Possibility of a Larger than Expected 2015 Class?

Submitted by Drew_Silver on

The current conventional wisdom has UofM pulling between 12-15 recruits for this cycle.

Does anyone expect Harbaugh to go higher maybe up to 18-20 range?  Possibly granting some grey-shirt scholarship offers?  Or preferred walk on status?  

off topic question: Does Ty Wheatley Jr get free or discounted admission as his father is a UofM employee?

I know everyone hates the idea of oversigning, but isn't it very likely there will be some level of attrition once spring / fall practices begin in earnest?  I would not be schocked to see 3-5 kids leave the program in a normal year, let alone a year in which there is a coaching change.

 

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The_Mad Hatter

January 22nd, 2015 at 4:27 PM ^

I can remember 2nd string QB's getting a lot more playing time than during the RR/Hoke years.  I would think that more playing time could only be good for a QB's development.

Then again, OSU can pick a random student out of the stands and have them contending for a Heisman within 2 weeks.  So poor coaching was probably the bigger problem.

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JoeyFootball19

January 22nd, 2015 at 2:58 PM ^

In most cases the best QB on the roster isn't a Freshemen. That statement is true. But with this Michigan roster I can almost guarantee a Freshmen will start. I've been watching Shane play for 10 years. He doesn't have it mentally. 1 of 3 Freshman Qb's will start. Hopefully the Redshirt wins out.

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sasmjjsly

January 22nd, 2015 at 2:29 PM ^

With all due respect, Bellomy should be thanked for his effort and gently shown the door. No way that guy is competing to start and no way would he be the third starter with Speight transferring. If Gentry is signed, the battle will be between him and Speight. With Morris tailing closely behind.

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west2

January 22nd, 2015 at 2:43 PM ^

but why the aversion to over-signing? Seems as though it solves some problems with depth issues and unforeseen injuries. I am aware that the bgten discourages the practice and that its rampant in the SEC. But why doesn't M and the rest of the bgten just allow it and level the playing field?

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cm2010

January 22nd, 2015 at 2:50 PM ^

When a coach walks into a player's house and tells his parents he will take care of their son like one of his own for the next four years, and then reneges on that promise because he refused to count to 85 correctly, it says some poor things about the type of man that runs your program.

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SECcashnassadvantage

January 22nd, 2015 at 3:07 PM ^

They can now transfer and communicate easily to get into a school. Life isn't fair and the coach teaches winning. Every coach does it a little that is in the top 25 at the year end. Work your ass off and you stay.

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cm2010

January 22nd, 2015 at 3:26 PM ^

It's one thing if the player who is cut is a second or third year player and has advance notice (I still think it's scummy). It's an entirely different thing when a recruit is offered a spot, signs, moves into the dorm, then is told they don't have a scholarship (hey there Les!). Nothing has changed since they signed, and they won't have an easy time finding another school to transfer to because everyone else is filled up.

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Drew_Silver

January 22nd, 2015 at 3:08 PM ^

I doubt one person on this board would be upset if a kid in engineering flunked out of school bc/ he couldn't hack the math.  You did your best and you just didn't make it

I really don't see a dinstinction between that and a kid who doesn't hack if on the football field.  

I AM NOT SAYING WE SHOULD CUT GUYS, but what I am saying is that sometimes guys just don't hack it.  And the coach needs to have the ability to get that kid out of his program.

IT HAPPENS EVERY DAY ACROSS AMERICA

18 year old kids are prone to making mistakes or over estimating their abilities, thats life.  

 

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cm2010

January 22nd, 2015 at 3:21 PM ^

When you sign up for school, if you don't make the grades, you're out. That's understood from the beginning. However, many coaches make the type of promises to parents that they will 1) teach them to be a man, 2) help them obtain an education, and 3) become a good football player. If a coach gives that promise, then yanks a scholarship solely because a kid is third or fourth on the depth chart, then that is dishonest.

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Proclus

January 22nd, 2015 at 4:20 PM ^

The problem with over-signing is that it creates a situation in which the program has to cut players regardless of whether they are, in fact, "hacking it." The analogy of players who fail to see significant playing time with academic scholarship recipients whose grades are slipping is pretty silly; there are plenty of requirements established for football players to maintain their scholarships, and players get cut for them often. The practice that is objectionable is cutting players merely because the coaches want to free up scholarship space for someone they think would be better. Not only does it leave players who were fulfilling the conditions of their scholarships out in the cold, but it undercuts the whole purpose of the scholarship cap by allowing teams to recruit above the caps and take only the best players after they've had time to assess their performance.

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Nick

January 22nd, 2015 at 5:03 PM ^

Thats on the coach for misevaluating a kids character or talent.  If the player broke no rules, he gets to keep his scholarship.

Those are the guidelines the by the book coaches keep, and any coach who operates under a different premise unevens the playing field and obatins a competitive advantage.

Bottom line is this.... player broke no rules, is academically eligible and wants to stay on scholarship, then guess what, he gets to keep his scholarship.

