Past 2 SEASONS of B1G Conference: Michigan's Opponents Penalized Only Twice for Offensive Holding

Submitted by Caesar on November 28th, 2017 at 3:02 AM

This is a crazy update from Maizen's thread (here) now that we're at the end of the season.

The latest version of the report (linked here) is from a 247 article, with original info coming from Toronto Sun columnist John Kyrk. 

I mean, yikes. This should at least raise some eyebrows. 

Edit: Title was worded improperly. Please see the comments below for more information. 

Comments

UMICH1606

November 28th, 2017 at 3:15 AM ^

What button did Maizen push to finally get sent to Bolivia? I am pretty sure his 2nd time around at 247/Scour finally got caved as well. Someone mentioned Dobbs and he didn't come running to turn the thread into a disaster.

Caesar

November 28th, 2017 at 7:29 AM ^

I was on another site (maybe reddit), and someone brought up Maizen pretty much unprompted. That's some next-level stuff. 

On the other hand, I've known some folks in my personal life who are grappling with depression, and I can't help but see parallels between their behavior and Maizen's posts. These folks weren't just negative about stuff, they were inconsolable and obdurate in their negativity.   

tasnyder01

November 28th, 2017 at 7:51 AM ^

I fucking hate that word. Read it inc back in HS (Paradise Lost), and loved it.

Then you fucking use it around people, and no one knows what it means. It sucks.

Serious question tho: Where have you seen that word? I'm a pretty voracious reader and I think I've only ever seen it once. In a book written in the 1600s (or thereabouts). That word is ooooold.

S.D. Jones

November 28th, 2017 at 12:53 PM ^

Obdurate ain't that obscure. It pops up in the Gilbert & Sullivan song "Titwilliow" in the Mikado, which is still a rather popular show (at least in my house). In fact, there is a great take somewhere on the interwebs of Groucho Marx performing the song on TV in the '60s and stopping to ask the audience if anyone knows what obdurate means. So if Groucho wants you to know, are you really gonna argue?

Caesar

November 28th, 2017 at 3:29 PM ^

I think by noting that I observed parallels in friends (instead of discussing symptoms seen in my patients or identified in the literature), I've pretty well distanced myself from any claims to be a mental health professional or otherwise capable of making a diagnosis.

What I'm saying is that it's easy to be annoyed, but maybe there's room for compassion. Sometimes people say things that don't make sense, and sometimes that's a signal about an underlying problem. 

LSAClassOf2000

November 28th, 2017 at 11:34 AM ^

The banning of Maizen was done by Seth, as he admits in the Mod Sticky. Essentially, it was the cumulative effect of his posts ultimately turning into cesspools and his unfortunate reaction to being questioned or challenged that brought him down. He was kind of invited to try again under another name and with a nicer tone. 

JHumich

November 28th, 2017 at 3:15 AM ^

You almost lost me at Maizen, but dang those stats are compelling in the 247 article... sad. 

One takeaway is that our D is even more freaking beastly than previously acknowledged.

bo_lives

November 28th, 2017 at 3:16 AM ^

without getting caught. Apparently he has people study the refs to try to figure out the trends in how things are being called. Is this a thing? Is Michigan doing it? If no, why the fuck not? Shit, I'd do it for the DBs, WRs, and RBs too.

bluinohio

November 28th, 2017 at 4:13 AM ^

That has nothing to do with it. They're just screwing us. When a defensive lineman falls on the ground and our tackle falls on him and they call that holding, but don't call the blatant ones against our d, it's on purpose.

The typical response is, well we just need to beat teams bad enough that those calls don't matter. Sure, that works against Rutgers, but the odds of blowing out osu aren't very good. Those games will be close and the refs will make a difference.

charblue.

November 28th, 2017 at 9:40 AM ^

and making more plays ensures tha.  But the contention that you should suck it up and play on without complaint when calls are not made or go against you, particularly in The Game, is just plain galling.

But when there is a discernible pattern and evidence on film of discrepancies in both the nature of certain penalties called and the nature of them, the league needs to explain itself.

