Penn State Punishment Open Thread--UPDATE: NCAA Punshment--$60M Fine, Lots of Scholarships

Submitted by Zone Left on July 23rd, 2012 at 1:53 AM

This is your Penn State Open Thread. Keep the board open for other topics please. I know it's tempting, but lots of other, less disturbing topics are available to discuss. I'm not trying to censor anyone. Instead, this is an open place to discuss your thoughts. Keep it clean. I'll review the thread later and be very unkind to posters who decide to be jerks.

NCAA Punishment:

  • $60 million dollar fine payable to an endowment for sex abuse victims
  • 10 initial scholarships per year for 4 years
  • 65 total scholarships on the roster for four years
  • 4 year bowl ban
  • Free transfers at any point in an athlete's career

Comments

M-Dog

July 23rd, 2012 at 10:03 AM ^

Is there anybody left in the Leaders Division that is eligible to play in the Big Ten Championship game this year?

Michigan vs. Indiana in the 2012 B1G Championship game.  I can't wait.

 

reshp1

July 23rd, 2012 at 10:13 AM ^

I'm conflicted about this. On one hand, there's no way for the NCAA to hand down a punishment that doesn't have massive collateral damage to a lot of people that had nothing to do with what happened. I'm glad to see they went out of their way to reduce the pain for current players, but there's no question they all still get screwed. Can't imagine being a kid in that position, living the dream playing college ball for a team and teammates you probably love and then either have to choose to start over somewhere else or play out your career under nuclear fallout.

On the other hand, as other posters have mentioned, I can't imagine a more clear cut, smoking gun example of loss of institutional control. When your head coach, athletic director, and president all agree to cover-up a heinous crime to save bad publicity for your football program, it's pretty clearly a culture of winning above all else. Granted the crime they covered up was not football related, and that I guess is the only argument that the NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction, but I still think sanctions are justified.

Maybe the only bright spot to come out of all this mess is that $60 million dollars that would otherwise have gone to perpetuate the football juggernaut at PSU now goes towards helping stop child abuse.

Huss

July 23rd, 2012 at 10:10 AM ^

This dude has it:

I'm done. THROUGH with Penn State.

Our leaders have failed us. The Freeh report was all conjecture, and there is damn near nothing to tie Joe Paterno or the athletic department in with this entire mess. Yet, our leaders accepted it without even bothering to READ it first. And they’re going to blindly accept these NCAA sanctions. And they continue to let Joe Paterno be the main scapegoat here.

What is going on? Its one thing for the media to rush to judgement, but our own leaders? This DOES smell like a cover-up, but not one by Paterno. No, this is a TRUE cover-up by the Board of Trustees. They are more than willing to make this a “football scandal” so nobody digs deeper into the REAL scandal. This is not a failure of a football culture, this is a POLITICAL scandal. Where is the investigation into the relationship between the Board of Trustees, Harrisburg and The Second Mile? MILLIONS in campaign donations and state grants were exchanged between the Second Mile, politicians and key Board members – THAT is the scandal and THAT is what the Board doesn’t want to come out. And THAT is why they allow the football team to be the scapegoat.

The Board of Trustees has something to hide. And I will NOT be a part of my alma mater again until they are all removed from those positions.

Mr. Yost

July 23rd, 2012 at 10:17 AM ^

So sad.

However, hopefully this idiot stays true to his word and stays away forever. He is a big part of the problem and it's good to see these sanctions are already taking affect.

reshp1

July 23rd, 2012 at 10:27 AM ^

You know, I've seen the "anyone that bothered to actually READ the Freeh report...." argument (READ is always all caps) from PSU fans but no one actually quoting parts of the report to make their point or exonerate Paterno. What exactly in the report are they referring too? The part the rest of the world is referring too, emails showing a meeting between Paterno, Spanier, Curley, and Schultz where they agreed to report Sandusky and then changing there minds because Paterno spoke to Curley, who then convinced the other two to not only do nothing, but also warn Sandusky someone saw him abusing a kid.

ILL_Legel

July 23rd, 2012 at 10:12 AM ^

Since the first day I heard of the allegations, all I can think about are the victims.  The firings didn't change that, the trial didn't change that, the guilty verdict didn't change that, the Freeh report, the statue, the sanctions, the different opinions, etc.  Nothing has changed what I think about when I read about Penn State.

