Quarterback Depth Chart
I thought I would take a look at our Quarterback situation for this year and the coming years. After hearing that Jake Rudock would be joining the team our QB dilemma has all but gone away. We went from having one of if not the worst group of QBs in the B1G to having at least an average B1G quarterback. Here is what are QB situation looks like for this upcoming year:
1. Jake Rudock (SR.)
Will he be Andrew Luck? No. Can he be an Alex Smith stopgap while Harbaugh works on the other guys we have? Yes. He has 691 attempts on his career with a 60.35% completion rate. Rudock has thrown 34 TDs compared to 18 INT. These are not amazing numbers, but compared to what we have, they are a welcome sight. His YDs/ATT are not the great but this could be a result of the offense that they run at Iowa. This guy will start.
2. Shane Morris (JR.)
We all know the story with Shane, cannon for an arm, no finesse, stares down his receiver. Having a good back-up is important, but not crucial. I think that Shane can be serviceable as a reserve. He has game experience, including starting a few games. He has been in college for a long enough period of time to be conditioned, and should be more comfortable with the college game.
3. Wilton Speight (RS FR.)
Hoke did us a favor redshirting this guy. Now we can have a three deep that does not include a true freshman. Wilton can hover around the number 2 spot pushing Shane to make sure he never relaxes. Hopefully we won't have to worry about him playing this year.
4. Alex Malzone (FR.)
My opinion on Malzone differs from others. I do not like the idea of a true freshman getting real playing time this year. It would be beneficial for him to get a year under his belt. Getting used to the college life, getting stronger, and learning the playbook.
5. Zach Gentry (FR.)
I am pretty sure that he is really raw. Not sure he will have the tools to come in right away and compete enough to where he can get out of his redshirt.
John O'Korn (SO.)
Transfer.
This season can end up being way ahead of our original expectations for this position.
Now for 2016:
1. Shane Morris (SR.)
If he develops well, with his tools, he will be the starter next year.
2. Alex Malzone (RS FR.)
High floor, lowish ceiling. Malzone is the safe bet to start because he will not be a disaster.
3. John O'Korn (RS SO.)
He has already played at the college level and with a year under his belt he could be a sleeper bet to start next year.
4. Wilton Speight (RS SO.)
I feel bad for Speight, he is most likely going to get buried under all of the guys we have at this position.
5. Zach Gentry (RS FR.)
Many think Gentry will jump up to 2 or 3 in his second year. However, I think that he will still be raw and may even switch to TE especially if he gets buried on the depth chart.
6. Freshman
Redshirt.
Not sure this is very accurate.
All reports indicate that Malzone is probably ahead of Shane at this point and Speight is far behind those two. We have no idea what we're getting with Gentry and Rudock still has to come in and compete. Even assuming Rudock starts, the rest of your list seems unlikely unless practice reports are just entirely off.
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Well, I think we can put at least SOME stock in them. What the OP posted goes against pretty much every aspect of the practice reports. The best QB in spring as been Malzone, then Morris and then Speight. So it goes against basically all the evidence we have to make this kind of a chart.
Could it change? Sure. Maybe Speight will be our starter. I don't know. But the evidence we have no suggests that would be a long shot...even for him to be the #3.
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I was not saying that Malzone is behind them and that is why he is being redshirted. I was trying to say that because he is not the clear number 1, that it would make sense to redshirt him instead of wasting it on him being a back-up.
Actually, the most recent reports are that Morris has been 1, Malzone 2 and Speight (indeed) a distant third.
It depends on the site. Most at least have Morris and Malzone battling for the spring starting spot -- each having good and bad days. To have either behind Speight at this point would be going against the spring evidence so far.
Morris has gotten the start in some of the practices, but so has Malzone. I did see some articles on scout from Sam Webb stating that Morris has also been pulled from his starting spot multiple times this spring and Malzone has been put in above him.
I'm also weighting the fact that Malzone was picked before Morris for the spring game draft.
