pete thamel's nytimes tressel article: three marquee jobs?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/31/sports/ncaafootball/buckeyes-trials-w…
Ohio State, even with probation all but inevitable, will always sit alongside Florida and Texas as one of the country’s three marquee jobs.
Where does that list come from? What about Michigan, Notre Dame, Alabama, USC, etc.?
Edit: I changed the title to attempt to clear up some misunderstandings based on people's apparent inability to read and comprehend simple English sentences. Thamel very clearly states that there are 3 marquee jobs, which he identifies as OSU, Florida, and Texas. I made this thread to raise a question about what basis he has for that statement. I mentioned Michigan, along with multiple other schools, to provide some examples of what I thought he'd missed. If you can contribute to the discussion, please do. If you can't comprehend simple English sentences, please note that many others have already weighed in with the patently false claim that Thamel didn't purport to give an exhaustive list. Thanks.
It's a sports writer being stupid. This is an old argument that's been refuted.
Alabama and USC are marquee jobs.
NYTimes is pretty crappy when it comes to college football coverage. Most of their audience doesn't care.
I'm assuming in-state talent? But you're right that USC would be on that list as well. Sounds like someone who just wanted a better line than the facts allowed.
Obviously Illinois does not have MGoBlog talent available in-state. Apologies for the double post, ect. ect.
I'll go ahead and make this a (very somewhat) useful post and add my two cents for marquee jobs, in no particular order:
- Michigan
- Ohio State
- Penn State
- Nebraska
- USC
- Texas
- Oklahoma
- Miami
- FSU
- Florida
- Alabama
- Notre Dame
Solid list, except I don't think PSU belongs.
I'd disagree (obviously). They own PA, which is one of the two most talented northern states, and they're right in the middle of the pack on that list in all time wins. At 811, they're 6/12, ahead of Oklahoma, Alabama, USC, Florida, Miami and FSU. Also, I don't have the numbers here, but their ratings are on par with the likes of Nebraska; they have the national interest level to be on the list.
Paterno hasn't been doing great lately, but it's not like we can talk too much given the state of the program since Bo died.
Tennessee?
They are for now, but they have to stop clowning soon.
I left off both Tennessee and Georgia. Maybe it has to do with my age (born in '89) but I can't remember a time when they were truly dominant programs, and they don't have the ND type history to fall back on. Also, IMO, Kiffin didn't do Tennessee's prestige any favors.
Both could easily be on the list, it wasn't so much a slap at either as much as wanting an easy number, which a dozen was.
Florida is an interesting case: They have really only been a national power for 20 years when Spurrier took over the program. Before that they were merely a "pretty good" team. They had NEVER even won an SEC championship, let alone a NC, before Spurrier got there!
Honestly, I think UF is on the downturn and will be the #3 program in Florida pretty soon. Muschamp is just as likely to be the next Zook as he is the next Meyer.
But I don't think it's a coincidence that Florida has emerged in the last 20 years. Look at population trends. In 1980, the state of Florida had about the same population as Michigan. Today it has twice Michigan's population. Its talent base is enormous, and steadily growing - and UF is the state's flagship university. I think UF being dominant is the new normal. In fact, I might rank their job #1 in the country going forward.
I'm as much of a big 10 homer as anyone, but the top 4 jobs are all BIG teams? USC, Bama, and OK should be in the top 5 with UM and tSIO. I would put ND next just based on history, but not recent or future possibilities since they are still independent and that will only hurt them.
in no particular order:
has said that his 3 coaching offers his family has no veto on are from ND, tUOS, and Michigan.
In other news, I've got a beachfront condo for sale in Columbus...
it's not happening.
/speculation
....that beach is a discharge pile from the old PPG factory.
Aren't you that loser with the youtube account of the same name?
and he'd be a pretty crappy writer if he merely accidentally suggested that there were exactly 3 marquee jobs while thinking otherwise.
anyway i'm not upset. i just think it's strange that he asserts it so confidently, especially because he's writing in a non-specialized publication. experts are supposed to simplify things without falsifying them any more than necessary when writing for the general public. at that, he failed. it's bad journalism.
I'm only going to worry if BILG says he's going there...right?
and lazy editors.
Obviously not a well-thought-out comment.
Does he realizes that Florida has only been a marquee job for about 15 years, and used to barely be one of the 3 best programs in their State?
but at 27 i remember fsu and miami being as good or better than florida in my childhood, so maybe he's younger? he's poorly informed, at any rate.
He looks like the kind of guy who relies on ESPN for sports news.
looks right.
yeah... that loser.
/s
That's a very handsome man... We're buddies now wether you like it or not...
on probation in 1984 for 107 NCAA infractions.
They did however dominate the Seminoles under Charley Pell's reign, this was just before FSU became one of the two dominant State of Florida programs. They also beat Miami during the Schnellenberger years.
I think most good Florida historians would say, Florida's probation opened the door for Miami and FSU's dominance later in the 80's and even into the 90's and Florida was the King of the State of Florida in the early 80's. Even though Florida didn't achieve national prominance like Miami who won a national title in 83, but they had 4 and 5 loss seasons that book ended that one great team.
There was really no dominant State of Florida team prior to the 80's, heck Florida had NEVER won an SEC Championship, but I think most would say Florida was THE top program in that state until their probation hit in 1984. It took some time for them to rebound, and by then Miami and FSU had established their national prominance and its been a 3 horse race for the past 20 years.
