Positive Outlook on Future Without Woolfolk
"OMG WERE SCREWED!!!1!!1!one!!!"
OK, folks, let's all take a deep breath. It looks like Troy Woolfolk is out for the season, which obviously sucks. It is by no means, however, the end of the season, or the world, as some here apparently are reacting.
If this was a Lloyd Carr-era defensive scheme, which was heavily dependent on corners with outstanding man-coverage ability, we might be monumentally screwed. There's a reason that, in that scheme, our national championship coincided with possibly our best secondary ever. Three of the four players in that secondary were all-Big Ten that year, and the fourth (Tommy Hendricks) had a 5 year NFL career.
Now, obviously, we are in the GERG era. We will run a zone-heavy 3-3-5, with cornerbacks generally covering deep areas in a Cover 3 setup. Part of the reason that Warren left (and maybe part of the reason he fell out of the draft) is that this defense no longer accentuated his cover-corner strengths. The days of a defense depending so heavily on a single Charles Woodson-Leon Hall type player to shut down a big-time wide receiver are gone. Covering receivers is more of a team effort now and less of an individual one. We do not need a shut-down corner. We need Cullen Christian, Courtney Avery, or whoever else to have at least average cover skills and the ability to tackle.
Let's also remember that we play in the Big Ten, where apparently Scott Tolzien and Rick Six the Stanzimerican are among the top QBs. If we can stop the run, we'll be ok. Remember, the 2006 defense was so strong largely because they didn't come up against anyone that could throw until the last two games of the season.
This is not the end of the season. Stop the funeral preparations. 17.5 days to kickoff. Go Blue. Beat UConn.
August 17th, 2010 at 10:38 PM ^
Someone with common sense!
August 17th, 2010 at 10:39 PM ^
Give me some of that Kool-Aide! I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but there is no doubt this is a huge blow to our defense and some people are going to see the big challenge that we now face. Let them get it out their systems.
August 18th, 2010 at 9:10 AM ^
Freshman CBs are just too unreliable. The fact is, if what the OP said is true then Cissoko would have had a completely different experience than what he did last year (before he had his off the field issues that is). Did the OP just completely block out the Notre Dame game? How many times did our DBs get burned last year in this system? It's not as easy as he is making it out to sound. This is a devastating blow to our defense. I would love for his kool-aid to overflow into my cup but my reason and knowledge of football just won't allow it.
August 17th, 2010 at 10:39 PM ^
CB's are terrible tacklers though and thats what scares me. I agree that if we step up in the trenches it shouldn't be that bad, but we can't lose Sr. leadership in a young sencondary.
August 17th, 2010 at 10:44 PM ^
No, certain players are terrble tacklers, not certain positions and classes.
August 17th, 2010 at 10:48 PM ^
I have to disagree. I considered myself good against the run and if I couldn't meet someone with momentum, it became a tripping game. You can't win most wrestling matches with 220 lb running backs. At best you can wrangle and hope for help.
August 18th, 2010 at 12:14 AM ^
I love that guy!
August 19th, 2010 at 9:30 PM ^
That is more saying that it is a mismatch in regards to a corner one on one with a RB, the post I replied to claimed that FRESHMAN corners are bad tacklers.
Plus, a corner not being great at tackling a RB 30 lbs bigger than him doesnt make him a bad tackler, just means its a mismatch due to the size difference.
August 17th, 2010 at 10:40 PM ^
Not gonna lie...when I saw your thread title I was coming in to bitch about this thread, but it was pleasantly lucid and reasonable.
The zone can help mask some deficiencies at corner...and this team was always going to be about the offense and the defensive front...not the cbs.
August 18th, 2010 at 12:44 AM ^
were discussing this exact issue, and I suggested (this is going to sound much more pessimistic than it actually is) that there are striking similarities between the Lions and our Wolverines this year.
Both have significant questions behind the front 4 (or 3) on defense, while the offenses should have significant firepower if everyone progresses at the expected rate. I am hoping, in both cases, that the scheme and talent up front on defense can help to mitigate some of the depth, talent, and experience issues with the linebackers and secondary. If they can get to the opposing QB, all of the sudden young CBs have a much better chance to stay with receivers and cover them adequately. Plug gaps, and our LBs have much less ground to cover to make plays. I know this is simplistic, but it is the sign of most good defenses, in both college and the NFL.
Obviously, both UM and Detroit will need to score some points to win. On the offensive side, both teams have plenty of talent at the skill positions to do so. I feel that our talent up front (at UM) is ready to shine and allow our backs to find some room, as well as provide our QBs with some time to find receivers. If the Lions OL can gel, I feel that Stafford (also a 2nd year QB) and the Lions' backs/receivers can do the same.
Again, this is obviously very simplistic, but I thought it was interesting. It really boils down to my E-pinion that the trenches can help to cover for a lack of talent and experience in the back on defense, as well as accentuate good talent at the skill positions on offense. Does anyone else see this parallel?
August 17th, 2010 at 10:42 PM ^
We're also exchanging a 6'1", 195 lb. cornerback who could stop the run and pass for potentially a couple freshmen who are either 167 lbs. (Avery) or admittedly poor tacklers (Christian). Even if it doesn't hurt us much against the pass (which it will), it still hurts us against the run, too.
August 17th, 2010 at 10:45 PM ^
Losing Woolfork is the last thing we needed.
August 17th, 2010 at 10:48 PM ^
Well, if the linebackers somehow continue to regress, and the defensive front is less stout than advertised, we were going to be in some trouble with regards to the run no matter which corner back played.
