OT: Wings-Aves
For anyone that stayed up to watch the Wings-Aves game last night, what did you think of Roy's idea to pull the goalie with 3 mins left down 1-0. NBCSN guys said he does things like this regularly, but 30 seconds into this one, Helm scored.
He kept the goalie out at that point and our own (former) Luke Glendening netted the 150 footer, giving the Wings the 3-0 win.
Just curious what other hockey fans thought of that decision.
February 6th, 2015 at 8:54 AM ^
I thought it was great for the Wings!
Seriously, if it works, Roy is a hero. If it doesn't work, they were losing anyway. Granted, three minutes is a long time to play without a netminder, but what did he really have to lose?
February 6th, 2015 at 8:55 AM ^
As a former goalie I'd say depends on the situation. If he felt his team was carrying the play and had a faceoff in the Wings' zone, might be a good time to get aggressive.
I think a lot of coaches wait too long for that perfect timing of where the puck is and sometimes only get a minute or so with the extra attacker.
February 6th, 2015 at 8:56 AM ^
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February 6th, 2015 at 9:58 AM ^
Well, Gustavsson won't be back.
I still think Mrazek needs some work as a backup to become more consistent. He has some ridiculous games where you think he's clearly better than Howard, but then he'll lay an egg in the next couple games. Plus I'd rather have two good tenders than one considering Howie's injury history and also given Babcock's riding the hot hand.
I definitely think they can get to the Cup, but the West is a better conference and if we had to play one of the top 5 or so, I wouldn't like our chances without home ice.
February 6th, 2015 at 11:50 AM ^
I think we would be okay against the West in the final. Detroit is 11-2-1 (John Cooper special) against the West this year with wins over Chicago, St. Louis, and Nashville.
February 6th, 2015 at 8:57 AM ^
I don't know if the NBCSN guys mentioned what the FSD guys did, that 4 out of the last 5 times the Avs have pulled their goalie they've tied it up. When you're that good, you might as well. That means 4 of the last 6 times they've pulled their goalie they've scored. If pulling your goalie at 3 mins left means odds like that it's absolutely worth it (probably isn't that high, small sample size, etc., etc.)
If you wait to pull your goalie in the last minute and a half, sometimes you never get the chance to or you waste half of that time. If you've got 3 minutes left and get a good opportunity, you might as well.
February 6th, 2015 at 8:56 AM ^
I mean 3 minutes is way to early to pull your goalie in a 1-0 game. 2-0, 3-0 ok thats cool, but 1-0?? You are one shot away from tieing and going to OT, why risk that with 3 minutes to go.
After the first Empty Net goal, just thought he was being aarogant then. But Ill take it, Glendening and Helm deserved those goals too....
February 6th, 2015 at 10:49 AM ^
Personally I think coaches always wait too long to pull goalies. I like the aggression with pulling the goalie earlier, you have to do it at some point most likely may as well give them enough time so they dont have to force terrible shots. And keeping the goalie out after you score is just him trying to win the game and not quitting. Putting the goalie back in down 2-0 is just quitting on the game basically.
February 6th, 2015 at 9:00 AM ^
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February 6th, 2015 at 9:02 AM ^
February 6th, 2015 at 9:05 AM ^
It's not too early at all in my opinion. I've coached, and been a part of staffs at every level, and I'm definitely in the camp of aggressive moves when it comes to pulling the goalie. It worked a lot for them last year but this year not as much.
My thinking is if you're going to do it with 1- 1:30 left why not do it with 3 minutes left? Gives you a couple more opportunities to get scoring chances. So what if they score the empty netter with 2 minutes to go instead of 20 seconds, you still will have let it up.
I'm also in the camp of pulling the goalie if you're on the PP with less than 7 minutes to go if you're down by 2 or more. More often than not even if you don't score they have a slim chance of getting an empty netter. I believe there is a team in europe that pulls their goalie every time they get a 5 on 3.
February 6th, 2015 at 10:54 AM ^
love that idea! Make it a 6-on-3, seems very likely to generate quality scoring chances with that advantage. 5-on-3's are relatively rare but I would love to see that happen in an NHL game
February 6th, 2015 at 9:16 AM ^
February 6th, 2015 at 9:20 AM ^
The Avs were winning two-thirds of the faceoffs, and they weren't getting good shots off against Mrazek, so why not try pulling the goalie? I wonder why teams don't do this more often. And I don't even like Roy, although I respect the guy's career.
In hindsight it may look like a mistake, but with the data he had, I don't fault him for the decision. Not all gambles pay off, but it wasn't a bad gamble in my eyes.
(Great game, btw. Reminded me of the rivarly from 20 years ago at points.)
February 6th, 2015 at 9:54 AM ^
The Wings fans took over that arena. Loved Riggy getting into it.
February 6th, 2015 at 9:22 AM ^
Roy's reasoning is what's the difference? Losing by 1-0 or 3-0 still equals zero points. It's typical for him -- the local newscasters don't seem to comment because it's so typical.
I did enjoy seeing and hearing all the Red Wings fans in the crowd tonight!!! The Caliradans have officially jumped off the bandwagon!
