OT: Who Should Claim UM Alumni Status

Submitted by Commie_High96 on April 23rd, 2015 at 11:38 AM

So posts on another thread inspired me to post this as I have wondered about it for a while. To be considere a UM Alumni, do you have to have graduated from UM?  I myself had about 50% of my undergraduate credits from UM, but I graduated from another school (grew up in Ann Arbor, had to leave).  I have never been comfortable saying I am an alumni from UM.   We certainly consider athletes who don't graduate alumni.  The UM Alumni Association will take anyone who wants to write a check as a member.  

Comments

Danwillhor

April 23rd, 2015 at 1:36 PM ^

IMO, if 50%+ of your credits toward your diploma came from UM (or any school) you can easily call yourself an alum. Technically, if any did you can. I'd just go the route of what institution have me most of my graduating credits/work. Finally, I wouldn't care if a guy that spent a semester at a school called himself an alum of that school haha. If they'd take your money from the basis of having once attended, it's fair game in my eyes.

LSA Aught One

April 23rd, 2015 at 11:43 AM ^

This one is hard for me.  The purist in me says, "If your diploma doesn't say University of Michigan, you aren't an Alum."  The fan in me says "We're all in this together."  The prick in me says, "You went to DEARBORN?!  Don't go telling everyone you went to Michigan if you actually went to DEARBORN."

This has always been a difficult topic.  I'll hang up and listen.

ijohnb

April 23rd, 2015 at 12:01 PM ^

understand that position, or why any Michigan graduate would advance it. UM-Dearborn and UM-Flint are not two year correspondence schools, the are not community colleges.  Many of the students at both schools can and/or do get admitted to Ann Arbor but attend the regional campuses for reasons unrelated to academics.  It is awesome that the University of Michigan has such a statewide footprint and I don't understand why any graduates of the school speak to disparage any others.

Sommy

April 23rd, 2015 at 9:02 PM ^

Ha, try asking a current UM-Dearborn student what they think about how their school compares to UM-AA.

"Whether you go to Dearborn or Ann Arbor, your degree just says 'The University of Michigan.' " (nevermind that it's obvious where you went when the diploma says that your degree was awarded by CASL instead of LS&A)

"UM-Dearborn kids are actually smarter because they're paying less for tuition."

"Yeah, it's the same mascot, we're just a satellite campus!" (even though UM-Dearborn's mascot was the Wolves until like five years ago)

I enjoyed my first two years at Dearborn, but I've never met so many needlessly insecure people in my entire life. I'm glad I transferred and finished up at Ann Arbor.

SAMgO

April 23rd, 2015 at 12:13 PM ^

I don't understand this. Dearborn and Flint are completely different schools. The quality of the student body, difficulty of classes, and the professors are all totally different. I don't see how you can just say they're all the same school and anyone who went to Flint or Dearborn is a Michigan alum. It's a completely different experience and education.

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JamieH

April 23rd, 2015 at 1:00 PM ^

because we ALL know there aren't special admissions standards for athletes, so pulling some failed athletes out and using them as an example of the admissions standards of U of M is TOTALLY legit. TOTALLY. 

ijohnb

April 23rd, 2015 at 1:05 PM ^

there are special admission standards for athletes?  What about the Michigan difference?  I thought Michigan was different.  Are you saying that Jim Harbaugh was right about Michigan?

What was everybody so mad at him for then?

ijohnb

April 23rd, 2015 at 1:14 PM ^

not really after this exchange.  This is the biggest collection of self-important knobs I have ever seen.  I was happy with my education before today, and generally got along with pretty much all of my friends/colleagues etc. that went to Ann Arbor, now I am actively happy that I chose not to go to Ann Arbor if this is what AA is all about.

I haven't really seen this side of Michigan students before.  Pretty ugly.

Tha Stunna

April 23rd, 2015 at 2:55 PM ^

Going to a less accomplished school does not make you stupid or a bad person or a failure in life.  However, it's foolish to claim that because some students at a school (including you) could have gone to a higher-level school, all students at both schools are therefore equivalent.

What matters more than the name of a school is what a person accomplishes there.  Still, if you're relying on UM-Dearborn or Flint to have the same type of name recognition as Ann Arbor, you will be sorely disappointed unless you just say "Michigan" or "U of M".