Edit: And the last thing this team needs is Denard Robinson being injured. Losing Woolfolk is a hit to an already suspect DB corps, but not the devastating, season ending, career killing blow it's being made out to be.
August 17th, 2010 at 10:51 PM ^
"Some trouble" is better than "lots of trouble."
August 17th, 2010 at 10:48 PM ^
Gets beyond the line at all.
August 17th, 2010 at 11:46 PM ^
flaw in your logic here, or in your statement at the linked post that this injury has probably cost us one to two wins, but there isn't. The same people around here who talked about how JT Turner must have sucked because he didn't crack the two deep after his red-shirt year are now telling us that guys like Rogers, who has seen only spot duty in three prior years, and true freshmen are going to be awesome this season. I won't bet a dime on that happening.
August 18th, 2010 at 1:09 AM ^
...are rarely primary run-stoppers, especially in today's game. Where the poor tackling hurts are in the quick passing game, screen game, run-throws, etc. And if we're now going to be playing a lot of zone (esp. 3-deep), the corners will need to tackle well against the quick game.
If corners are missing tackles in the run game, it's usually where a 5-10 yard gain becomes a 15-25 yard gain. And, yes, that will be very bad.
August 17th, 2010 at 10:42 PM ^
But we still gave up a gazillion points...
August 17th, 2010 at 10:53 PM ^
I think that one of the freshmen corners will stand up and fill the void. Next Man Up.
August 17th, 2010 at 11:06 PM ^
Ummm... informative thread title?
EDIT: Gratzi.
August 17th, 2010 at 11:01 PM ^
August 17th, 2010 at 11:07 PM ^
plays strong and gets a consistent rush on the QB it will help the secondary out a ton. If the DL doesn't, then we have inexperienced corners on an island.
August 17th, 2010 at 11:13 PM ^
I'm glad to see some optimism. Even though every positive thread holds way more negative views in response.
August 17th, 2010 at 11:24 PM ^
A little off topic, but other than Brown and Holloway, what other corners have we been looking at/ offered?
August 17th, 2010 at 11:27 PM ^
But the first two games are against UConn (veteran QB) and ND (passing spread). Yikes.
August 17th, 2010 at 11:32 PM ^
...maybe RR should have the team practice virtually, with NCAA Football 11 'til the season starts.
August 17th, 2010 at 11:49 PM ^
Is the smartist man on this thread! Pay close attention.
August 17th, 2010 at 11:51 PM ^
I have to say I think we'll be fine.
August 18th, 2010 at 12:09 AM ^
Just maybe THE TEAM will step up as a whole,this is it all or nothing and the players know that.CC will come in a play good.and we will be alright.
August 18th, 2010 at 12:14 AM ^
Finally, someone who thinks like me. Wolf will be missed, but he isn't the backbone. He'll still be on the sideline for support, but for sheer talent, Cullen has potential to be great. Let the kid play, then if Wolf gets a medical redshirt if the injury is bad enough, the secondary will be set next year, and depth after this year will not be an issue. If he is out for a couple months, Cullen will get some good reps in as the starter, then can be a pretty good backup and start next year.
The world is not ending, if anything, this could be a blessing in disguise. I feel really bad for Wolf, but what's done is done.
August 18th, 2010 at 1:16 AM ^
It could have been worse! If Troy had his injury two weeks from now just before the UConn, the emotional tidal wave would have no time to subside. At least this way, there is a chance for the coaches and team members to get over the emotional letdown, and begin to reorganize the secondary to compete and win.
August 18th, 2010 at 1:15 AM ^
It could have been worse! If Troy had his injury two weeks from now just before the UConn, the emotional tidal wave would have no time to subside. At least this way, there is a chance for the coaches and team members to get over the emotional letdown, and begin to reorganize the secondary to compete and win.
At least this year, we have four new freshman with good ratings, even though, it is somewhat scary to see freshman starting. You do what you have to do.
Even though J T Turner and Cissoko had sizable ratings in HS, they did not perform on the field well. No reason to expect them this the change, and Cissoko is indefinitely unavailable through no fault of RichRod.
Maybe, it is time to see how Greg Robinson and staff responds and gets everyone to rally round and get the defense together.
There are 8 Cornerbacks and 17 safeties listed on the roster at MGoBlue.com for 2010. There are players out, who play defensive back, and this is a defining moment for this year. Better to have a healthy freshman than an injured upperclassmen, or even a freshman, like Tate Forcier last year, who couldn't act effectively as a leader on field.
August 18th, 2010 at 1:28 AM ^
Consider that an opposing team offense would probably throw away from Troy Woolfolk as a leader in the secondary, putting more pressure on J T Floyd and db's.
Now without Woolfolk, the secondary will appear more equally vulnerable, and GERG should adapt his 3-3-5 to be flexible, and get things organized so people know what they're doing.
Whatever the case, avoid the zone-permit defense of last year!
August 18th, 2010 at 1:59 AM ^
Agree with most of this, except that Carr's defenses really didn't play man that often. That was one of my continual frustrations with Jim Herrmann. He had the corners to play bump-and-run but rarely trusted them to do so. In '97, Woodson was too good for him not to, but otherwise his default scheme was zone. 2005 was downright comical in that we'd come out every week in a soft zone and give up a quick score to open the game, then play man (though still pretty soft) and play better D after that.
Anyway, I don't think Warren left because of the scheme. He was always rumored to be a 3-and-out guy.
August 18th, 2010 at 6:28 AM ^
I think we will be fine. Losing one player does not kill a season. Woolf will still be there on the sidelines and in practice to give his leadership to the freshman. My prediction for the season has not wavered because of Troy's injury.