Prior to the 80's Florida State and Miami were lumbering programs with little success.
thanks for the informative post. i got curious about pre-1980s and checked out the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Gators_football
it confirms that the gators weren't really a national program earlier than the 80s (although it says they still weren't until spurrier went there in 1990). interesting tidbit: florida had the winningest program in division 1 cfb from 1990-2010.
marquee when the school is on probation.
Not Bama, not USC, no one
I love it when Michigan fans get their panties in a bunch because some random guy didn't include them in his list of top 3 college football coaching gigs.
the "random guy" is a reporter at one of the nation's top newspapers. the other schools i listed have claims to being marquee jobs as good as or better than michigan's. and he didn't say it was his list. he claimed it like it was an obvious and widely-known fact. crappy reporting at the nytimes is noteworthy to people who care about journalism, as many around here do. that's all.
To be fair to Mr Thamel, most big time college coaches would probably agree with him.
wanna substantiate that?
Gary Pinkel wouldn't even interview for the job.
Greg Schiano chose to stay at Rutgers over Michigan.
Pat Fitzgerald chose to stay at NW over Michigan.
Three coaches who are not in marquee jobs either turned the job down or declined to even interview for the position. This, along with whatever happened with Harbaugh, Miles (twice), and Pelini, and I think its safe to say that coaches around the country don't think of Michigan as a top 3 or marquee job in college football.
Pinkel didn't play or coach in the Big Ten, and isn't from the state of Michigan. He has no ties to our football program. He's been successful at Missourri, finishing in the top two of his division for the past six years, and first three out of the last four.
He's 59 now. It's possible that the jobs somebody makes when they are 59 are different than those that they would have when they are 56, especially when you've settled.
Schiano also rejected Miami, a school he had ties to, and which was very successful from 1979-2006 (no coach in that time span had a record lower than .719). It's possible that he's just happy where he is and wouldn't leave for anyone.
Pat Fitzgerald is at his alma mater. Enough said.
You don't stay at Missouri/Rutgers/Northwestern if one of the top 3 jobs in college football comes calling.
What about RR turning down Alabama to stay at WVU?
Alabama wasn't a marquee program when RR turned them down.
Alabama had 4 different coaches in the six years prior to hiring Saban, and they certainly weren't a top 3 program under Mike Shula. Any school that finds a need to fire their coach isn't a top 3 job.
thought that the seat was too hot after the 2007 season, and projected drop off in talent.
- or -
Again thought that the seat is too hot after Rich Rodriguez was raked over the coals for not being a Michigan Man for three years, and the program was still suffering from an experienced talent gap.
- or -
(If you're Les Miles) Where you are offers you the opportunity to recruit at 1.5x the rate of Big Ten schools, and then drop the lowest potential players for players with higher potential. (So your odds of winning are lower.)
If I were a top coach, I might sit back on even a marquis program, if I thought the situation was toxic. The end of a Bo, Mo, Lloyd coaching tree was toxic for anybody but Les Miles in December 2007, and even he had to evaluate the youth, and lack of game experience of the returning team and think "I'll stick with what I've built myself, thank you very much".
Brady Hoke, may have been the smartest, to get into a marquis job when it is on the way back. Or he may be the next fall guy. OSU flaming out may have just paved his way.
Hoke doesn't have a clear successor on his staff though. I still think Harbaugh wants the job, he just wanted the NFL too, and knew if he took the job, it would be real hard to leave. So he went NFL first, thinking the Michigan job may be there for him in the future.
Also, if Michigan is not a marquis job, why does Michigan get so much press attention, and TV time even when we are down?
Bottom line, as Rich Rodriguez has learned the hard way, just because a job is marquis, does not mean it is in your best career interest to take it if the situation isn't right.
Then most big time college coaches are idiots. When you're the all-time leader in wins and win percentage, play in front of the biggest crowd, and have two intense rivalries with other marquee teams (OSU and ND), you're sought after.
This is just my opinion, but I don't think that the elite coaches care about winning percentage prior to their arrival or stadium capacity. Most of them care more about how much money they are going to make, and until recently Michigan has failed to be competitive in that area.
Until recently, we weren't looking for coaches. We hired Moeller and Carr in-house after having Bo for twenty years. Guy's that did not require millions per year to suit their ego. Not until Lloyd retired did we enter the rest of the CFB world needing to pony up the cash for a coach, which we did for RR. Now, we are paying accordingly, but not absurdly, again for a guy who is not out for the big bucks.
It's not about ego. It's about paying a competitive wage to attract the top candidates.
All 3 are the premier school in talent-rich states, making them no-brainer 9 win teams. That makes them elite. Stop whining.
I don't see why everyone is so up in arms about the comment. I don't happen to agree with his conclusion. However, there are none of the major programs with the most money, best facilities, history of recent success and built in advantages of dominating a top notch recruiting area as these three. When our success gets back to where it should be, we'll get our props. Until then, let's stop worrying about this stuff and let the coaching staff do its job. And as an initial (strong) cynic about the coaching hire, I have been impressed almost without exception. We'll be fine.
I didn't say they weren't elite. I raised a very simple issue, which you have totally failed to grasp. Like teaching large lecture courses to freshmen, this thread makes me wonder what UM admissions people even do.
to be all inclusive.
I think he was just trying to list schools that are prominent and have not been in the news for any sanctions recently (unfortunately, even the trumped-up ones under RR count), or he was just thinking of teams he recently saw play for a championship.