Question about last year's Ohio State game

Submitted by JeemtotheH on August 22nd, 2013 at 9:33 PM

I searched for an answer to this question on MGoBlog but didn't find anything...

It really bothered me that Ohio State was able to walk up to the line of scrimmage and call plays based on Michigan's defensive formation in the 2012 edition of The Game.  Ohio changed plays numerous times even after Michigan made adjustments and/or froze our sub-optimal alignment by having Braxton Miller go under center immediately and then stand there for the entire play clock.

Is this a common tactic?  I don't remember seeing a team run this as painfully effectively as Ohio did last year.  This wasn't a simple huddle, walk up to the line, then audible.  They literally saw the entire defensive setup, then adjusted their play at will for what seemed like the entire game.  Obviously you can only do this at home, and not on the road.

Any further thoughts about how to counter this move?  Ever see another team do this?  Wanted to ask before the 2013 season started.

Go Blue

 

 

Comments

Zone Left

August 22nd, 2013 at 9:39 PM ^

I'll never forgive Borges for not having a counter off of the Denard running play. Even if Denard tried to throw a duck to Funchess. Everyone in the stadium knew what was coming and the only reason he scored was terrible tackling on his long run.

OmarDontScare

August 22nd, 2013 at 10:38 PM ^

People get angry at me whenever I broach that topic on here. My blood starts to boil every time I hear the word Borges on MGoBlog. For some reason we wasted the great gameplan on Iowa (utilizing Denard as a decoy on some plays). It takes a real soft-headed idiot to fall in love with Denards fortunate 1st half TD run and telegraph every play in the 2nd half.

OSUs players were quoted after the game that they knew whether a play was a run or pass depending on if Denard was lined up at QB. So stupid.

pkatz

August 23rd, 2013 at 12:04 AM ^

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES BORGES

Blue in Yarmouth

August 23rd, 2013 at 8:23 AM ^

you aren't alone. I'm being honest here...It really seems to be the RR haters that can't stomach any critical comments levied against any of this staff, which is ironic considering how negative they were about RR.

I have decided to reserve judgement on AB until this season as he now has the players to run his system. If he has this team performing like he did last year in spite of that, I will say it is definitely time to cut ties with him and look for another OC.

I must say though, it pains me to say that as I genuinely think the guy is hilarious and love his pressers. Hopefully this season he will put all of our minds at ease and show what he can really do when he can run his offense of choice. 

 

Zone Left

August 22nd, 2013 at 9:36 PM ^

It's extremely common. That's why teams run a no huddle offense. They get to see alignment and personnel before picking a play.

The only way to counter it would be to somehow switch alignment again, now the offense's signals, or have a really loud crowd that prevents most audibles.

JeemtotheH

August 22nd, 2013 at 9:46 PM ^

Sort of, but I usually see no huddle offense along with high tempo.  Ohio got up to the line and just seemed to stand there for the entire play clock forcing our alignment to stay the same, keeping defensive players in their stance, and sometimes appearing to change their play more than once.

Who knows, maybe this wasn't something special on their part, but it really seemed effective.

elhead

August 23rd, 2013 at 12:59 AM ^

I didn't feel the sky fall during the Game last year, but like others I was just a little unhappy with Borges for his play calling. Remember that it was their defense, moreso than their offense, that adjusted to us in the second half. Then again, we did the same - it turned into a great defensive battle.

Danwillhor

August 22nd, 2013 at 9:42 PM ^

football is biased to the offense as they are action to the defenders reaction. Defense has to guess/react giving an inherent advantage to the offense. In the case off that game, our defense largely had their play called and set before osu did. That is more of an oddity than than the offense making real or fake adjustments in the manner you speak. Yet, our scheme largely worked as Miller is hard to contain anyway and I think our lack of audibles to every Miller action before the snap helped us (might not this year). Is what he did unusual? No. Most of it was posturing, it happens quite often and our staff knew it. It didn't have much effect on the outcome of the game, imo.

JeemtotheH

August 22nd, 2013 at 9:50 PM ^

interesting points.  

Care to elaborate about this comment?

"In the case off that game, our defense largely had their play called and set before osu did. That is more of an oddity than than the offense making real or fake adjustments in the manner you speak."

Does Mattison normally set the defense very quickly?  From years of watching football, it does seem like >90% of the time the offense lines up before the defense.

stephenrjking

August 22nd, 2013 at 11:29 PM ^

The offense lines up first, but the defensive play is already called. The defensive playcall requires certain adjustments depending upon the alignment they are facing, so the players line up according to their assignments.

In the case of up-tempo no-huddle spreads, the offense is already in a formation, but the play is not yet decided. Thus, the defense takes its assigned positions. In cases where there is a significant formation change, you will see the defense adjust accordingly.

Danwillhor

August 22nd, 2013 at 11:32 PM ^

I think (and it largely worked) that Mattison knew that Miller was dangerous but still a bit green to the offensive system being ran. In that sense I think he gave certain positions the ability to quietly adjust on the fly if they felt a real audible was being called. Yet, because if his inexperience and the importance of the game I think Mattison knew most pre-snap action by Miller was just void posturing. In that case it's simply a case of HS level DC'ing of guessing over run/pass and where based on personnel, hence the early calls and quiet trust in players to adjust if truly an audible. Basically, the osu offense/Miller did nothing new or special and our seeming lack of adjustments were due to not having to add opposed to most games where a defense will move and chatter. We just didn't see as much that game because it wasn't needed, imo. Defense didn't lose that game but I won't go into that lol.

MI Expat NY

August 23rd, 2013 at 10:27 AM ^

What are you talking about?  Almost every play under Rodriguez our QB would get up to the line, be set, maybe call a fake cadence, and all skill players would turn and look to the sideline for adjustments based on defensive alignment.  Yes, Rodriguez and Kelly generally like a faster pace of play than some of the other spread teams, but there are absolutely times when both coaches take full use of the playclock despite not huddling.  Just like all coaches, at times, run a no-huddle with very quick snaps.

JimBobTressel

August 22nd, 2013 at 10:07 PM ^

I am disgust. everything about that game. I nearly had a stroke from pure rage over playcalling in the second half. Borges, you better work miracles this season, goddamn it.

NOLA Wolverine

August 22nd, 2013 at 10:17 PM ^

Teams all around the country try to do this. One of the funnier instances (to me) was Texas A&M trying to do it to Alabama. Alabama just proceeded to change their look after A&M called something new in.

JeemtotheH

August 22nd, 2013 at 10:30 PM ^

I looked up the A&M twelfth man tradition that was mentioned at the beginning of this game...

pretty neat

http://aggietraditions.tamu.edu/team/12thman.html

Also, apparently Centre College in KY (involved in the twelfth man game) was a really good football team back in the 1920's and pulled off a huge upset of Harvard that was named "biggest upset in the first half of the 20th century" by the AP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_College#Football