One year of one-sided officiating was bad enough, two years of inconsistent calls in The Game represents more than the work product of more than one crew, it's a pattern, especially when you consider the numbers.

Officiating is about angles, standards and consistency in rules enforcement. Players and coaches can accept any officiating so long as they know what is allowed and what isn't. Holding is always a judgment call, whether on offense or deffense based on whether player control is being managed after engagement and leverage has been defeated and holding occurs to prevent unencumbered movement.

Clearly, holding could be called on offensive linemen all game long. And so an egregious standard is typically set. And that standard is usually one where the defender is pulled down, hooked or grabbed and the play is so obvious that even first-time fans can pinpoint it. I mean that is what has essentially become the apparent standard for the Big Ten in making this call.

NFL officials have no qualms making this call. I watched the Carolina-Jet game on Sunday just to see what constitutes offensive holding at the pro level, and based on the flags thrown on both teams in that game alone (each team was called for holding at least once), the standard applied was simply losing engagement with the defender and seeking to prevent his movement toward playing action.

These weren't overt. And the flags thrown were for far less consquential illegal control than the Buckeyes managed in trying to block Maurice Hurst at times on Saturday. On the play where Haskins got a first down on a run insiide the Michigan five, Hurst got a hand on Haskins while a Buckeye blocker had two hands on him from behind. Now that is the essece of holding, seeking to prevent unencumbered movement. And the result of the play was huge.

There is a reason holding gets called on big plays either from scrambles or deep throws, and that's because they take longer to develop and there is a longer period of sustained engagement between blocker and defender in the backfield. And yet, in none of these plays on Saturday was holding ever called even though there is plenty of evidence on film to show this occurring.

And given the standard set Saturday for holding calls was advantage-disadvantage bsased on leverage, the league in my opinion cannot adequately explain why one thing was called and others let go. And if you can't explain it, you can't call it, whcih is apparently the new standard for the Big Ten, especially in The Game.

 

war-dawg69

November 28th, 2017 at 10:22 AM ^

OSU gets flagged more than us in other games. That in itself tells the whole story. I remember them having nine penalty's at the half of the Iowa game and thinking they had one the whole game last year. I think it is obvious and that there is a directive issued for the game.

Also no holding calls against our d-line is flat out impossible. I think Warde Manuel better start addressing these issues with delaney. I am pretty sure Michigan can cause some major waves. Maybe we should become an independent and get our own network. Wonder how much revenue Michigan brings into the Big Ten. I would think the team who brings in the most money would benefit from some calls.

I personally like the direct approach and would like to see the officials get flat out beat down, but they say I have violent tendencies. LOL.

pescadero

November 28th, 2017 at 12:06 PM ^

"Also no holding calls against our d-line is flat out impossible."

 

Not really. Even really good D-lines get almost no holding calls.

 

For the season:

 

Michigan opponents have been called for holding 8 times.

0.66 per game.

 

Ohio State opponents have been called for holding 9 times.

0.75 per game.

 

Alabama opponents have been called for holding 3 times.

0.25 per game

 

 

BossHawgzGoinHam

November 28th, 2017 at 3:24 AM ^

I read this on 247 earlier tonight. All I can say is it's about damn time somebody says something about this BS! I was so sick of watching reporters post stories about our games and never mention how outrageously bad the officiating was.

We need to threaten to leave the B1G. That lost revenue from Michigan might make those greedy assholes start calling our games fair. I mean it's beyond denial at this point! People have to be seeing this and finally acknowledge we are being cheated something vicious.

bo_lives

November 28th, 2017 at 4:07 AM ^

Honenstly fuck Delaney. He has been out to get us ever since the Bo days. When Bo called him out he just doubled down.

If you don't like the rules, change the game. Join the SEC. As if they wouldn't be dying to have Michigan. Conspire with Texas to make it a package deal: Texas joins the West and Michigan joins the East to form the first SUPERCONFERENCE with 16 teams. Keep the OSU game as an OOC end of season matchup like Florida-FSU.

