PBS Tackles CTE
PBS published an article yesterday that summarizes the findings of a recent CTE study. Add this to the growing pile of evidence:
A total of 87 out of 91 former NFL players have tested positive for the brain disease at the center of the debate over concussions in football, according to new figures from the nation’s largest brain bank focused on the study of traumatic head injury.
Researchers with the Department of Veterans Affairs and Boston University have now identified the degenerative disease known as chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, in 96 percent of NFL players that they’ve examined and in 79 percent of all football players. The disease is widely believed to stem from repetitive trauma to the head, and can lead to conditions such as memory loss, depression and dementia.
In total, the lab has found CTE in the brain tissue in 131 out of 165 individuals who, before their deaths, played football either professionally, semi-professionally, in college or in high school.
Here is a link to the full article:
September 19th, 2015 at 8:22 AM ^
There are PLENTY of researchers who say we just don't know enough about CTEs in the general population to draw any conclusions. This study is not groundbreaking because most studies link it to repetitive head collisions as one potential cause. I think, however, that even the scientists who did this study would advise against drawing a conclusions that it means football is uniquely dangerous compared to bicycling, soccer, wrestling, skiing, etc.
I have no problem with this study, only the idea that it gets dragged out as newsworthy when most in the scientific community would likely say "woah ..., hold on there." (Of course some scientists like publicity too though.)
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September 19th, 2015 at 8:32 AM ^
PBS is non-profit. Painting them with the same brush as sensationlist corporate media is wrong. Sorry, but CTE being found in 87 of 91 deceased brains is quite newsworthy.
You are more than welcome to prove to me that "most" of the scientific community has pause about saying that CTE is far more common in football players than the general population.
September 19th, 2015 at 7:10 PM ^
Do tell. However it does have a history of covering stories in detail, especially those that the mainstream media will not or do not cover. Plus they do their due diigence and fact finding prior to releasing a story like this. The mainstream media will release a story without full fact finding if they think their competition will beat them to it.
September 19th, 2015 at 8:31 AM ^
is that you can negligently exaggerate the knowledge-base that science has on an issue in the exact same way that you can negligently ignore the knowledge-base that science has on an issue. In this case, there is wayyyyy too little known about the mechanism, extent, and scope of the problem to make any sort of informed decisions on changes to rules, equipment, etc. You can make "educated guesses," but those are based off of common sense, not some scientific foundation.
September 19th, 2015 at 10:16 AM ^
True, but not knowing the means doesn't eliminate findings that illuminate the ends. Scientific discovery works in both ways. As of know, the scientific community can say that the evidence points to a heavy correlation between football (via repetitive OR single violent head trauma) and tau build-up/brain wasting. The numbers do point to a degree of causation, but that link isn't known and more research needs to be done.
It is important to remember that CTE can only be diagnosed post-humously. These post-mortem studies point only to tau build-up/brain wasting and not a connection to cognitive defunction (which is assumed). This work needs to be done in living brains, which is challenging by the lack of safe techniquest to illuminate tau deposition and brain wasting.
September 19th, 2015 at 8:35 AM ^
Side here, but if we left "trite" and "moron" out of it the discussion may have worked better. As for "wrong side of history"? I know in the 80's it was nothing to throw around the term "faggot". I was wrong. Rather than bitch about PCness, people should actually consider their positions.
September 19th, 2015 at 9:05 AM ^
This discussion has taken place in every CTE thread on this board.
Peter Klima thinks that brain trauma in sports is only caused by concussions; he ignores anything that has to do with sub-concussive hits and goes on about how other sports are just as dangerous because of concussions, ad he'll be back in the next thread saying the same thing. Don't waste your breath trying to argue.
September 19th, 2015 at 11:15 AM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 10:20 AM ^
Interesting position from someone so deferential to authority. Especially when scientific researchers themselves state unequivocally that more research is needed. You seem to like to position others as ignorant, and this statement qualifies perfectly.
September 19th, 2015 at 9:15 PM ^
it's part and parcel of the scientific method. Almost every paper ever written suggests the need for further research.
When a scientist actually suggests the need for social policy change... that is when the pitch forks come out - not to mention research dollars drying up.
This dance we are doing around the data wrt CTE is complex as hell. Science isn't really helping at the moment given what is known to be true... in my ignorant opinion.
September 19th, 2015 at 9:48 AM ^
This is a fine question to ask, but I suspect a study of a few thousand tennis players won't reveal similar results. Your hypothesis will likely be shown to be quite wrong. Football is going to need to change, whether we like it or not.
September 19th, 2015 at 7:12 AM ^
PBS didn't lead with their head when tackling CTE did they?
Wouldn't want them to suffer a head injury.
September 19th, 2015 at 7:38 AM ^
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September 19th, 2015 at 7:40 AM ^
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September 19th, 2015 at 7:19 AM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 10:21 AM ^
the post above you from Born sinner.
September 19th, 2015 at 2:29 PM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 7:30 AM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 7:55 AM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 10:22 AM ^
I agree but this isn't crap. The limitation is you need dead subject brains. Do you want to guess how easy it is to get dead brains? It would be great and ideal if we just took 1000 high school football players and 1000 non-football players and killed them so we can study their brains. Then we would know....but something called ethics and technological limitations prevent these ideal studies from being pursued.
