Penn State Punishment Open Thread--UPDATE: NCAA Punshment--$60M Fine, Lots of Scholarships

Submitted by Zone Left on July 23rd, 2012 at 1:53 AM

This is your Penn State Open Thread. Keep the board open for other topics please. I know it's tempting, but lots of other, less disturbing topics are available to discuss. I'm not trying to censor anyone. Instead, this is an open place to discuss your thoughts. Keep it clean. I'll review the thread later and be very unkind to posters who decide to be jerks.

NCAA Punishment:

  • $60 million dollar fine payable to an endowment for sex abuse victims
  • 10 initial scholarships per year for 4 years
  • 65 total scholarships on the roster for four years
  • 4 year bowl ban
  • Free transfers at any point in an athlete's career



July 23rd, 2012 at 9:44 AM ^

Someone on BSD (Black Shoe Diaries) said that the NCAA is going to waive scholly limits for teams who accept PSU transfers.

Any good DT/OL?


July 23rd, 2012 at 9:45 AM ^

I grew up in PA and was a Penn State fan before I was a Michigan fan.  

As somebody who wants what is in Penn State's best interest, I would rather see them take a year off, "reboot" the program, and start over clean, rather than the scholarship limits and bowl bans.

On paper, it may seem like they got away with a lesser punishment, but I don't think so.  With the scholarship limits and bowl bans over four years, it just drags the program through the mud for a long time, and in a diminished capacity.  It emerges stained and bruised with no clean separation from the past.

A self-imposed year off would benefit everyone.  It gives time to reflect on what went wrong and what the program should be.  It can then come back clean, reorganized and refocused, and stronger for it.

Penn State is not SMU.  SMU had to buy the only success it ever had.  Given its status as the only major D1 program in talent rich PA (sorry Pitt), Penn State will always be successful.  A year off will let them return to that success the right way. 



July 23rd, 2012 at 9:46 AM ^

Penn State limited to 65 schollys per year. Division I-AA allows 63.

If they are limited to a max of 15 scholarships per year, it seems like there would be the potential to be only 60 scholarship athletes in the last year of the probation.  I cannot believe that the Big Ten won't add a 13th team with plans to add a 14th team by time PSU comes off the postseason ban.


July 23rd, 2012 at 9:46 AM ^

I have no idea if it's true, but a few people are saying that schools that accept PSU transfers won't have to count them against the scholarship limit, seems unlikely to me.


July 23rd, 2012 at 9:50 AM ^

See NCAA releases on PSU Sanctions and Penn State football student-athletes allowed easier transfers

Additionally, the NCAA is considering waiving scholarship limits for programs to which these football student-athletes transfer, provided they reduce proportionately in the next year. For example, the limit is 25 new scholarships per year to a total of 85 scholarships. If the limits are waived in 2012-13 to accommodate one Penn State student-athlete who wishes to transfer to a particular school already at the limits, in 2013-14 the school will be limited to 24 new scholarships and 84 total scholarships.

Wolverine Incognito

July 23rd, 2012 at 9:46 AM ^

I am glad that PSU did not get the death penalty.  These sanctions are sufficient, but the PSU players and fanbase will still get to play/watch football in the fall.  That will be at least a small escape for people who had nothing to do with this tragedy.


July 23rd, 2012 at 9:48 AM ^

I suppose this should be 0% surprising by now, but the BSD reaction thread is nauseating.  Basically everyone there is furious that the Penn State BoT just "laid down and accepted the penalties" without even trying to fight them. Because, heaven forbid that they show a modicum of contrition for something that the word 'football scandal' grossly trivializes. 

(Not to put too fine a point on it because it's comparing apples and mutated zombie sperm whales, but Michigan proactively punished itself when it had its scandals and that, I think, earned us points from the NCAA for at least deigning to recognize we had problems and were committed to fixing them.)


July 23rd, 2012 at 10:12 AM ^

It is sicker than that. This is from one of their top poster to the Sandusky victims...

To the point where if someone brings it up, I will openly state we’ve done enough for them. They’re going to compensated financially from the university, they’re being offered the counseling they need, the offenders are facing criminal charges or already in jail. Enough is enough. If one of the victims speaks up and request something, I’m all for helping them and reasonably accommodating their wishes, but I’m done with support actions taken on their behalf. This has gotten absurdly ridiculous. So go ahead and tell me I condone child rape or whatever else you want to label me, but that’s the point that all this shit has driven me to.


July 23rd, 2012 at 10:09 AM ^

Western PA is nowhere near as talent rich as it used to be.  Whenever the rare gem does pop up Michigan and Ohio also rush in to fight for it.  Look at PSU's roster, less and less out of Western PA and more from New York, New Jersey, and Maryland.  Areas where there is no diehard PSU loyalty.  Those coal towns in Western PA are emptying out and PSU has been having talented issues as evidenced by the fact it was all downhill for them after the 1980s.  They never recruiting on the same level as Tressel and Carr and now it seems garaunteed they'll be lucky to recruit on the level of Indiana.  

Also Pitt is now in the ACC and trying to get its act together.  This gives Pitt a window to grab all the decent talent in the state and become the dominate football program in state.  Even Temple is semi functional for that matter.


July 23rd, 2012 at 11:08 AM ^

I think whole situation is worse than at Alabama (in terms of sanctions and overall PR nightmare) and Alabama was a stronger program than PSU before all of it.  There is no evidence at all that a non-Paterno led Penn State can recruit players or win games, so their recovery will be long and hard.  More than 10 years I bet. 