Even so, Speight is in the wrong spot in the OP's ranking.
The mock draft theory is flawed. If you use that reasoning, you can technically say that Morris was picked by the Offensive Coordinator.
Which is why I wouldn't call it a done deal. But there has to be some weight in being the first picked at your position. I'm not sure who the coaches are of each teams but I would guess that at least some offensive coaches and some defensive coaches are on each team.
Did they make the order of when the players got drafted public? If so, I'd love a link or URL to take a look at that if you found one.
There were some donors at the draft and they tweeted out some of the order. Not sure if anyone has made a full on list of the draft order yet.
Gotta think it's Morris and Rudock battling for QB1. Shane has the highest ceiling of the QBs on the team right now sans Gentry IMO. Shane hasn't really had the best coaching... until now.
Pre-draft, most reports had shifted to Morris ahead of Malzone, albeit slightly.
Considering the trajectory (Week 1 of Spring he was considered to be lagging behind the other 2), it's very possible he ends up the cream of our current crop of QBs (Rudock notwithstanding).
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...Or Rudock makes a leap with improved coaching and improves from servicable to very good.
Either Rucock or any other QB functioning as a better QB this year than Rudock was over the last two is fine by me!
Rucock?
He's an indie QB, you've probably never heeard of him.
He's got another QB named Rucock transfering in.
Does anybody know what Auerbach's opinion of Shane Morris might be?
Malzone should be #2. I too don't like the idea of a true freshman getting playing time but he's the only other competent QB we have besides Rudock (Speight hasn't developed enough yet and Shane is just awful). And there IS precedent for it (see Henne and Tate). Malzone is also much more polished than most guys are coming in as true freshmen and can be trusted with the football if Rudock has to come out:
Not sure how you can use High School tape to say he is more polished.
Morris has been awful, but there's no way you can convince me that he's been given anything close to an opportunity to succeed. He was thrown into a situation last year where he had a ton of expectations with very little opportunity to be prepared. He may have been able to know the playbook/know the offense, but it seems like all the eggs were in Devin's basket due to his experience and athleticism. With an off season of coaching under a really great developer of QB talent, I'm anxious to see how he looks in the Spring game.
That's not to say you aren't right....not yet anyway. I want to see how he does once he's properly coached. Last few seasons were a dumpster fire for QB development.
Does anyone think the previous staff knew their asses from holes in the ground when it came to QB development? Every one they coached went backwards.
Shane could turn out to be awesome with some Harbaugh coaching. I'm not saying he will, but it is entirely possible IMO.
Our O-line was also a dumpster fire for most of the Hoke regeime. Devin could have been a superstar if he wasn't running for his life. Once you start hearing footstep and are shell shocked your confidence dissipates. I hope our O-line is better this year and if they are, I think Harbaugh will have 2 or 3 of these guys prepared to be servicable or even good.
Very true in 2013 but I wouldnt say his whole regime.
It was pretty darn good in 2011, quite average in 2012, horrid in 2013, and below average in 2014. But pass protect outside of a few very good defenses (MSU for example) I thought was actually quite decent in the 2nd half of 2014 (run blocking not so much). That said Devin was shell shocked by that stage and broken.
I don't think Morris had any excuse in 2014 Minnesota to look like Russ Bellomy. He had not been shell shocked. He had 1 game in the bowl where they gave him a ball control scheme and he did ok with it. He had some garbage time earlier that year against patsies. The OL did not contribute to him not looking like a backup MAC QB vs Minnesota.
It is one thing to go 13 of 27 for 150 yards and 1 TD and 2 INT. He was not even within sniffing distance of that sort of performance - it was Russ Bellomy 2nd half Nebraska. That is not all on coaching. He looked overwhlemed by the situation - other guys in other programs have come in with less experience as RS FR and done fine in a similar situation (1 year in the program).
Shane's QBR that game was 5.4. So I guess it's all relative.