Very powerful people paid a lot of money to do a job decided not to do their job and children were sexually abused. Some of them did not have to be abused if the powerful people in charge would have done their job.  I abhor the "you don't know what you would have done" argument.  The people paid to the their job did not do it.

 I'm not worried about the impact on Penn State, the players, the recruits, the fans, the Big 10, Michigan's Big 10 title chances etc.  Those things will be OK (maybe not great but OK).  The children that were abused will forever have to live with it.  I guess I feel some satisfaction that the penalties are severe so maybe people who are paid a lot of money to do a job just might remember what they are being paid to do.  In the end, I don't really care about the sanctions.  i just keep thinking about the victims and how it didn't have to be for some of them.

GoBluePhil

July 23rd, 2012 at 10:24 AM ^

There are more people worried about football than I can believe. The victims are rarely mentioned and it's almost like they don't exist. How can people think this was not a travesty. Wake up people. Children's lives have been changed FOREVER. Football games, recruiting, wins, losses, coaches and national titles should be secondary on everyone's mind as they relate to these victims.

Seth

July 23rd, 2012 at 11:15 AM ^

Man do I hate expunging wins as a punishment. History happened. If the NCAA wants those years to be tainted in memory, leave the damn wins up there and demand an asterisk explaining the circumstances of their punishment be included every time those wins are mentioned.

Erasing history should not be an option. Wins are not liquid things you accumulate--they're finite judgments of historical trials, to be taken in the entirety of the context they occurred in.

HarBooYa

July 23rd, 2012 at 1:12 PM ^

Ask Eddie R's people if they care about vacating these wins. Doesn't this restore him as the all time wins leader?

Not sure I like erasing history in non performance enhancing situations either, but this is definitely punishment. Ouch.

And as to the othe penalties, holy schnikies! Goodbye psu football for the next decade. Ouch.

trueblueintexas

July 23rd, 2012 at 12:50 PM ^

I disagree with this specifically in this case.  Here are my reasons:

1) Paterno clearly cared about those wins.  Even though he is gone, I think it is good to take away one of the things he cared about.  It may be symbolic but I think it is a good symbol to everyone else about priorities.

2) Joe Paterno's name would have kept coming up again and again in the future as programs and coaches continue to win games.  By taking away those victories, Joe Paterno's name will not be at the top of the list every time. Something which would have re-opened the wounds, not just of the vicitims themselves, but everyone who felt betrayed by the willful acts of those involved.

3) Penn State as an institution should not be able to claim the "Great history and tradition" of all those wins during a time in which it was clearly acting less than great.

LSAClassOf2000

July 23rd, 2012 at 11:05 AM ^

Joe Paterno now sits between Ken Sparks and Ron Schipper as the 12th winningest coach in the history of NCAA football (all divisions). Here is the NCAA coaching records document - obviously, Paterno's position changes from list to list (the record is broken down several ways here, but to highlight - 298 wins (new total) places him at 11th among coaches with at least 10 years at four-year institutions and 7th among coaches with 200 or more wins at one school.

That's a punch right in the soul of State College, but I tend to believe that this official rebuke of the circumstances surrounding the continued "success" during that period from 1998 to 2011 will help foster so of the needed change in the long term. The removal of the statue and the much diminished stature of the man in the record books - two items which the school rallied around - are now gone. The advantage given to the program by inaction has been erased. I do think this helps the fanbase and the university make that desperately needed break though...but judging from the storm at BSD, that will happen much later.

As for the scholaship reductions and the bowl ban, like others, I almost believe they would come out of this a little better by just shutting it down for a time and then restarting. They'll be irrelevant for many years now, it seems, unable to attract talent, and even when the restrictions expire, the effects will linger. I tend to look at this as a chance for them to go into some sort of competitive hibernation where they could work out all the internal failures which culminated in today's announcement while still allowing kids the opportunity to say that they played for Penn State if they so desire. It is still possible to make the needed cultural changes while there is something left of a program. There will likely be few if any people from the old regime left in very short order anyway.

The creation of the Compliance post and the Athletic Integrity Monitor (working in concert with probation), as well as the agreement that the university must sign and follow, are sanctions that I really did think were fitting. It's almost like having an outside consulting firm show you "a better way", and if there is any school which needs to grasp accountability and transparency in leadership, it is Penn State, and I don't blame the NCAA for wanting to be onsite as they learn this lesson.