Yes, travel would be hard, but I prefer that to getting screwed by the d-bags that run the Big Ten year in and year out.

/s (but only slightly...)

allintime23

November 28th, 2017 at 4:32 AM ^

I agree as well. It’s hard enough to win these games but I think the players know now that by the fourth quarter you have to expect for the game to be turned by the officiating. I see no reason to play in B1G anymore and it’s not a take your ball and go home mentality. If you are used for your brand and history only to get cheated and celebrated in defeat, what’s the sense? Go independent and even if you don’t always end up playing for championships at least you don’t have to play rabid, idiot fan bases and schools that live to beat you in games where you don’t get a fair shot to win. Nothing would make me happier than to leave rivalries with the two trashy schools in the big ten that obsess on us every second and know that the big ten will do whatever they have to do to get them the win when we play.

Maynard

November 28th, 2017 at 8:58 AM ^

Leaving the Big Ten would be stupid and it will never happen. Leaving the conference because of the refs would be an all-time embarrassment as any national respect would be lost and deservedly so.

We're never going independent. Jesus Christ, if this isn't the most Michigan comment ever I don't know what is. When you would rather avoid playing rabid, idiot fanbases than just beat them and play for championships, you've gone full soft cult and jumped the shark.

Man up and win anyway. People are seriously upvoting whiny "we should leave the Big Ten because we don't get calls" comments? What the fuck? Have some self-respect.

Kermits Blue Key

November 28th, 2017 at 9:42 AM ^

Some would define "having some self-respect" as standing up for yourself and not letting someone continuously take advantage of you. Unless you're watching different games than the rest of us, the last two OSU games have been an embarrassment from an officiating standpoint. Man up and win anyway?? Sure.

I'm not saying we should absolutely leave the B1G, but your response is just as much of an overreaction in the opposite direction of the ones you are chastising.

Maynard

November 28th, 2017 at 10:00 AM ^

No. Not really. It's the realistic take. Michigan is not leaving the Big Ten and won't and this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion if we had any Big Ten titles recently. Everyone here knows that. It makes no sense to be an independent. It makes no sense to be in the SEC or any other conference when the Big Ten revolves so heavily around Michigan and Ohio State for football. If there is a problem (and we know there is) then make a public campaign against Delaney or some other such move but you don't quit and leave the conference.

So no, it's not an overreaction at all. It's pointing out how fucking soft people are getting when they are resorting to "let's quit the conference becauze we don't like how games are being officiated." 

We lost 4 games this year. None of them were lost because of the lack of holding calls. We still had chances to win. Leaving the conference/taking our ball and going home is not a real solution.

BossHawgzGoinHam

November 28th, 2017 at 8:45 PM ^

So for u it makes more sense to constantly get cheated and under appreciated over and over?

The problem is people have been programmed to sit down and shut up and accept that what they are seeing is the truth.

If this scenario was a relationship and the B1G was your wife would u not seriously consider a divorce, or would u think your wife was bigger than u kinda like u do with the B1G and stay with her lying cheating ass lol?

war-dawg69

November 28th, 2017 at 10:47 AM ^

It's all about honesty and fair play. The kids are really the one's getting fucked over. I see you don't care about fair play and probably never played in any type of sport. The refs are not put in there to change the fuckin outcome of the game. Of course with billions of dollars riding on these games ther is no way this shit is deliberate.

People outside of the Michigan fan base are seeing it. That my man is a national embarassment. There are people all over the media commenting on it. It is hard enough to win these games but when the other team is getting a handicap it becomes somewhat unfair don't you think my man.

OSU had nine penaltys at the half against Iowa and one the whole game last year. It makes a huge difference but hey man up and win anyway's. How about fuck you the game should be officiated fairly...........EVERY GAME.

Oh Ya we don't have to leave, we just have to mention it. Money talks and when the rich are getting fucked over it would be stupid to do nothing. Of course we are not leaving, but I will never understand why anyone in a position of power would ever relinquish it. This country figured it out and maybe Michigan will also.