Russ went in for 2 passes v PSU and had a 1.5 rating. I can't pull up individual 2012 data by game but Russ' entire year QBR rating was 1.1 for 2012.
So you are right. Somehow Russ even "beat" that performance.
So Nuss didnt know how to coach QBs now?
I am not a fan of the last coaching staff but I dont think Nuss is an idiot. Some of this you eventually have to put on the players.
was only here for one year and the offence was terrible. Maybe that was a Nuss thing, a Hoke thing, a young OL thing, or some combination of several factors. But you can't deny that Devin looked much worse in 2014 than 2013.
Maybe Nuss is a great QB coach. i honestly don't know. But the offense in general looked better under Borges.
But I was told Nuss was a savior a year ago. Strange.
I think he is a good not great coach - anyone at Bama can look great. But he had a decent track record prior to that with QBs. I dont think he got dumb overnight. But his work here seemed poor IMO - not just with Devin but with how bad Shane looked when given a chance.
But let's look at the players themselves sometimes as well. Other guys go into similar situations of duress and look ok. Again all I am saying is "look ok" not be Cardale Jones. Neither of our QBs even looked ok.
Shane's problems haven't been that he's been given an opportunity to succeed. And no offense, but the whole opportunity to succeed excuse is bullshit and probably goes against every fiber of Harbaugh's values. You're a player on the team, you have the same playbook, resources, and practice time as everyone else. You make your own opportunities so that when the time comes for your number to get called, you can succeed.
So I'm not buying the whole Shane hasn't been given an opportunity to succeed nonsense. He's been year two years. That's plenty of time.
Shane's issue is the same issue he's had since high school. He locks in on a receiver, he struggles with accuracy, and tries to rifle the ball to the receiver whether he's 30 yards away or 5 yards away. The fact that he is still struggling with those issues would lead me to think that he has in fact been given the opportunity to succeed, but hasn't done what he needs to in order to fix them and keeps reverting to those bad habits.
Maybe Harbuagh fixes those, or maybe he doesn't. But Shane isn't going to get any special treatment and will have the same opportunity to succeed as every other QB on the roster. Its up to him to make the most of it. Same as before.
you don't buy any of what I said regarding the lack of development? I don't flat out disagree with what you said, but if you can tell me that any of the QB's on the team had any opportunities to be successful under that coaching, that system, that O-line, then I'll tell you you're wrong. Gardner got by on his athleticism and the fact that he could throw a fairly decent ball...that and he had a couple go-to receivers that got him out of jams when he needed it. But given the lack of talent at RB, the lack of talent at O-line (lack of developed talent, that is) none of our QBs were successful. With the right coaching, I think Morris could be a ton better than what we've seen on the field.
I wholeheartedly agree the previous staff's coaching, gameplanning, and development was hot garbage. No argument there.
But, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Shane had the same opportunities as every other QB on the roster. And there seems to be this desire to give him the benefit of the doubt, or create excuses for him, or whatever you want to call it just because he was a 5-star QB. I personally, don't care about any of that. He's about to be one of 5 playing time eligible scholarship QBs on the roster in the fall. Whatever QB wins the job will do so because he made the most of his opportunities and talent.
and I'm not fundamentally disagreeing, but you hit the nail on the head with the term "benefit of the doubt." I don't want to make excuses, but I'll grant him the room to improve with the right coaching.
And don't get me wrong, I sure as hell hope Shane blossoms under this new coaching staff. He's seemingly a nice kid, and I wish the best for him. And having him be neck and neck for that starters job would be great for this season, and even better for next season.
Given what we saw on the field, yes.
You are correct that those are some of the concerns with Morris. You are correct that he has had opportunities. But I disagree with some things.