September 19th, 2015 at 7:51 AM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 8:03 AM ^
players who donated their brains because they were concerned that they had CTE complications from playing football. Basically all this study shows is that 96% of former football players were able to accurately self-diagnose themselves with symptoms caused by CTE.
September 19th, 2015 at 7:58 AM ^
Two, correlation vs cause and effect are still in debate. Yes, individuals who have suffered head trauma are at risk for cte, but have they found the direct medical link? Our society continues to be emasculated as gender and toughness are constantly under attack. Football, as explained by presidents, generals, business leaders, develop different kind of Men. Men who stand for something, who lead their families and nations, men that make a difference. I will always encourage future "Men" to play football.
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September 19th, 2015 at 8:08 AM ^
to claim that the push for safety reforms in football are a causal symptom of the pussification of America than it does to believe that it is more than likely that CTE is caused by regular play in football.
September 19th, 2015 at 8:10 AM ^
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September 19th, 2015 at 8:02 AM ^
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September 19th, 2015 at 8:02 AM ^
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September 19th, 2015 at 8:03 AM ^
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September 19th, 2015 at 8:03 AM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 9:26 AM ^
sample selection.
September 19th, 2015 at 8:03 AM ^
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September 19th, 2015 at 8:53 AM ^
Your sources: "USA Football," "Football Matters" and a letter to the editor. What an addition to the discourse.
September 19th, 2015 at 8:05 AM ^
comparing across all NFL players of any era and also curious what the prevalance of CTE type tissue would be among the general population. a couple of factors could be strongly influencing what they report and controlling for them would be very important.
1. would it be safe to assume the specimens they did gather were all donated by families of players with the problem so there's no wonder the number is so high. in other words, it may be true that the vast majority of players don't/haven't ever developed the issue but that also means their families never had those brains tested.
2. outside of football, many/most (?) ball players live a very hard life, and yes i do mean boozing, drugs, pills, partying to the Nth degree. i would imagine those factors would impact the results significantly and be very difficult to control or account for.
non-couch potato disclaimer: i played football until i was 41, am now in my 50's. i really do feel fine mentally so far [insert old guy joke here] but of course that could change.
September 19th, 2015 at 8:06 AM ^
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September 19th, 2015 at 9:24 AM ^
But athletes (younger generations at least) are also in fantastic physical shape, great cardio, nutrition, etc.
They are typically the healthiest top % of the population, so other negative health aspects aren't usually part of the equation.
Older "steak & potatoes" players if agree 100%.
September 19th, 2015 at 8:05 AM ^
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Why-Football-Matters-By-J…
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September 19th, 2015 at 8:58 AM ^
"Yuppie Neg." "Pussy Media." You should have stayed at MLive.
September 19th, 2015 at 10:24 AM ^
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September 19th, 2015 at 8:13 AM ^
Forty percent of those who tested positive were the offensive and defensive linemen who come into contact with one another on every play of a game, according to numbers shared by the brain bank with FRONTLINE.
I know they did an episode in 2013 about the NFL's handling of concussions and the lawsuit, but it would be interesting to see them devote a show specifically to this study so they can break out and expand on it a bit. I have a suspicion that something more than a summary article would help us here.
That being said, that 40% of the players in the tested group were lineman of some variety would not shock me in the least. Like someone mentioned above though, a much broader study, perhaps one done at each level of play, would probably be most appropriate here if only to see the progression of problems and even to see which positions are indeed most at risk.
Frontline has devoted a lot of time to this subject actually - more articles here if anyone is interested, as well as a link to their NFL episode (approx. 2 hours)
September 19th, 2015 at 8:14 AM ^
is just not solid enough at this point to serve as a basis for policy decisions. This study is propaganda at its worst. Just by stating the 96% stat they are serving up a delectable sound-byte for untrained journalists to negligently run with. This study really does nothing to answer the much more relevant questions that have already been posed higher up.
September 19th, 2015 at 8:28 AM ^
They know what they are getting themselves into but that doesn't mean the NFL can't do more to aid them in their retirement.
September 19th, 2015 at 11:56 AM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 8:47 AM ^
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September 19th, 2015 at 8:59 AM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 9:13 AM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 9:19 AM ^
A recently published (April 2015) article in Proc Nat Acad of Sci details a study in which PET brain imaging was used to characterize CTE *in vivo*. The in vivo aspect of this is key. Based on what I saw in the Frontline documentary League of Denial, the NFL's positions was/is that - despite the high % of ex-NFL players' brains discovered with CTE in autopsy - there is not (yet) a way to determine how widespread of an issue this is for NFL players overall vs. what has been discovered in the autopsy-based research. And, thus, there's no way to definitively/quantitatively link CTE risk to football.
If these in vivo PET studies can be developed into a standard, clinical test for CTE, that would address the issue of large population. A standard protocol could be put in place for getting baseline PET scans on all (or a large segment of) NFL players (and/or for youth, HS, college level players as well) and continuing to monitor this population with such PET scans during and after their football careers.
September 19th, 2015 at 9:28 AM ^
than submit myself to regular PET scans.
September 19th, 2015 at 11:50 AM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 9:16 AM ^
September 19th, 2015 at 9:22 AM ^