February 6th, 2015 at 9:24 AM ^
I usually am a big fan of aggresive coaching and against most teams I would like the move to increase your chances to score a goal as much as possible. But against the wings, who have shown to be so good against the penalty kill (i.e.,an extra man against them) I thought 3 minutes was early and gave the wings a pretty good change to score a goal
February 6th, 2015 at 9:31 AM ^
I think it's the right move. Depends on how good you are though. If you don't have a team capable of controlling the puck for a majority of that 3 minutes even with an extra man, than it's not a good decision. If your team is good enough though, go for it. It'll wear down the opposition and if you can keep them out of the goal, they'll be dog tired within that last minute.
February 6th, 2015 at 9:39 AM ^
You need a goal, pull the goalie. If you do it at 3 minutes and you get scored on in the first 30 seconds, the only thing you have lost is the potential to have played 5 on 5 for 2 minutes (3 minutes to 1 minute) and then have pulled the goalie in the remaining minute still down one, assuming you didn't score. That said, you were scored on within that 1st minute so if things went the same way you would have just lost the game in that last minute anyway. At least at 3 minutes you can keep the goalie out and hope for 2 goals. 2:30 is generally about when you'd pull the goalie down two. I don't think it really makes a big difference either way. It's really just the increased odds of more time with the extra man + more opportunties with the man advantage minus the odds of scoring with more time on 5 on 5 and more chances for the other team to score on you.
February 6th, 2015 at 9:56 AM ^
February 6th, 2015 at 9:44 AM ^
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February 6th, 2015 at 9:50 AM ^
February 6th, 2015 at 9:53 AM ^
February 6th, 2015 at 1:57 PM ^
Not as meh as you JACK.
February 6th, 2015 at 9:51 AM ^
I feel like sometimes Babcock waits a little too long to pull the goalie, but I also think three minutes is a bit too soon. But, it was a regular season game for a team that's going to need to take some chances to make the playoffs, and against a team I'm sure the coach despises. Not a terrible decision.
February 6th, 2015 at 9:53 AM ^
Roy is probably most well known for this but Babcock has put the extra attacker on "early" too. If you're down two you should be looking to pull sometime in the last 5 minutes, and if you're down only one I don't think 2:30 minutes out is unreasonable.
NHLers are so athletic and great skaters now that adding an extra attacker really makes it tough for defense to carry possession out of the offensive zone, and if all they can do is dump/ice it, there's not as much risk. Especially in the regular season, you want to force overtime just so you can get a point.
This is all situational of course. As mgob-rad mentioned the Wings are great at winning and holding possession so the risk is much higher. But I think in general it's a smart move.
February 6th, 2015 at 10:00 AM ^
I'm okay with Patty's decision but SO happy it blew up in his face. I dislike that wife beater more than Urbs.
I check the conference standings frequently and am amazed how well this team is doing. I would have thought they are two big players (Dman and sniper) away from a serious run. With the trade deadlines coming up soon, I wonder if they should mortgage any of their future for trade bait. I have 100% trust in Babcock whatever is done.
Babcock - greatest coach in any sport in recent Detroit history
Patty Roy - yuck
Shout out to Luke G. for another goal : )
February 6th, 2015 at 10:23 AM ^
done great things. You think he's better than Scotty Bowman?
February 6th, 2015 at 10:38 AM ^
/s
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February 6th, 2015 at 11:52 AM ^
or I should say, "That's not my cocaine, that's my son's cocaine" Wayne Fontes.
Greatest. Coach. Ever
/s (as if this is needed /s)
February 6th, 2015 at 5:31 PM ^
But he also had many, many HOFers. Babcock's cupboard hasn't been empty but I do give him the nod for what he does with good talent.
Toe Blake is the standard according to Scotty.
February 6th, 2015 at 5:55 PM ^
I think the back half of the Red Wings consecutive playoff streak is one of the most remarkable feats in sports (and Babcock is primarily responsible for that).
February 6th, 2015 at 10:08 AM ^
coaching or luck but Helm being on the ice is not a time when I would have pulled the goalie. Granted the Aves have a lot of team speed but Helm is a good defensive forward too. Given that Roy had last change as the home team, that might be something I would have considered. But I've never competively played or coached the sport.
February 6th, 2015 at 10:43 AM ^
As a Wings fan who lives in Colorado, Patrick Roy was player I feared and respected. I always wished that he would have gone to the Wings instead of the Avs in '96. That would have made those Wing teams unbelievable!
Roy is totally unpredictable, but has a true passion for hockey, and his players play hard for him. Last night it was love/hate when he pulled the goalie early. That sort of move can get in your head, but alas, the Wings prevailed!
February 6th, 2015 at 10:45 AM ^
I absolutely love the call. I think he once pulled the tender with over half a period to play since the Avs were on the PP.
February 6th, 2015 at 11:21 AM ^
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February 6th, 2015 at 12:31 PM ^
I love how the Wings have been playing this season. Finally all those young guys who we have been painfully watching the last few years are coming through, along with, of course, our key veterans' play. It seems we will finally be back in the top-three seeds instead of the bottom-three, like we have been seeing lately.
February 6th, 2015 at 4:48 PM ^
Anyone else excited about the alum game between the Wings and Avs before next years outdoor game? I'm pretty sure they will go easy at it but there is still some bad blood. Maybe one wayward check and we're having another goalie fight. Well I can hope.