First, people keep bringing up what amounts to seeing Morris in two games and discounting him because of it. One was as a true FR. The other was as a true SO in which he split starters snaps during the week. Besides the bowl game, Morris has never been "the guy". That can help or it can hurt. It can help in that the defense doesn't necessarily know some of your strengths and weaknesses and how the offense adapts. It can hurt because you haven't played in the heat of a game, you haven't gotten starters reps with the receivers you'll be playing with. I take the game experience with Morris with a grain of salt. It could mean a lot of things, but really knowing what it means is more difficult to discern.
Second, I don't think Morris (or Gardner for that matter) had a good feel for Nussmeier's offense, quite frankly. Both were late with their throws. And I was there in the Minnesota game, Minnesota was jumping routes and leaving very small windows to throw into. Minnesota actually had a pretty good defensive backfield (they got beat a bit in non-conf, but only one team after the 3rd game of the season threw for over 225, and Mizzou for 97). Michigan's receivers struggled getting separation all year anyway, but in the Minnesota game it was really bad. I was there in person, and the windows were small. The throws would have had to be made with great timing, even with Shane's arm strenght, and they were a little late and that's all she wrote.
I just don't think what we've seen of Shane really tells the whole story one way or another. He may never correct some of his issues, but I also think he isn't nearly the guy we've seen play for Michigan so far. Some guys take some time to develop. A lot of QBs aren't very good as under classman, especially when they aren't getting starters reps.
Here's where a lot of my Shane disbelief comes from: I saw him in person a ton as a recruit. I watched him at three Elite 11 camps, the full week of practice and games at The Opening, and the week of practices for Under Armour All American Game. Only the UAAAG came after he had mono problems, and he was clearly off as a result of that so I'll give him a pass there.
But all of the other issues he displayed in those other camps and settings are the exact same issues he's displayed on the field at Michigan. Even super basic ones like throw with some touch and don't rifle the ball at a guy 5 yards away. So while you're right that's its only been a handful of appearances, the fact that some of those basic issues still are issues is what makes me think its not so much the coaching, but Shane. Because I know for a fact he's been told not to do that at every single camp and practice I saw him at.
It certainly could be Shane, and yes, he's had those issues all along. He's always had elite arm talent and had a long ways to go with the rest of the game. Sometimes the rest of the game takes time. It takes starters reps. It takes game experience. Remember, these are issues that he's always had, that he needs to break, and not just break in practice but break in high pressure situations.
I think it comes down to the fact that he was an underclassman and people are already writing him off as a guy that can't be fixed. Perhaps a new perspective from Harbaugh helps. Perhaps more reps finally gets everything to click. But it's hard for something that is a habbit to click for guys. Some get it earlier, some get it later. I just don't think we've seen enough of Shane to date to determine one way or another as far as next year or the year after that.
Wasn't Gardner on the sideline for most of the 2014 spring practices? I thought Morris was getting boatloads of reps with the ones last spring.
That doesn't mean he was 'the guy' in the fall but most backup QB's probably don't get the opportunity to rep an entire spring with the starters like Morris did in 2014.
No opportunity to succeed? How many games should we put him before he gets his "chance?"
See Jones, Cardale.
guys like Cardale Jones are all over the place, right? UM's QB recruiting and depth prior to Harbaugh was disgustingly insufficient. I'm no Hoke hater, but his recruiting at the most important position on the field was turrible.
Cardale Jones is an extreme. But asking for relative competence is not. Again a day like 14-25, 150 yards, and looking like a viable QB is not asking a lot of a guy in his 2nd year. That's not Cardale Jones - that's dude who was ready to play football and learning on the job. Rich Rod had a 2nd year QB ready at Arizona who sat out his entire freshman year, Sumlin had Kenny Hill ready as a 2nd year QB ready who sat out his entire freshman year. I can go down a list of many RS FR who at least look like they belonged on a college football field in their 2nd year. Shane was more involved with UM in his 1st year than those type of guys who were redshirted. And didnt look like he knew what football was.
Jones is an extreme but allowing for that Morris performance and saying its all Nuss fault is a cop out too to the other extreme.