its students better. And most importantly, and most inexcusable, IT MAKES OUR FOOTBALL TEAM WORSE!

Bastards.

Sextus Empiricus

September 29th, 2010 at 11:42 AM ^

this is a choice by the coaches and the school.  If LC or RR or Bo even wanted to pull a Callahan (fill their squads with JCs) they could have or can. 

The reallity is there aren't a ton JCs that are better than our incoming freshmen at the positions of need (IMO).  However if RR went after this talent or the 3rd stringers @ USC he could get them in if he/they did their homework - I don't think that is the "answer" to our depth issues however.  They have obviously not done much admissions homework up to this point (Dorsey/Witty fails.)  If there is something other than bad luck going on  regarding our depth (and I don't think there is) - it isn't the transfer policy of the University fo Michigan.   They will look at these case by case.  I see no evidence they have been engaged - only evidence to the contrary.

It's not that it can't be done - it's that it isn't getting done.

Coldwater

September 29th, 2010 at 10:32 AM ^

wow, was that kid in over his head.  I'm not sure what Lloyd Carr saw in him.  It took about 1 quarter of his first game to get yanked out of the starting spot.  And then he spent his remaining career on special teams.