 

myrtlebeachmai…

July 23rd, 2012 at 10:54 AM ^

In regards to the scholly limits:  (so we're clear, I understand the 10 scholly/yr loss to mean each recruiting class is capped at 15 for next 4 yrs)

However, the cumulative 65-scholly limit for the program poses a significant 1st year issue, right?  I mean, if that 65 total limit kicks in this year, AND in theory PSU was at it's full 85 limit exiting last year, they could have ZERO room for incoming recruits in 2012's class, right? 

Let's say they were indeed at 85 limit, and had 20ish guys graduate, leave early, exhaust eligibility.  That attrition gets them down to 65ish.  Even though they are technically aloowed 15 schooly per year now, they couldn't take any, right, 'cause they're still at the 65 total.

Every 2012 recruit would pretty much be toast??

Anone??

Alton

July 23rd, 2012 at 11:08 AM ^

This is not how I read it.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/ncaa/files/20120723/21207236PDF.pdf

The postseason ban is for the 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 seasons.

The reduction in initial scholarships (i.e., incoming freshmen) from 25 to 15 is for the 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 seasons.

The reduction in total scholarships from 85 to 65 is for the 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 seasons.

 

turd ferguson

July 23rd, 2012 at 10:56 AM ^

For the record, I find it really annoying that we can't have a few different threads that allow for focused discussion of the different angles of this.  Instead, we have one massive thread that's a pain in the ass to read through and a bunch of 10-reply threads on things like Ira Weinstraub's divorce and some guy's request for an Asian iTunes account.

This is far and away the biggest story affecting Michigan football right now - and one of the biggest college football stories in recent memory (for a Big Ten school, no less).  On top of that, there's a ton of information coming out and there's much that's uncertain/unclear.

Boo.

WolvinLA2

July 23rd, 2012 at 11:15 AM ^

I agree.  I talking about Penn State decommits is still relevant football news.  If you want to delete any individual posts where people are cheering about it, fine.  But I'm interested in reading about who decides to transfer or decommit because it's actual news.  And now I'm probably done trying to navigate this thread because it's too long.  Especially if someone posts something in the middle. 

Smash Lampjaw

July 23rd, 2012 at 11:35 AM ^

Penn State: bad for business. College Sports Chamber of Commerce will act or choose not to act as necessary to promote business.

 

Edit; Downvoted by an avid fan of the NCAA, whose interest is ever and only that of the student athlete and committed to consistent enforcement of its regulations, regardless of the consequences? Sorry.

Alton

July 23rd, 2012 at 11:22 AM ^

2012:  $12M fine, no postseason games, probation, waiver of transfer rules, no B1G bowl payout

2013:  $12M fine, no postseason games, 15 freshman scholarships, probation, no B1G bowl payout

2014:  $12M fine, no postseason games, 15 freshman scholarships, 65 total scholarships, probation, no B1G bowl payout

2015:  $12M fine, no postseason games, 15 freshman scholarships, 65 total scholarships, probation, no B1G bowl payout

2016:  $12M fine, 15 freshman scholarships, 65 total scholarships, probation

2017:  65 total scholarships

They will probably not recover from these penalties until about 2021 at the earliest.

 

jmblue

July 23rd, 2012 at 12:04 PM ^

I do feel for PSU students/fans; there was nothing 99.9% of them could have done to stop this scandal from happening, but they're associated with it all the same.  For the current players, too, it sucks.  And while I'm sure a lot of guys will transfer on their own, the scholarship limit for this year (75) essentially forces several of them to do so before September or else someone is going to lose his free ride.

At the same time, I think the punishment is justified.  This was a school that believed that covering up a serial child rapist was justified to protect its image.  It's shocking to believe that PSU accepted that line of reasoning, but it did.  I'm proud of the NCAA for having the guts to deliver a powerful message here.  I'm hopeful that from here on out, people will think about what happened to PSU before they try to sweep criminal behavior under the rug.  For once, at least, the NCAA is making it clear that it values integrity among its membership.  

 

Rmilkman

July 23rd, 2012 at 5:24 PM ^

If 13 years of wins are vacated, that puts Bowden as the winningest college football coach. Not the main point of these sanctions, but it's just something that I realized. They railed Penn State. Plain and simple. And deservingly so. I doubt that they'll recover from this.