SAMgO

April 23rd, 2015 at 1:00 PM ^

And the same school as Larry Page and Stephen Ross. If you went to Dearborn or Flint, then you didn't go to the same school as these people. I don't see how that's debatable or controversial.

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HarbaughToMichigan

April 23rd, 2015 at 1:40 PM ^

Ha.  Good strawman.  I think we all know athletes aren't in the same boat as the rest of us.  For you... I guss you should have tried a little bit more in high school.  What is your excuse for only getting into a regional campus?  Didn't try very hard in high school?  Or the ole' "expenses" excuse?

MGoBender

April 23rd, 2015 at 8:37 PM ^

As someone who went to UMFlint and UM Ann Arbor, I speak from experience:  The difference in student body academic preparedness and difficulty/rigor of classes is huge.  The Ann Arbor campus is much "better" in these metrics.  That doesn't mean a highly motivated and intelligent person cannot get an amazing education from the satelites, but anyone who has been to both would attest to the difference in the average student and the difference in the rigor of the classes.

I skated to a 4.0 at Flint and had to bust my ass harder than anything else in my life to get a 3.0 in Ann Arbor.

BlueRaines

April 23rd, 2015 at 12:39 PM ^

I assume that he means that it is much easier to get into UM-Dearborn or UM-Flint than Ann Arbor.  The schools do not have anywhere near the same admittance standards as UM-AA does.

I have experienced this personally as I did my undergrad in AA then went to Dearborn for my masters due to traveling for work and their online Graduate programs.

johnvand

April 23rd, 2015 at 12:40 PM ^

I take it to mean the competition level of fellow students, and it is correct.

Having spent one year at Dearborn, three years at Ann Arbor,  the level of difficulty in course work, and competition level amoung students is vastly different between the two campuses.  

Sommy

April 23rd, 2015 at 3:57 PM ^

Bingo.

I spent my first two years at UM-Dearborn and then transferred to finish my schooling at UM-AA. While I had some great professors and classmates at Dearborn, there is really no comparison. If it's offensive to some to consider the student body at one institution to be more intelligent (which is accurate; the admissions standards are not even remotely comparable), then at least acknowledge that the student body at UM-AA has significantly more diversity. The student body at UM-Dearborn is really, really homogenous.

hailtothevictors08

April 23rd, 2015 at 12:44 PM ^

Admission standards/ percentiles are way lower. This is not debatable. It is not about quality of character or suggesting you cant be successful from either, but AA has a much higher average academic level of incoming freshman. It isn't close 

maizenbluenc

April 23rd, 2015 at 2:03 PM ^

try the aggregate student body at Michigan scored higher on entrance exams and had higher high school GPAs on average than the students at Flint or Dearborn. Leave any discussion of intelligence or better / lesser student at the door, then your point isn't offensive.

jmblue

April 23rd, 2015 at 3:06 PM ^

I agree that intelligence is a sensitive matter, but I'm not sure why "better student" is.  They are two entirely different (though often correlated) concepts.

By definition, the best students get the best grades.  They may or may not be the most intelligent, but they performed better in the classroom.  If I had a B average in high school and another kid had an A average, he/she was a better student than me.  I may be equally or even more intelligent, but I didn't do my job as a student as well.

On the average, Michigan admits better high school students than U-M-Flint and U-M Dearborn do.  That's a straightforward observation.    

ijohnb

April 23rd, 2015 at 3:28 PM ^

but there are a lot of people on here that seriously don't have a clue what they are talking about.  People saying that UM-Flint in not "accredited."  It is one of the fastest growing universities in the midwest and its admission standards continue to rise.  It also has numerous highly rated graduate programs and really good professors.