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west2

January 22nd, 2015 at 3:37 PM ^

when students are accepted as an undergrad at M that was with the understanding that 1-you maintain at least a minimum grade point and 2-you pay tuition. So when a recruit hears promises of playing time its also with the understanding that a minimum level of athletic achievement is met. So what happens when a regular student doesn't make minimum grades? Academic probation and eventual suspension. Why shouldn't this standard apply to student-athletes regarding their athletic performance? Over signing simply protects an athletic program of which millions of university dollars are invested.

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tolmichfan

January 22nd, 2015 at 4:54 PM ^

To me your argument for cutting players just doesn't add up to me. This is how over signing to me would apply to the "school side".

Let's say the engineering school takes a kid and he finishes fifth in his class his junior year. This would be equivalent on the football side of being a second string junior. So would it be ok for the engineering school to kick him out of school to let in a freshman that scored one point higher than him on his entrants exam?

To me it's just plain wrong. These players are not getting cut because they are failing out of football. They are being replaced by players the coaches think will be better.



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west2

January 22nd, 2015 at 7:07 PM ^

And it's certainly how things seem to play out at some of the SEC schools.    I guess where I was going with this was more in the vein of putting a Michigan spin on over-signing and when recruits pan out and perform to a minimum standard such as attain the 2 deep rotation or standout on special teams by his junior year for a 4 star recruit then he maintains his scholarship.  Or some form of milestone agreed upon at the onset of a recruits M career.   Obviously any merit system for athletic scholarships relies somewhat on the integrity of the individuals administrating it.  As we know all too well in the college FB game there are always those looking to skirt the rules to gain an advantage.  

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DrewGOBLUE

January 23rd, 2015 at 2:38 AM ^

If a player was continuously giving very little effort to football while also demonstrating a really bad attitude, I could maybe see the rationale to revoke the guy's scholarship. But obviously you can't make the assumption this would happen enough for a reason to over-sign in the first place.

At the end of the day, though, cutting a kid who hasn't performed as well as people hoped is nothing short of unethical.

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Perkis-Size Me

January 22nd, 2015 at 3:04 PM ^

Last I heard it was still going to remain a small class, around 15 or so. That may have changed with the departure of Funchess and Ferns, but not much more than those two extra scholarships. So maybe its up to 17. But at this point, I don't see any more than that unless we have guys start leaving in the next two weeks.

But 2016, from my understanding, is likely going to be a much bigger class.

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Nick

January 22nd, 2015 at 4:59 PM ^

Not the 85 overall cap.  You cant backdate your way out of counting up total guys on scholarship for the 15 football season.

The 85 total cap is the limiting factor here. 85 minus 73 equals 12 total scholarships currently available for the 15 class pending further attrition.

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mdonley

January 22nd, 2015 at 4:19 PM ^

It's possible before next year we could lose Gant,Barrs,Dukes,Jones,Fox and one or two of the running backs. Not to mention Bellomy may not be invited back as a fifth year. Hoke took a lot of suspect kids while taking a lot of mid to high rated kids. He got some supers (Green,Kalis,Peppers,Pipkins) but he also recruited some kids who weren't Michigan caliber.

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RLARCADIACA

January 22nd, 2015 at 9:59 PM ^

One of my sons HS friends mother works for USC Medical Center as a Physician. Her son had he been accepted at USC would have gone Tuition free. He however was accepted to and choose to go to Baylor where he attends Tuition free because of reciprocal arrangements between such private schools as USC and Baylor for children of each respective schools employees.

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Wolverines_Lio…

January 22nd, 2015 at 10:42 PM ^

I think what likely happens is that the staff recruits as if the walk-ons won't get schollys and the 3 back-up offensive 5th year guys won't be there ( RB , KH , JH ). That gives us 18 spots to play with. With the sheer volume of offers being thrown around, they are recruitng as if they have somehere near that amount of spots open.

My best guess at the Michigan Dream Board :

7. Iman Marshall

8. Mike Weber

9. Chris Clark

10. Roquan Smith

11. Damon Arnette

12. Ryan Davis

13. Zach Gentry

14. Chris Williamson

15. John Kelly

16. Reuben Jones

17. Pat Allen

18. Ty Wheatley Jr

 

If they had the chance , I think they would take those 18 guys (12 + 6 already committed) and say bye to the three aforementioned 5th year guys, and not extend scholarships to the Glasgows and Kerridges for this year. When there is the inevitable attrition in the winter/spring , they could re-visit the situation , with the Glasgows and Kerridge being first up, and those 5th year guys after that, for schollys.

Obviously they are not going to get all 12 of those guys. Kelly has already committed to Tennessee and several of those guys are going to be tough pulls. So this is a moot point and I think the Glasgows and Kerridge will get their scholarships. But if all 12 of those guys did want to join this class, there is technically room for them and I think Michigan would bring them aboard.

 

An interesting dilemma I think is if 2 of Snyder, Williams and Pickard commit ? Does Clark still have his offer? I would think yes but that would be 3 TE/FBs in a pretty small class for a team already decenlty stocked at the position.

 

 


Edit: Forgot about McMillon. Gotta think that if he wants a spot in the class he gets one too. Not sure which of the Top 18 I would bump out for him though.

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