Maynard

November 28th, 2017 at 11:26 AM ^

Whoa. Easy there. Pretty sure we're still on the same side. I'm actually mad about the officiating too. I just know we aren't leaving the conference and any talk of that is futile and dumb.

As for me playing a sport. I actually played football, basketball, baseball and ran track (baseball and track in the same season) in high school. Was an all-state pitcher in baseball and an honorable mention all-state football player, all-conference in basketball. I also medaled at state in track in the 100m and 400m relay. So yeah, didn't play any sport, hahahaha. Would tell you what I did after high school but I'm not giving up my identity. 

That being said, I don't think playing the sport is relevant in this discussion but whatever.

I AGREE. Let me restate, I AGREE. We need better and fair officiating. But bitching about it all the time isn't changing anything and MIchigan leaving the Big Ten is and will be a non-starter.

 

BossHawgzGoinHam

November 28th, 2017 at 8:11 PM ^

You can't be serious! It is respectful when your teams pours it's heart out in a game only to be fucked over multiple times? The point is the Michigan brand is huge and to me from a business approach is equal to or bigger than the B1G itself. We also shouldn't have to overcome poor officiating on a regular basis. I mean the MSU game was my last game where i could deny this bs anymore. Watching their players shove our players over and over after the whistle right in front of the refs was enough for me.

skegemogpoint

November 28th, 2017 at 8:31 AM ^

while I don't think this merits threatening to leave the conference, I do believe it's Warde Manual's job to put together a thoughtful, comprehensive study replete with statistics of UM and other conference foes and make a presentation to the B1G office. This is not just a whining fan base. It's systemic tipping of the scales in the opposition's favor and I believe it is being done consciously.

1WhoStayed

November 28th, 2017 at 3:59 AM ^

This may be a fair trashing of the state of the game, but Harbaugh is probably 3 plays from being 4-2 against rivals and with 1 playoff appearance under his belt.
Yes, I get that fair calls may have changed a few of these outcomes, but my point is we can win regardless. And we will.
Leaving the conference is silly talk. Football is king, but there is a whole department to consider. I know it’s just frustration talking, right!?
Loving what the future has in store. Go Blue!

BossHawgzGoinHam

November 28th, 2017 at 4:49 AM ^

Not at all this is far from crazy talk. All our other programs could stay in the B1G if they chose to do so. Just move our football program I mean ND does the exact same thing. I don't think it's a secret that our football team in the most popular team within Michigan Athletics.

 

Crazy to me is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. It would be 1 thing if we get hosed once every 4 or 5 games. This is happening literally almost every game and especially happening in every big game we are playing in. Crazy to me would be to have a program with the allure of Michigan Football and simply let a biased conference taint multiple seasons in a row. I mean people’s livelihoods depend on their performance when they are coaches. For instance if you worked or was subcontracted under a company and they constantly gave you the shit end of the stick wouldn’t look to seek employment elsewhere? This is not about quitting or complaining it’s just simple math. The odds are stacked against us and those odds seem to get steeper with every season.

 

Harbaugh pissed some people off within CFB I think that much is obvious. I mean the shit he did the past 3 years literally changed CFB in a lot of ways. He literally took advantage of every loophole he could find and made the NCAA and SEC coaches get off their ass and do something about it. I mean whatever he did was good enough to piss off Saban and almost instantly after he complained rules started to change and new rules installed. The system is not fair and that’s ok, but constantly cheating to make a team lose Is wrong! I mean we obviously didn’t need any help with losing this season we shot ourselves in the foot over and over and it seemed every time shit started clicking some zebra was throwing flags left and right.

Lastly, should we have to play flawlessly game in and game out to overcome bs calls made by officials more than likely on purpose? Fair play goes a long ways and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to realize something is not right. Those statistics alone are enough. Then set down and watch the last 2 seasons of Michigan Football and eventually your left with WTF is going on thought. Michigan Football is not defined by the B1G Conference, it’s defined by how many games it wins! If we are constantly always fighting a uphill battle and we make a few mistakes here and there how in the hell do we ever expect to seriously compete for a conference championship or a national championship?