I think everybody agrees that UM-Flint and Dearborn are not the same caliber of school that Ann Arbor, but they are part of the University of Michigan and accomplished schools in their own right and should be welcomed and applauded by Ann Arbor graduates.  Disparaging them or their graduates makes no sense.

dupont circle

April 23rd, 2015 at 3:53 PM ^

"but they are a part of the University of Michigan and accomplished schools in their own right"

These days I'd argue the satellite may harm more people than they help. 75% of the students accepted to Flint are not college ready. Thousands of people are paying $400 per hour for college when they should be at a community college for $100 per hour. 65% of the people at Flint never complete their degree. Numbers are similar at Dearborn. Fastest growing is not a good thing, it indicates the local economies are sagging and disadvantaged people are using grants and loans to pass their time sittting in classrooms, getting "taught" by adjunct faculty, and will likely default on their student loan payments. In short, most are getting financial ruin and an employment gap.

http://www.umflint.edu/analysis/common-data-set

http://umdearborn.edu/698097/

dupont circle

April 23rd, 2015 at 4:17 PM ^

Actually yes, I was dually enrolled in high school at a satellite. I speak on good authority and with all due respect, the satellites have more in common with a community college than Ann Arbor. I know quite a few satellite grads who intentionally buy the Michigan plate for their car (even though Flint and Dearborn versions are avail) and tell people they're "Michigan grads" and interlope in Ann Arbor. Literally anyone can get into Dearborn or Flint. Only the top <4% of students in the U.S. have a shot at Ann Arbor. To pretend they're anywhere near peers is laughably absurd.  Wannabes from satellites pretending they put in anywhere near the effort of an Ann Arbor student is offensive.

dupont circle

April 23rd, 2015 at 9:02 PM ^

Sorry, I would feel like the biggest loser going to UM-Dearborn and loading up my Facebook or instagram feed with pictures of me in front of Ann Arbor landmarks with "Go Blue!" tags, driving down for games in Ann Arbor student section t-shirts, buying the Ann Arbor plate. Like, you don't go to Ann Arbor, stop trying so desperately to be something you're not. No self-awareness.

UMgradMSUdad

April 23rd, 2015 at 11:28 PM ^

Talk about no self awareness.  Your posts in this thread are the poster child for lack of awareness.  Come on, tell the truth.  You must be a Spartan.  Just replace the UM Dearborn or Flint in your rant with Walmart Wolverine and you have their whine down perfectly.  

Btw, I'm a UM Flint grad and also a product of the Flint public schools.  I also have a PhD from one of the top five PhD programs in the country in my field.  

Gulogulo37

April 24th, 2015 at 7:22 AM ^

I went to U of M - Flint and I can hardly recall any conversations of people comparing the two schools or worrying about how they're perceived. I'm sure some do, but it's far from a common thing. All I can remember is someone asking what it says on the diploma.

There's a much bigger range in the quality of students at U of M - Flint. Yes, I met some people who should not be in college AT ALL. But, there are also plenty of smart people.

And yes, you can still go wherever you want after U of M - Flint if you work hard there. I got into Carnegie Mellon, I know one guy who's now studying at Cambridge, and another who got into Harvard for grad school (frankly, I was surprised at that one).

And a note on education quality. Just because someone's smart, it doesn't make them a good teacher. In fact, the two professors I had at Flint who were also employed at Ann Arbor were pretty bad. One guy was smart but totally neurotic and unorganized, and there was another woman who just ran a poor class. I can't actually remember specifically what she was screwing up so much besides taking forever to get any papers or tests back, but I do remember at least one class with a bunch of students being pissed at her effort. I also had a professor at Carnegie Mellon who was one of the two most well-regarded names in his field, but he was terrible at teaching the material to people who weren't already well-versed in it. And no, that wasn't me just not getting it. EVERYONE thought that.

03 Blue 07

April 23rd, 2015 at 4:29 PM ^

Are you serious?  Quality of the student body meaning competetiveness (academically) of the student body when compared to other student bodies, using metrics such as ...all of those used by colleges when determining admissions. ACT, SAT, GPA, extracurriculars, socio-economic status, race, location, etc. 

It is insulting, as an out-of-stater, that people are trying to compare the U of M Ann Arbor degree to a U of M Flint or Dearborn degree as if they are similar. They're not (on a macro level).

Compare a U of M A2 degree to Berkeley, UVA, UCLA, Wisconsin, fine. Those are peer institutions. No rational, logical, objective observer would say that U of M Dearborn or U of M Flint is a peer institution of U of M Ann Arbor. This isn't me "shitting" on these other satellite schools, it's me pointing out what I view as blindingly obvious facts. Itms not saying any individual who went to one or the other is better or worse; what I am saying is that, on a macro-level, there are significant differences in the academic achievement of the student bodies as measured by the criteria used to determine admissions by undergraduate institutions.