During the penalties, they'll suck really hard.  Immediately after that they'll still struggle to recruit at a high level because of their recent history (and they still won't win due to the smaller number of upperclassmen) and after that, no kid being recruited will remember anything about Penn State pre-blow up.  Think about it - a kid being recruited in the 2018 or 2019 class will have been 9 or 10 when this all went down, and it only gets worse every year after that. 


July 23rd, 2012 at 11:40 AM ^

I don't disagree except the part of PSU not showing they can recruit without Paterno. He's been there so long that the PSU he inherited was so radically different than one he left, and over those years the team may well have been able to recruit with another head man. I expect PSU to struggle, but it is still a school that should be able to compete in the future.


July 23rd, 2012 at 9:48 AM ^

go from here? The vacation of those wins really means nothing to those athletes that played in them. They know they won on the field and that cant be taken away. PSU has lost depth in their roster completly though for the next 4 to 5 years. Absolutely stunned they took away 112 wins along with 40 scholarship losses. I feel this was undeserved for the athletes but because of the staff the whole team must suffer. Man do I feel sorry for O Brien.


July 23rd, 2012 at 9:51 AM ^

Current players need not suffer-they can just transfer.  I hope they dont end up as spartans.  Wonder when the determination will be made if they can transfer within the conference.  We just dont have room on the roster.

As for Penn State...Having 15 schollies/year, combined with the 4 year postseason ban, and the mass exodus, and the stigma...Its going to be a lost decade.  Its like Brian suggested a while back.  They start over.  They call this Team 1.  They bill it as "A Team You Can Be Proud Of" and go from there.  People will watch.  Many many people will still love and support the University, and there is something noble in that.  Because they will be terrible.  And what came before them was tainted.


July 23rd, 2012 at 9:51 AM ^

Congratulations Bobby Bowden.  You are now the #1 all-time wins coach in D1.

And I always thought that Bobby B. was the "shady" one.  Who knew?


July 23rd, 2012 at 9:53 AM ^

B1G needs to have a closed-door meeting with Notre Dame.  Now.

Not trying to trivialize what happened at PSU at all, indeed, what I am saying just makes the fallout from it that much more substantial, but...

... the B1G has now perfectly justifiable cause to drop PSU from the B1G, and PSU would be nuts to fight against it in a public battle.  It would be a PR nightmare for them on top of the nightmare they are already suffering.


Meanwhile, Notre Dame gets a rare opportunity to join the B1G during this time of conference consolidation and playoff formation and having balanced divisions WITHOUT DILUTING THE CONFERENCE.  Simply stating, replacing PSU with Notre Dame gives the B1G an even number of financially strong, football strong, and academically strong programs.


Any other scenario that I can come up with that brings Notre Dame on board dilutes the B1G due to the near-necessity of bringing ANOTHER program from somewhere else to make the numbers/scheduling within the B1G work.  And I can't think of another school that fits well.  Period.  So replacement becomes a good option.

And PSU is ripe for pruning, sadly.  I wish it weren't so.  But it is.  Dropping PSU without replacing with ND is, I think, probably not worth it.  But it's within the realm of reasonable debate.

Dropping PSU and replacing with ND is a no-brainer.

But I wouldn't have the B1G commit to such a move until it was all but assured, secretly beforehand, that ND would fill the vacancy.

For ND, in a third-handed kind of way, it would also philosophically represent a bit of redemption in being part of the punishment for a tragic scandal involving child abuse, given the association with ND and the Catholic faith, as another example of the synergy of this move.

Once again, I am not seeking to trivialize the tragedy here, but this creates an opportunity for the B1G to make a statement about acceptable levels of behavior, not just by removing a program that has such gross violations that it has nowhere to hide, but by replacing it with a program that at least ostensibly tries to maintain a sterling reputation.  Especially when it comes to something like this.

I CAN'T be the ONLY one thinking this.  Right?


July 23rd, 2012 at 10:45 AM ^

I'm very, very angry with PSU, and think they got perhaps less than they deserved.

But I don't see Notre Dame as a viable conference member - in fact, they'd be like Texas in the former Big 12: difficult at best, and arrogant at worst.

Now that the sanctions have come down from the NCAA and will also come down from the B1G, I think the obligation of the conference also includes helping PSU through this, if they remain in the conference.

I honestly don't like the idea of a feeding frenzy on PSU players. It's like raiding a corpse.

The last thing I want to think about is adding another conference member.


July 23rd, 2012 at 9:54 AM ^

Like Jesse Palmer is saying right now on the Mothership, Bill O'Brien and co. have a big period of work coming up here.  How does one try and hang on to those kids that are currently enrolled and were going to play football?!.  Over/under on how many leave...  

Johnny Blood

July 23rd, 2012 at 9:55 AM ^

Wow, much harsher than I expected. 

Will be interesting to see how the Paterno loyalists react to the vacated wins, which goes right to the heart of his claim to greatness.


Mr. Yost

July 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 AM ^

Like Emmert said, if you take away the football season it affects so many other people. So much staff and outside employees rely on football to support their families.

It's not the same as the death penalty.


July 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 AM ^

I bet most of the upper classman players will stay.  The guys with 3 or 4 years left will see  heavy attrition.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the Big10 remove the in-conference scholarship restriction for transfers.  They just might cap it at something like 2 or 3 scholarship transfers per school.  Michigan is already almost full, so schools that are behind in 2013 recruiting will win big.